Orange Hate

steben

Ehhh watch the video then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlIYEdRFQu4

Kowalski675

steben wrote:

the welds look like they were done by a welder not a machine

They look like they do because they were done by a crap welder (or possibly his guide dog). Take a look at Racefit, GIA Engineering or Spondon to see what hand welding looks like when it's done by a master craftsman, rather than a gibbon.



http://racefit-legend.com/

steben

Fair play that's nice welding ! Bet they don't make many of those a week mind.
I'm off now on a night ride so nobody can take the piss out of my welds but I know my pivots wont come loose or fall out though ! (mates Cubes and Trek ) haha
That should keep this thread going for a while !!

Northwind

steben wrote:

Ehhh watch the video then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlIYEdRFQu4

Er, what? Read my post again.

supersonic

Welds can look ugly but be absolutely mechanically sound. That said, robot welding, when the machine is set up right, gives more predictable results time and time again.

Kowalski675

steben wrote:

Fair play that's nice welding ! Bet they don't make many of those a week mind.

Maybe not, but a completely hand built, all titanium, one-off Legend full system still costs less than an ally Orange frame.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

Welds can look ugly but be absolutely mechanically sound.

Welds can look beautiful too. I know which I'd rather have, lol.

poah

Angus Young wrote:

Pesky Jones wrote:

Anyway, the point is, they all really liked the welding on the patriot and thought it was cool. It seems mtbers don't like the welding because...

Maybe it's like an untrimmed woman! Some guys like it but most would prefer a well trimmed lady garden...

FPMSL - although TBF pussy is pussy 8)

poah

Kowalski675 wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Welds can look ugly but be absolutely mechanically sound.

Welds can look beautiful too. I know which I'd rather have, lol.

they could be stunning on the orange but I'd still not have one cause its a single pivot

ilovedirt

I don't know what you guys are talking about, all the oranges I've ever had, the welds have looked fine (it was no nicolai mind)... (not that you can see them once it's covered in mud anyway). Just ride your bikes and stop whinging...

Clank

supersonic wrote:

Welds can look ugly but be absolutely mechanically sound. That said, robot welding, when the machine is set up right, gives more predictable results time and time again.

As someone with a professional interest in this particular area: cobblers.

Setting the machine has little to do with it - repeatable parts are the most significant influence. A robot really struggles to cope with anything outside of 'the nominal' - it's big, it's orange, and it's dumb. Unless it's a Fanuc, a Motorman or a Kawasaki, in which case it's big, yellow or blue or white, and dumb. Yon human welder will accommodate gap and material thinning and joint misalignment. Best welds I've seen have been by hand. It's fairly typical for folk to blame the machine, especially when the parts that have gone in have been variable.

Ugly welds are an indication of lack of care - so what else have they been less careful about?. The welds may be perfectly functional, but bird-poo welds will be a mass of surface notches and edge undercuts where fatigue can precipitate. Ugly welds are more likely to indicate poor structural capability than a well formed and very repeatable weld. My customers have very, very strict standards on surface appearance because of the direct correlation to sub-optimal performance and service limitation - that kind of thing has consequences.

Just sayin'.

adamfo

Clank wrote:

Ugly welds are an indication of lack of care - so what else have they been less careful about?

Just sayin'.

Maybe having a 'liquid' lunch doesn't help quality control....

supersonic

I said can be - not always! And vice versa, especially when some grind and fill.

Merida for example have technicians that set up the machines and constantly oversee the operation - more automated than fully robotic.

YIMan

As the thread seems to be going in this direction, what statistics are there for weld failure v. "ugly" welding on Orange bikes? Please break down statistics for British v. foreign manufactured frames.

adamfo

Is this a machine weld ?



My Canyon frame seams fairly typical of mid-price Taiwanese made frames.

rockmonkeysc

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

Kowalski675

Clank wrote:

it's big, it's orange, and it's dumb. Unless it's a Fanuc, a Motorman or a Kawasaki, in which case it's big, yellow or blue or white, and dumb.

Shouldn't the Kawasakis be lime green, lol?

