Orange Hate

Angus Young

adamfo wrote:

OK, I see from the download counter that quite a few people have followed the link. The daily bandwidth has been exceeded. Try again in a few days.

Ah, you gave the secret away and now they've been swamped!

97th choice

Whilst spending time in the smallest room of the house I came across an old issue of mbuk (255 oct 2010). The five pro was their all mountain winner. However some of the comments are frankly fence sitting,

"the swing arm suspension also communicates with you directly through the pedals and brakes, stamp hard and it bites down into the trails with the back wheels instinctively, brake hard and it sits up, pushing the front wheel more firmly into turns and sliding the rear wheel sideways for a faster exit. That's the fans point of view - some will find the chain tug through the feet as the suspension compresses, the pro pedal demanding power bob, and loss of supple traction under high pedal and brake loads irritating"

Right.

poah

adamfo wrote:

No it's free, no card or registration required. Click 'download by Novafile' then Scrowl down page and select 'slow download'. The magazine download is in pdf form.

I'm blind I can't see it

misinformer

Having "Lurked" here for quite some time I have never really had the urge to post.

It seems to me here are a lot of "fanboy" brands and the FANS to go with them ,for some reason the UK cottage bicycle industry ,and that is all we have left now ,appear to put themselves a cut above the rest and their eager supporters also do the same.

Charge, Cotic ,Stanton etc to name a few all source their "tat" from overseas, yet try and portray it as the opposite, there's little to differentiate any of it .I can't recall ever seeing a thread with hate in the title of any of the other microbrands (Charge Cotic Stanton etc) ,yet a company (Orange) manufacturing a good quality product ,bought by many cyclists gets derided for a few bobbly welds and being expensive.

I read a blog by a Scot framebuilder who appeared to have aspirations on making frames ,production frames here in the UK. Reading between the lines he's kind of saying his product was not twice as good as a Taiwanese built frame ,text here http://www.shandcycles.com/2013/09/22/what-ever-happened-to-those-29ers/ so where does that leave us when a custom frame guy says "hey why buy British"

The above blog seems to indicate £1200 for a production item , a full suspension frame from Orange is around £15-1600 which makes it good value ! who does a UK made full suspension frame that's any good ,in fact who outside the fanboy culture does a UK frame that's any good ,of course my own opinion, . but from what I've read so far it seems Giant Trek and Specialized are perfectly safe knowing they make brilliant products at the right price

It's odd that there's actual "hate" towards a company making a product.

lawman

Oh don't get me started on Stanton, their customer service is shite.

Northwind

misinformer wrote:

Charge, Cotic ,Stanton etc to name a few all source their "tat" from overseas, yet try and portray it as the opposite

Your screen name is very appropriate, since this is just not true.

misinformer

You missed the point didn't you?

I'm guessing you own at least one of the 3 as "since this is just not true" must be based on something

Chunkers1980

What was the point?

rockmonkeysc

At least Orange don't invent their own standards like Giant do.

mike hunts alpine

Orange... But I like orange.

CitizenLee

Everyone who owns one loves them and I think that's all that matters really.

Can't admit to being a fan of their industrial / Mad Max aesthetics myself, but I certainly wouldn't turn one down.

Having said that, show me an early 90s P7 and I'd snap your arm off for it! LOVED those bikes as a kid!

Angus Young

CitizenLee wrote:

Everyone who owns one loves them and I think that's all that matters really.

^ The definitive statement in this thread.

97th choice

I think I might have to buy one now.

misinformer

Chunkers1980 wrote:

What was the point?

That a fan of a product will elevate it to some mythical status.

RockmonkeySC wrote:

At least Orange don't invent their own standards like Giant do.

For the money I payed to have fun on a bike, it wasn't a great deal, I don't need to worry about it ,in fact I see on the forum home page someone is so concerned they started an entire thread concerning themselves with how evil Giant also are!

nmdbase

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Saw that one yesterday and it occurred to me that they seem to be revelling in their chunky welds.

Aluminium welds are a lot more chunky than steel or titanium, it's unavoidable. The problem with Oranges welding is that its just untidy. My local shop sell Intense and the welding is very neat, really uniform and consistant. Intense have other problems, they cant make frames straight.

