Chicken sings

Richmond Racer

That's Daniel Benson trying to implicate Hayman.

Seems that Rasmussan claimed yday that EPO was kept on the team bus during the 03 Vuelta - and Benson's tweet seems to be him insinuating that Hayman must be implicated as he was a domestique on the 03 Vuelta Rabo team.

(love the way that Benson's tweet, as well as referring to a current Sky rider i.e. Hayman, also refers to an 'ex-Sky DS (i.e. De Jongh) - no mention of the latter as a current Saxo-Tink DS. But that's Benson all over).

Richmond Racer

No tA Doctor wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

I don't have time for anybody that suddenly wants to come clean at the end of their career - no more than those who don't come clean in the middle of it, by their own choice or otherwise. I have less time for Armstrong - his was a reign of terror that hurt the lives of many - I found his bullying arrogance far more of a turn off than his doping and I hope he rots, penniless and alone. The man is disgusting.

I don't hold that much disdain for anybody else in the Peloton, a little less disdain for those who have at least been caught and served with bans. As for Rasmussen, its great that he's going to grass everybody else up (10 years too late) and reveal a few tricks of the trade. I don't like him anymore than I did a month ago though. He's had his career and basically retired, comfortably, before he could be a*sed to open his mouth. To a certain degree that makes me dislike him a little more. It's pretty Gutless.

^-^ Pretty good summary - well certainly sums up they way I feel towards drugs cheats in our sport, there is no place for it and no excuse in my mind that will ever convince me otherwise.

I'm not a big fan of the chicken, but his position was pretty similar to that of Floyd. Got banned, attempted a comeback, found he was toxic and nobody of any note would touch him. It's not right to say it was the end of his career though, firstly because he only officially retired after his confession, secondly because he's still trying to make a career in cycling management. His retirement as a rider was pretty much forced on him and he still stands to lose his career running a team.

Well, the Chicken ended up at a conti team - might not be his former heights, but he's had a ride ever since - and a team moreover that are not only giving him a nice soft berth during his ban but have also guaranteed him a DS role as soon as his ban's up. So he certainly has a career after his ban.

Perhaps more importantly he's trying to claim 5m euros from Rabo. The truth might set you free but the prospect of that kind of loot certainly loosens the tongue.

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

That's Daniel Benson trying to implicate Hayman.

Seems that Rasmussan claimed yday that EPO was kept on the team bus during the 03 Vuelta - and Benson's tweet seems to be him insinuating that Hayman must be implicated as he was a domestique on the 03 Vuelta Rabo team.

(love the way that Benson's tweet, as well as referring to a current Sky rider i.e. Hayman, also refers to an 'ex-Sky DS (i.e. De Jongh) - no mention of the latter as a current Saxo-Tink DS. But that's Benson all over).

Ta. To be honest, Sky set themselves up for it. It's not like Saxo have said "no one with histories".

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

That's Daniel Benson trying to implicate Hayman.

Seems that Rasmussan claimed yday that EPO was kept on the team bus during the 03 Vuelta - and Benson's tweet seems to be him insinuating that Hayman must be implicated as he was a domestique on the 03 Vuelta Rabo team.

(love the way that Benson's tweet, as well as referring to a current Sky rider i.e. Hayman, also refers to an 'ex-Sky DS (i.e. De Jongh) - no mention of the latter as a current Saxo-Tink DS. But that's Benson all over).

Ta. To be honest, Sky set themselves up for it. It's not like Saxo have said "no one with histories".

Ah, that old record...never gets worn out, does it?

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

Ah, that old record...never gets worn out, does it?

Nope.

Been questioning their hiring policy since late 2009 so it's a tough habit to break. But they make it so easy

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Ah, that old record...never gets worn out, does it?

Nope.

Been questioning their hiring policy since late 2009 so it's a tough habit to break. But they make it so easy

Yep, you are undoubtedly the winner. The argument, the battlefield, you win. It all yours.

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Ah, that old record...never gets worn out, does it?

Nope.

Been questioning their hiring policy since late 2009 so it's a tough habit to break. But they make it so easy

Yep, you are undoubtedly the winner. The argument, the battlefield, you win. It all yours.

I find it fascinating you get outraged at Basso and Spanish cyclists lying, but don't seem fussed about Sky doing it :P

Fun fact : My boss used to race against Hayman in Oz

blazing_saddles

Without the benefit of all this new info, were one to compile a UCI style list of suspected dopers,
I wonder where Hayman and De Jongh would have placed?
I suspect not very high.

It all boils down to how much emphasis Sky are likely to have placed on Chinese whispers and the speculation thereafter.
I don't think visiting places such as the Clinic, to research a prospective employee, features very high on Sky's must so list.

It's easy to forget how much time we, as a group, spend on this subject, and how much credence we often give to rumour or connections. Sky will not have had this luxury.

A forum will most definitely view the term "zero tolerance", to be far more all embracing, than the real world.

