Orange Hate

BigAl

Northwind wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Are rough looking welds really such a huge issue?
I don't really understand people's obsessions with the aesthetics of bikes. I would rather ride mine than look at it.

As above, it's a good indication of care- it's not the case that a good looking weld is always a good weld, but it's definitely more likely that a slapdash squinty erratic weld will be a bad weld. But also, you're paying top dollar for these frames, it's reasonable to expect a high quality of finish and craftsmanship. Erratic but functional finishing is more acceptable on a cheaper bike.

Re MBR- there's been a few reviews in the past that have made it easy to suspect bias... Memorable one was a £2000 full suss test. The Five S was within budget so they added optional extras that took it to about £2250, then in the review specifically recommended it because of those extras. Meanwhile, they criticised the under-budget Lapierre for poor brake pads, a £15 fix, even though it was about £450 cheaper, and slated the Trek for being just £50 more.

Or, a BOTY feature which went: "The brakes don't work, and the wheels are too weak and narrow, and it's flexy, and too expensive. 10/10!"

Nail, head, hit!

Angus Young

Northwind wrote:

Re MBR- there's been a few reviews in the past that have made it easy to suspect bias... Memorable one was a £2000 full suss test. The Five S was within budget so they added optional extras that took it to about £2250, then in the review specifically recommended it because of those extras. Meanwhile, they criticised the under-budget Lapierre for poor brake pads, a £15 fix, even though it was about £450 cheaper, and slated the Trek for being just £50 more.

Or, a BOTY feature which went: "The brakes don't work, and the wheels are too weak and narrow, and it's flexy, and too expensive. 10/10!"

Congratulation for being the first to wheel out the conspiracy theory. I think you get some sort of prize for that.

rockmonkeysc

I wouldn't say that's a conspiracy theory. He just pointed out the facts of the test. Its unfair to have a bike in a £2k test with upgrades making it over budget and then criticise a bike under budget for not being as well equipped.

97th choice

But it's easier to dismiss things out of hand, if you call them a conspiracy theory. Regardless of how valid they might be.

Angus Young

97th choice wrote:

But it's easier to dismiss things out of hand, if you call them a conspiracy theory. Regardless of how valid they might be.

So, you know as an incontrovertible fact that mbr have an Orange bias... or is it just a theory?

rockmonkeysc

You cant argue against the fact that in that test they did give the Five an unfair advantage.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

You cant argue against the fact that in that test they did give the Five an unfair advantage.

I wouldn't like to comment either way without reading the whole test.

97th choice

Angus Young wrote:

97th choice wrote:

But it's easier to dismiss things out of hand, if you call them a conspiracy theory. Regardless of how valid they might be.

So, you know as an incontrovertible fact that mbr have an Orange bias... or is it just a theory?

Why don't you address the points raised regarding the test in MBR?

EDIT due to crossed posts: there's a link above if you haven't read it. But until you have you can't dismiss it as a conspiracy theory either.

Angus Young

Whatever the whole test may say, it's still a theory.

p.s. I don't see a link to the test.

97th choice

apologies, that's a link to the 29er test.

Angus Young

Phew, I'm not going mad, then!

rockmonkeysc

Angus Young wrote:

Phew, I'm not going mad, then!

You are trying to argue against Orange bikes being overpriced and poor quality.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Phew, I'm not going mad, then!

You are trying to argue against Orange bikes being overpriced and poor quality.

No I'm not. I'm questioning the mass hysteria.

97th choice

You're right, I'm barely able to function at the thought of accidentally buying one.

Angus Young

97th choice wrote:

You're right, I'm barely able to function at the thought of accidentally buying one.

adamfo

Here's a bike where the looks of hand welding have been accentuated. Raw finish and chunky welds. Not to keen on seeing welding on the top of the top tube though. Select HD and full screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0elaP_YYw

Angus Young

Saw that one yesterday and it occurred to me that they seem to be revelling in their chunky welds.

adamfo

Angus Young wrote:

Whatever the whole test may say, it's still a theory.

p.s. I don't see a link to the test.

http://www.mbr.co.uk/bikes/orange-five-s-review-2013/

I linked the full 29er group test in a previous post.

Do you work on the ostrich theory ?

rockmonkeysc

Angus Young wrote:

Saw that one yesterday and it occurred to me that they seem to be revelling in their chunky welds.

Aluminium welds are a lot more chunky than steel or titanium, it's unavoidable. The problem with Oranges welding is that its just untidy. My local shop sell Intense and the welding is very neat, really uniform and consistant. Intense have other problems, they cant make frames straight.

Angus Young

Why can't people who make bikes for 3 or 4K make nice smooth welds like Boardman can manage for 1K?

Angus Young

adamfo wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Whatever the whole test may say, it's still a theory.

p.s. I don't see a link to the test.

http://www.mbr.co.uk/bikes/orange-five-s-review-2013/

I linked the full 29er group test in a previous post.

Do you work on the ostrich theory ?

You mean the link to the mag download? Looked at that but they wanted my card details. If someone wants to give me something for nothing they don't need my card details. I declined.

adamfo

Angus Young wrote:

adamfo wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Whatever the whole test may say, it's still a theory.

p.s. I don't see a link to the test.

http://www.mbr.co.uk/bikes/orange-five-s-review-2013/

I linked the full 29er group test in a previous post.

Do you work on the ostrich theory ?

You mean the link to the mag download? Looked at that but they wanted my card details. If someone wants to give me something for nothing they don't need my card details. I declined.

No it's free, no card or registration required. Click 'download by Novafile' then Scrowl down page and select 'slow download'. The magazine download is in pdf form.

Angus Young

Ah, OK, thanks. I went to the link and ended up at a page where they wanted to register my card even though they were giving me something for free. Must have taken a wrong turn there.

Angus Young

Mmm... nope, doesn't like me. When I take that route it tells me that it's only downloadable by premium users. Never mind, I'm working my way through back issues of all the mags from my iPad so I'l come across that sooner or later.

scaley

adamfo wrote:

Here's a bike where the looks of hand welding have been accentuated. Raw finish and chunky welds. Not to keen on seeing welding on the top of the top tube though. Select HD and full screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0elaP_YYw

This looks much nicer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydz163IAYhs

rockmonkeysc

scaley wrote:

adamfo wrote:

Here's a bike where the looks of hand welding have been accentuated. Raw finish and chunky welds. Not to keen on seeing welding on the top of the top tube though. Select HD and full screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0elaP_YYw

This looks much nicer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydz163IAYhs

Are you sure? The welding on the Intense is definitely neater, there's just less of it on the Boardman so it's less noticeable.

adamfo

Angus Young wrote:

Mmm... nope, doesn't like me. When I take that route it tells me that it's only downloadable by premium users. Never mind, I'm working my way through back issues of all the mags from my iPad so I'l come across that sooner or later.

OK, I see from the download counter that quite a few people have followed the link. The daily bandwidth has been exceeded. Try again in a few days.

Northwind

Angus Young wrote:

I wouldn't like to comment either way without reading the whole test.

Ah, so dismissing it as a conspiracy theory wasn't commenting either way?

Angus Young

Northwind wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

I wouldn't like to comment either way without reading the whole test.

Ah, so dismissing it as a conspiracy theory wasn't commenting either way?

No, it wasn't.

adamfo

Here's an interesting video about frame stress analysis. Having full in house facilities means modifications are quickly done. Must be much more satisfying than being at the end of an extended supply chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08ie72PcTqc