Nor can orange. 5mm is their tolerance in alignment.

Northwind

misinformer wrote:

You missed the point didn't you?

I'm guessing you own at least one of the 3 as "since this is just not true" must be based on something

It's based on those crazy inconvenient facts.

Cotic website: Exactly the opposite of what you claim: "Our frames are designed and developed entirely by us here in the UK, and then manufactured elsewhere. We basically do everything but the welding and painting. For the most part this means sourcing frames built to our designs by the great frame builders out in Taiwan. All our suppliers are truly world class, build bikes all day, everyday, and are brilliant at what they do."

Charge Bikes: Absolutely nothing implying they make them in the UK.

Stanton Bikes: "QUALITY FRAMES DESIGNED IN THE UK", again nothing to suggest they're made in the UK

Sorry dude, everyone knows you're talking absolute pish. Ironically, Orange are a bit closer to the wire on this, with their heavy union jack branding, "Halifax England", "handbuilt with pride", on taiwanese hardtails...

Angus Young wrote:

^ The definitive statement in this thread.

Nah, there's plenty of Orange owners who're not in love with them. Me frinstance

Angus Young

Northwind wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

^ The definitive statement in this thread.

Nah, there's plenty of Orange owners who're not in love with them. Me frinstance

Loving them is not the same as being in love with them. And I suspect it does apply to a good number of Orange owners.

Northwind

Yeah, most people with a decent, expensive bike would say they love it. But that's a far cry from "everyone who owns one loves them"

misinformer

Northwind wrote:

misinformer wrote:

You missed the point didn't you?

I'm guessing you own at least one of the 3 as "since this is just not true" must be based on something

It's based on those crazy inconvenient facts.

Cotic website: Exactly the opposite of what you claim

"Our frames are designed and developed entirely by us here in the UK, and then manufactured elsewhere. We basically do everything but the welding and painting. For the most part this means sourcing frames built to our designs by the great frame builders out in Taiwan. All our suppliers are truly world class, build bikes all day, everyday, and are brilliant at what they do."

Charge Bikes: Absolutely nothing implying they make them in the UK.

Stanton Bikes: "QUALITY FRAMES DESIGNED IN THE UK", again nothing to suggest they're made in the UK

I eagerly await your response, I'm sure you have tons of evidence for your ridiculous allegation

Angus Young wrote:

^ The definitive statement in this thread.

Nah, there's plenty of Orange owners who're not in love with them. Me frinstance

I think you have misunderstood me

At no point did I imply the three examples were made in the UK I implied they were tat imported from the far east and then had some perceived value generated by fanboy's . My implication was as microbrands they somehow try to elevate themselves above others by riding the jingoistic attitudes of some without doing much to earn it.

I find it peculiar the one company that does put a lot of effort into manufacturing a product domestically gets a bashing on quite a few different forums, Of course the other companies put effort in too but before you find another point to try and take issue with, sourcing a frame from YOAN getting your own stickers on it and box shifting isn't difficult.

If you read the article in the link even the framebuilder however says in a roundabout way ,if his product is not twice as good as the import option why try and charge twice the price

Angus Young

Northwind wrote:

Yeah, most people with a decent, expensive bike would say they love it. But that's a far cry from "everyone who owns one loves them"

But if we take the first part of the statement as a generalisation, which I think it was meant to be, the important part of the whole was, for me: "... that's all that matters really"

Northwind

misinformer wrote:

At no point did I imply the three examples were made in the UK

Here, let me help you with that:

"Charge, Cotic ,Stanton etc to name a few all source their "tat" from overseas, yet try and portray it as the opposite"

What's the opposite of sourcing from overseas?

While we're on the subject, what's the opposite of tat? Because that's a ridiculous comment to throw at these brands. Cotic's Soul and Stanton's Slackline are hugely respected bikes, Charge have a long line of top rated products. My Hemlock's a better designed and made bit of kit than my 224 so if Cotics are tat then what are Orange?

Oh, and incidentally:

misinformer wrote:

sourcing a frame from YOAN getting your own stickers on it and box shifting isn't difficult.