Macaloon

What's the WADA protocol on prosecuting high hypocrisy and newspeak? Surely the Basso/Fuentes case is of a different order than whether Sky quietly dropped their unrealistic zero-tolerance hiring policy without confessing this fact to Kimmage?

Also, predicting another farrago of drama from Mrs Froome concerning discharged batteries, or some such...

disgruntledgoat

Being on the same bus as some drugs is the same as taking them?

iainf72

Macaloon wrote:

What's the WADA protocol on prosecuting high hypocrisy and newspeak? Surely the Basso/Fuentes case is of a different order than whether Sky quietly dropped their unrealistic zero-tolerance hiring policy without confessing this fact to Kimmage?

Also, predicting another farrago of drama from Mrs Froome concerning discharged batteries, or some such...

What "Basso case" is that?

danlikesbikes

He's a scumbag for cheating & I don't like him anymore but hopefully some good may come out of what he tells the authorities. If it gets other cheaters out, even though his ban would be classed as a joke, it can only be a good thing.

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Ah, that old record...never gets worn out, does it?

Nope.

Been questioning their hiring policy since late 2009 so it's a tough habit to break. But they make it so easy

Yep, you are undoubtedly the winner. The argument, the battlefield, you win. It all yours.

I find it fascinating you get outraged at Basso and Spanish cyclists lying, but don't seem fussed about Sky doing it :P

Fun fact : My boss used to race against Hayman in Oz

I'm thrilled at that fun fact - perked me up no end.

Can you really not see why I'm unamused by people like Basso lying more than once under oath about not doping? Can you really not see why some people might be 'outraged' by that? And yet you think everything is equally comparable with that? How utterly bizarre.

Macaloon

iainf72 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

What's the WADA protocol on prosecuting high hypocrisy and newspeak? Surely the Basso/Fuentes case is of a different order than whether Sky quietly dropped their unrealistic zero-tolerance hiring policy without confessing this fact to Kimmage?

Also, predicting another farrago of drama from Mrs Froome concerning discharged batteries, or some such...

What "Basso case" is that?

Referencing your comment below where I assumed you were highlighting inconsistencies in Basso's story emerging from the Fuentes case. I must be mistaken because you seemed to be suggesting that Basso 'lying' over the extent of his involvement with the good doctor was similar to Sky possibly relaxing their hypocritical embrace of zero-tolerance; which would be ridiculous :P (Hope my multi-quote skills are up to this post)

iainf72 wrote:

I find it fascinating you get outraged at Basso and Spanish cyclists lying, but don't seem fussed about Sky doing it :P

rob churchill

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't recall Brailsford ever expressing Sky's zero tolerance policy in terms like 'we promise never to sign any rider if there is the slightest chance that he might at some future date turn out to have ridden on the same team as some dopers'.

So how do we get from; 'what Chicken says implies that Hayman was probably at least aware of doping at Rabo', to 'Sky are lying' ?

None of us have any way of knowing what was said when it was Hayman's turn to talk to Brailsford and Steve Peters in the recent Sky internal doping interviews, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something along the lines of "I've never doped. When I was at Rabo a lot of the riders were openly injecting stuff but I didn't want anything to do with it and I didn't think it was exactly my place to enquire too closely about what was in the vials." If so, is it really a breach of Sky's policy to keep him on the team?

danlikesbikes

No tA Doctor wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

^-^ Pretty good summary - well certainly sums up they way I feel towards drugs cheats in our sport, there is no place for it and no excuse in my mind that will ever convince me otherwise.

I'm not a big fan of the chicken, but his position was pretty similar to that of Floyd. Got banned, attempted a comeback, found he was toxic and nobody of any note would touch him. It's not right to say it was the end of his career though, firstly because he only officially retired after his confession, secondly because he's still trying to make a career in cycling management. His retirement as a rider was pretty much forced on him and he still stands to lose his career running a team.

I personally don't care if his retirement was forded on him or not & I stand by my previous statement (above) there is no place for drugs cheats in our sport end of argument. I have said that it is good that he is cooperating with the authorities unlike some of the other cheating scum out there. He is still a cheat & that is all there is to it no excuses, no BS like everyone else was doing it as that just enforces the reason for cheating to continue. To those outside of cycling see it as those people cheating, getting away with it on the basis that its acceptable as everyone was doing it. If thats the case then its a level playing field so cut it out and level the playing field that way.

Sorry but its my opinion & you will never change that. As for his life outside of cycling I would like to think that any major sponsor would consider him toxic due to his past and ignore him.

Gazzetta67

http://nos.nl/video/482051-hele-intervi ... ussen.html

Sorry if this has been already posted - Rasmussen interview in english on dutch TV if anyone interested.

thomthom

Great interview.

Jez mon

Without wishing to accuse a well respected forum member of trolling...someone is definitely pushing some buttons marked Sky, and some posters are nipping at the bait!

The interview is interesting, when a rider talks like that you can almost see the weight being lifted off their shoulders.

