Orange Hate

Escher303

When I first got a mountain bike Orange were the dog's danglies and I loved my Clockwork c. 1993. I see comments all the time slating Orange these days. Why is that? Is it just fashionable to slag them off because they are/were so popular or are their bikes really that bad now? When did they stop being good and why? Victims of their own success?

Some people are snooty about Giant, Trek and Specialized but on the whole they make good bikes, is that not the case with Orange anymore?

nicklouse

generally they are too expensive.

you can get better bikes for less.

their owners keep on going on about how they are so good.

cubedean

I think its more so the owners than the bikes. I would love an orange....but for the money I couldn't justify it.

rockmonkeysc

Far too expensive and out dated designs.

kajjal

My 1996 orange c16r is a great XC bike and was the last one you could choose the groupset on. Rode it for many years in the wilds and it performed really well. Only this year I replaced it with a new bike. I have not ridden any recent Orange bikes so it is hard to comment.

Some people see value for money mainly in the spec of bike in at a given price range. By this measure big brand bikes can seem more expensive. A more pragmatic view is to judge a bike by how it rides rather than its spec alone which is how I bought my Carve Comp after a test ride. Other better spec'ed bikes and similar spec'ed bikes in the same price range did not feel as good to me. Also Specialized has a good warranty reputation and dealer network backup.

The key thing is to get the right bike for you

prawny

They are the iphone of bikes. You can do better for a lot less money and they have an almost religious following. They are also the default choice for fat rich types.

I'd love one. But I'm neither rich or particularly fat. So I'll make do with my value brands for now, and try one out when I'm 40ish.

Daz555

The bikes are ugly. Owners are a mixed bag.

rockmonkeysc

Even compared to Specialized, Giant, Trek etc Orange are poor value.
Their downhill bike is a very outdated design and even though its aluminium it's almost as expensive as a carbon santa cruz v10 and more than a carbon Evil undead and over a grand more than anything similar and thats as a frame only. Full builds are even worse value.

poah

overpriced fashion accessories for the middle aged man

just like other consumer items people pay for a name.

I've had two orange bikes - a C16R and an X2. at the time I wanted the orange because it was a local shop, wasn't too bad value and had cult appeal. I could also spec the full groupset which you couldn't on other makes.

no way I would buy one now at their prices.

Orange are not the only overprices bike out there though.

pesky_jones

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Their downhill bike is a very outdated design.

Everything else you say I agree with, but it does get me when people say this. It annoys me because, a) if it isn't broken - don't fix it, and b) People do, and don't tell me they don't, believe that gazillion pivot suspension systems are better, simply because they've been told they are? Can you tell me why multiple pivots and bar linkages or whatever are better then a single pivot? In practical terms as well, not in treks/giant/spesh words

poah

Pesky Jones wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Their downhill bike is a very outdated design.

Everything else you say I agree with, but it does get me when people say this. It annoys me because, a) if it isn't broken - don't fix it, and b) People do, and don't tell me they don't, believe that gazillion pivot suspension systems are better, simply because they've been told they are? Can you tell me why multiple pivots and bar linkages or whatever are better then a single pivot? In practical terms as well, not in treks/giant/spesh words

I don't get the outdated design comment either since the horst link is old too lol

they all have their pros and cons, no one system is best.

ilovedirt

Pesky Jones wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Their downhill bike is a very outdated design.

Everything else you say I agree with, but it does get me when people say this. It annoys me because, a) if it isn't broken - don't fix it, and b) People do, and don't tell me they don't, believe that gazillion pivot suspension systems are better, simply because they've been told they are? Can you tell me why multiple pivots and bar linkages or whatever are better then a single pivot? In practical terms as well, not in treks/giant/spesh words

Yeah, the design isn't outdated if it still works and rides well, which reportedly it did. However the amount they were charging for it given that there are very few complicated bits on it (and the fact that it took them forever to develop it when all they did was move the pivot a bit) was ridiculous. It's been discontinued now anyway.

I think the alpine 160 represents much better value, I really fancy one. It might 'only' be a single pivot, but if it rides well then what's the issue? Ppt he geometry looks spot on and it would make a good workhorse bike if it doesn't crack, given that there's only one pivot to maintain.

Mojo_666

I really like them TBH, I have never owned one and probably won't because they are shit value for money but I do like them, I want a crush right now but won't buy one.

adamfo

I've been riding road bikes all my life but only really became interested in MTB designs last year. Had a look at the various company websites and must admit I dismissed Orange within minutes without ever having seen one, ridden one or looked at the price list !

Ended up buying one of these. Cheaper, better component spec. refined Horst linkage and with some interesting engineering. The top tube for example, which has no welds on the upper rear stay and is a complex hydroformed shape.



Will Orange go the same way as TVR ? They don't seem to export much. Dangerous to be to reliant on one market and perhaps niche appeal.

rockmonkeysc

Pesky Jones wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Their downhill bike is a very outdated design.