None of the manufacturers you list does that- they're all in-house, unique designs not just sticker jobs. (otoh it does seem that Orange have done just that with the Carb-o)


Mainly I just find it intensely funny that you make these observations about brand perception yet seem to miss how perfectly they apply to Orange.

cooldad

Thank god for that. I thought I was being left out as I have no tat.
I thought about one, once, but I heard it hurts.

misinformer

Northwind wrote:

misinformer wrote:

At no point did I imply the three examples were made in the UK

Here, let me help you with that:

"Charge, Cotic ,Stanton etc to name a few all source their "tat" from overseas, yet try and portray it as the opposite"

What's the opposite of sourcing from overseas?

While we're on the subject, what's the opposite of tat? Because that's a ridiculous comment to throw at these brands. Cotic's Soul and Stanton's Slackline are hugely respected bikes, Charge have a long line of top rated products. My Hemlock's a better designed and made bit of kit than my 224 so if Cotics are tat then what are Orange?

Oh, and incidentally:

misinformer wrote:

sourcing a frame from YOAN getting your own stickers on it and box shifting isn't difficult.

None of the manufacturers you list does that- they're all in-house, unique designs not just sticker jobs. (otoh it does seem that Orange have done just that with the Carb-o)


Mainly I just find it intensely funny that you make these observations about brand perception yet seem to miss how perfectly they apply to Orange.

Ah here we have it Cotic Fanboy

rockmonkeysc

misinformer wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

At least Orange don't invent their own standards like Giant do.

For the money I payed to have fun on a bike, it wasn't a great deal, I don't need to worry about it ,in fact I see on the forum home page someone is so concerned they started an entire thread concerning themselves with how evil Giant also are!

I have and stil do own various Giants. I really like the way they ride, their rear suspension is one of the best designs. If they didn't fit a crap fork with an odd sized steerer then I would be buying another one but I would want to replace the fork and will be left with a fork which will just end up as expensive scrap.
I have test rode a Orange 5, 224 evo and P7. I wouldn't buy any of them even if they were competitively priced.

cooldad

Obvious troll is obvious.

Northwind

misinformer wrote:

Ah here we have it Cotic Fanboy

Yeah, that must be it, everything I say is caused by fanboyism, after all as an Orange owner I could never possibly criticise... oh. Oh and the bits about Charge and Stanton must also be cause by my Cotic fanboyism. You're really not very good at this.

I'll leave you with some reviews of "tat" which apparently are all written by fanboys too.

http://dirt.mpora.com/featured/dirt-100 ... -soul.html
http://dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-100-201 ... -soul.html
http://dirt.mpora.com/news/2012-dirt-10 ... kline.html
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... -13-46784/
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... -12-46186/
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... -10-35899/
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... -12-46509/
http://dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-100-201 ... ender.html

adamfo

It's strange how people become attached to inanimate objects. Once bonded other brands becomes the devils spawn, their owners life members of the Jimmy Savile appreciation society.

This video should calm people down a bit, a nice smooth run http://www.imbikemag.com/issue26/?page=43

Kowalski675

adamfo wrote:

This video should calm people down a bit, a nice and smooth run http://www.imbikemag.com/issue26/?page=43

I wish I could ride like that, lol. Loving the way he lands that jump into a manual at 1:35. Flash git.

Ulysses

adamfo wrote:

It's strange how people become attached to inanimate objects. Once bonded other brands becomes the devils spawn, their owners life members of the Jimmy Savile appreciation society.

This video should calm people down a bit, a nice smooth run http://www.imbikemag.com/issue26/?page=43

I can totally ride like that ...... IN MY DREAMS!!!

Matt-r8

Getting my Orange 5 this coming weekend. I'll be sure to stick some photo's up for you boys and share the love. I'll even post a pic of it on the roof of my Bavarian estate car, sure some will just love that.
Some people need to get a grip. Don't like them, don't buy one, not sure why some feel the need to go on to every post about Orange 5's and have a little dig or snide comment.
There's lots of bikes I think are a bit shit and overpriced, but I wouldn't dream of going on to someones thread and start slagging their bike off.
The fat rich types with little skill, that some people have referred to can only be a good thing for the sport. It means there'll be a good supply of high quality bikes that haven't been abused, probably serviced and prepared by a reputable dealer as well. Works for me.