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

Much of the negative stuff in this thread sounds an awful lot like the kind of tosh people spout about iPhones – "people only but them because they're fashion victims", "over priced crap compared to X, Y or Z", "I'd never buy one due to this that or the other", "it's a religion" blah, blah, blah. If Orange really are as bad as some people are saying here why did mbr recently give Five 29S 8 out of 10? Not perfect, but far from the creaking anachronism some here would have us believe.

Kowalski675

Angus Young wrote:

iPhones – "people only but them because they're fashion victims", "over priced crap compared to X, Y or Z"

True.

adamfo

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

It's more than aesthetics, form follows function. Most mid-price and up mountain bike use extensive use of hydro forming to achieve higher stiffness to weight ratios.

YIMan

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

Much of the negative stuff in this thread sounds an awful lot like the kind of tosh people spout about iPhones – "people only but them because they're fashion victims", "over priced crap compared to X, Y or Z", "I'd never buy one due to this that or the other", "it's a religion" blah, blah, blah. If Orange really are as bad as some people are saying here why did mbr recently give Five 29S 8 out of 10? Not perfect, but far from the creaking anachronism some here would have us believe.

Just wait for it...some people here believe MBR are on Orange's payroll.....

rockmonkeysc

I remember the Specialized Hardrock getting top marks in mbr and mbuk.

mike hunts alpine

YIMan wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

Much of the negative stuff in this thread sounds an awful lot like the kind of tosh people spout about iPhones – "people only but them because they're fashion victims", "over priced crap compared to X, Y or Z", "I'd never buy one due to this that or the other", "it's a religion" blah, blah, blah. If Orange really are as bad as some people are saying here why did mbr recently give Five 29S 8 out of 10? Not perfect, but far from the creaking anachronism some here would have us believe.

Just wait for it...some people here believe MBR are on Orange's payroll.....

who shot JFK? Orange mtb ltd?

adamfo

Angus Young wrote:

If Orange really are as bad as some people are saying here why did mbr recently give Five 29S 8 out of 10? Not perfect, but far from the creaking anachronism some here would have us believe.

Which issue was the Five 29 tested in ?

I saw the 26" tested recently and the verdict seemed fair enough. Quote:

"As a UK-ready trail bike, the Orange Five is still one of the best, no-nonsense, durable rides on the market. However, the Five S is hampered by a heavier weight, no dropper post and an uncompetitive spec compared to its peers. Compounding its problems is a rear shock set-up that needs tuning."

Angus Young

adamfo wrote:

Which issue was the Five 29 tested in ?

Don't know the number but it was the one with New Zealand on the cover, I think.

adamfo

Angus Young wrote:

adamfo wrote:

Which issue was the Five 29 tested in ?

Don't know the number but it was the one with New Zealand on the cover, I think.

October issue. I'd downloaded a while back and forgotten to read it :roll:
Select slow download for free sample issue http://www.pdfmagazines.org/magazines/s ... -2013.html

Angus Young

That's the one.

Although downloads are undoubtedly convenient I do find that I either forget to read stuff or don't do 'cover to cover' as I do with physical magazines.

BigAl

mike hunts alpine wrote:

who shot JFK? Orange mtb ltd?

Precision assissination IIRC? So no, not Orange. They'd have used a musket (and missed)

Kowalski675

A blunderbuss, I would've thought.

Northwind

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

As above, it's a good indication of care- it's not the case that a good looking weld is always a good weld, but it's definitely more likely that a slapdash squinty erratic weld will be a bad weld. But also, you're paying top dollar for these frames, it's reasonable to expect a high quality of finish and craftsmanship. Erratic but functional finishing is more acceptable on a cheaper bike.

Re MBR- there's been a few reviews in the past that have made it easy to suspect bias... Memorable one was a £2000 full suss test. The Five S was within budget so they added optional extras that took it to about £2250, then in the review specifically recommended it because of those extras. Meanwhile, they criticised the under-budget Lapierre for poor brake pads, a £15 fix, even though it was about £450 cheaper, and slated the Trek for being just £50 more.

Or, a BOTY feature which went: "The brakes don't work, and the wheels are too weak and narrow, and it's flexy, and too expensive. 10/10!"