Everything else you say I agree with, but it does get me when people say this. It annoys me because, a) if it isn't broken - don't fix it, and b) People do, and don't tell me they don't, believe that gazillion pivot suspension systems are better, simply because they've been told they are? Can you tell me why multiple pivots and bar linkages or whatever are better then a single pivot? In practical terms as well, not in treks/giant/spesh words

Nothing wrong with single pivots. My Nukeproof has a single pivot and it's the best bike I have ever ridden. The problems with Orange's rear suspension are that it pedals really badly and the pedal feedback is terrible, first time I tried a 322 I couldn't believe that a modern £5000 bike would kick back through the cranks like that.
There must have been something wrong because Orange have stopped making dh bikes now.

stubs

Nothing wrong with the hardtails I would happily have one but the F/S bikes again nothing wrong with them they just look grim and some of the welding jeez it must have been done by a blind man on a trampoline.

Kowalski675

nicklouse wrote:

their owners keep on going on about how they are so good.

Probably trying to convince themselves...

rockmonkeysc

stubs wrote:

Nothing wrong with the hardtails I would happily have one but the F/S bikes again nothing wrong with them they just look grim and some of the welding jeez it must have been done by a blind man on a trampoline.

Their factory uses the same welders and presses I used as an apprentice sheet metal fabricator. Its not high tech kit.

Davie mac

I love the orange patriot don't know why anybody would slate it,i work hard and don't spending a bit more for a bike that pleases me and meets my needs,think it may be a jealousy type thing cause most people have got big bills ect and have had to scrape the money up for their kona,live and let live

Northwind

It's not the bikes, it's the owners. They're all cunts, every last one of them.

And the price. Mine cost me under £500 used and at that price, the build quality's acceptable but it'd have been £2300 frame. £2300! For something welded by the work experience kid then painted in the dark. It rides well but despite the frame being the 4th version of a design they'd been making for the best part of a decade it still has glaring flaws- wheel fouls the frame at full travel, shock fouls the frame at some of the adjustment points, the suspension goes falling rate in the bottom end of the travel, and the headset gussets are too thin so they all bend without exception. Mine is a bit unusual in that it's still got the same number of welds it left the factory with. (you can usually tell the repair welds on an Orange, they'll be the tidy ones)

Still, I likes it. For £500.

Kowalski675

Northwind wrote:

(you can usually tell the repair welds on an Orange, they'll be the tidy ones)

Like you can tell a real Lancia Stratos from a kit car replica - the one that looks built like a kit car is the real one...

supersonic

Pesky Jones wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Their downhill bike is a very outdated design.

Everything else you say I agree with, but it does get me when people say this. It annoys me because, a) if it isn't broken - don't fix it, and b) People do, and don't tell me they don't, believe that gazillion pivot suspension systems are better, simply because they've been told they are? Can you tell me why multiple pivots and bar linkages or whatever are better then a single pivot? In practical terms as well, not in treks/giant/spesh words

Pedal kickback - that high and front pivot, especially in long travel form gives a big kick through the pedals on big hits. Plus the sus squats when braking. OK if you like that stuff. Most don't.

rockmonkeysc

The best thing about Orange bikes is you can identify one coming down a trail long before you see it. They sound like a sack of spanners.

HebdenBiker

Lol. You guys.

stubs

Saw a nice Orange P7 out this morning it had been painted a matt velvety black with orange Orange decals looked well smart.

rockmonkeysc

The P7 was actually a very nice ride. Shame about the ridiculous price tag.

mike hunts alpine

Single pivots can't be that bad if motocross bikes still use them. Obviously there's no pedaling involved but it can't be that bad if its still dominates the way motorbikes are built. Come to think of it I have never seen anything other than single pivots...
IMO people treat orange bikes like Marmite love it or hate it.

rockmonkeysc

It's not having a single pivot thats the problem.
If you look at mx bikes or most modern single pivot mountain bikes you will notice that they use a linkage to drive the shock and get a better curve to the shock rate.
The way that Orange lay out their single pivot means that it has a falling rate (very bad) and you get really bad pedal kick back from big hits.

fridgehq

I am just an old guy on a Proflex ( single pivot) nothing wrong with it but in my eyes the orange is just a similar copy of old 90 s Tech that said I have ridden modern stuff inc 29ers but still go back to the proflex it comes down to personal taste I suppose, the price is what I find extreme

kammybear

For me, the appeal of Orange is that the frames look so shit, it's almost sexy knowing your paying so much for it.

Seeing a fox fork on their frames really makes them look unique. Old and new tech coming together.

Would I pay brand new prices? Fuck NO!

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

If you look at mx bikes...you will notice that they use a linkage to drive the shock and get a better curve to the shock rate.

Yup, and rising rate linkages originated from the MX world (as did USD forks) before they ever crossed over to road bikes. MX bikes haven't used a cantilever design for decades (it simply wouldn't be practical with the amount of travel modern MX bikes have, even if for some strange reason you wanted to do it).