LeicesterLad

Jez mon wrote:

Without wishing to accuse a well respected forum member of trolling...someone is definitely pushing some buttons marked Sky, and some posters are nipping at the bait!

The interview is interesting, when a rider talks like that you can almost see the weight being lifted off their shoulders.

I don't think that is entirely the case. There is a hell of a lot of '100% disgusted by every foreign doper in existance but 100% defensive of anybody who even just pays a Sky subscription fee' that goes on here...

For instance, those callng out Basso for his lies but still defend Sean Yates like he's some sort of god, even after his remarkably pathetic 'I saw nothing, what does doping mean?' crap..

Richmond Racer

Jez mon wrote:

Without wishing to accuse a well respected forum member of trolling...someone is definitely pushing some buttons marked Sky, and some posters are nipping at the bait!

The interview is interesting, when a rider talks like that you can almost see the weight being lifted off their shoulders.

You're right, of course, and not just that particular member. I'm one who nips at the the bait, so I could just try and hold off a bit more, knowing what its purpose is, and save some energy for more fruitful debate.

ocdupalais

LeicesterLad wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

..someone is definitely pushing some buttons marked Sky, and some posters are nipping at the bait.

I don't think that is entirely the case. There is a hell of a lot of '100% disgusted by every foreign doper in existance but 100% defensive of anybody who even just pays a Sky subscription fee' that goes on here...

For instance, those callng out Basso for his lies but still defend Sean Yates like he's some sort of god, even after his remarkably pathetic 'I saw nothing, what does doping mean?' crap..

The Team Snide brigade are generally a more sophisticated form of troll - so much so that it may require a new equally more refined definition. They are the same bunch in the playground that denounced anything popular because it was popular; rather than it actually intrinsically lacking any credentials.

When I get wind of an Italian/Spanish/Any of Those Other Swarthy Type teams drawing a line in the sand/sticking their heads above the parapet/Any Other of Those Silly British Sayings... coming up with something AT ALL that gives the impression that they're not just waiting for every other team to do something before they sheepishly make half-baked noises about how dreadful all this doping is and something must be done about it... Then maybe I might start spreading the love a bit more.

And I'm yet to ever meet anyone who slags off Basso "The Still Present and Unrepentant Giro Winning/ Tour Podium-er" but defends Yates "The Once TdF Stage Winning Solid Domestique" - who dat?

For what it's worth: yes, I have a Sky subscription but am always looking for an alternative way to get HD quality racing. I hate the Sky Group and their Murdoch influence.
There are lots of distinct issues that regularly seem to get homogenised when it comes to Sky...

iainf72

The chicken say the 2004 Danish olympic cycling squad doped at the games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_at ... cs#Cycling

kanto

It was really interesting viewing that NOS interview, so thanks for posting. I used to love watching Rasmussen, but deep down I guess I always kind of knew that he was doping. As a person, he always seemed quite a shifty character in interviews. Still, it was exciting to watch his long solo breaks, dual with Contador. I just wonder how good he was without doping, as it seems his program was all about peaking/doping for the TDF. He was obsessive about everything, and so dedicated to anything that he perceived to improve performance. Stripping paint off the frame, only one water bottle, his own weight. I guess he basically tried anything to maximize his performance.

lloyd_bower

kanto wrote:

It was really interesting viewing that NOS interview, so thanks for posting. I used to love watching Rasmussen, but deep down I guess I always kind of knew that he was doping. As a person, he always seemed quite a shifty character in interviews. Still, it was exciting to watch his long solo breaks, dual with Contador. I just wonder how good he was without doping, as it seems his program was all about peaking/doping for the TDF. He was obsessive about everything, and so dedicated to anything that he perceived to improve performance. Stripping paint off the frame, only one water bottle, his own weight. I guess he basically tried anything to maximize his performance.

Yeah, good link. Nice to see someone mentioning other names, slight chink in the omerta.

thomthom

TOP.

Might as well bring this one back as this is going to be interesting..

Hesjedal..
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ng&act=url

thomthom

Should have been kicked out twice during the Tour 2005 but UCI kept him the race after discussion with Leinders and Rabobank.
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 05&act=url

thomthom

Let me know if there is something messed up in the translatations. They should be readable.

dish_dash

ThomThom wrote:

TOP.

Might as well bring this one back as this is going to be interesting..

Hesjedal..
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ng&act=url

very interesting... is this the first serious allegation against Ryder? Do we assume he was all reformed by the time he won the giro...

Richmond Racer

dish_dash wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

TOP.

Might as well bring this one back as this is going to be interesting..

Hesjedal..
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ng&act=url

very interesting... is this the first serious allegation against Ryder? Do we assume he was all reformed by the time he won the giro...

There were murmurings a few months ago on Twatter, partly driven by The Hog making not-so-veiled innuendo re Ryder in tweets aimed at JV. I think most people just shrugged and dismissed it as The Hog being The Hog - and because generally JV is popular so no one really made a meal out of it.