Chicken sings

LeicesterLad

inkyfingers wrote:

Frenchie, can you honestly say that Contador has ever looked quite as dominant since his return from suspension? 2007-20011 he was simply riding away from everybody on summit finishes, never to be seen again but now anymore. Either he's got worse or everybody else has got better.

I'm not wanting to have an argument, i'm not Bertie hater, but to me it does seem quite striking. He won the Vuelta last year because he was smarter and braver than J Rod, whereas before he's usually won by just climbing and TTing better.

To be fair to Contador, he had no race days for 6 months, came back to the Eneco Tour and then straight into the Vuelta. He was bound to be off the pace somewhat surely? The real test will be how he performs this year.

rick_chasey

First gt after a ban is always tough. Not sure you can make a like for like comparison yet.

inkyfingers

That's a fair point, had forgotten he only came back in August.

frenchfighter

inkyfingers wrote:

Frenchie, can you honestly say that Contador has ever looked quite as dominant since his return from suspension? 2007-20011 he was simply riding away from everybody on summit finishes, never to be seen again but now anymore. Either he's got worse or everybody else has got better.

I'm not wanting to have an argument, i'm not Bertie hater, but to me it does seem quite striking. He won the Vuelta last year because he was smarter and braver than J Rod, whereas before he's usually won by just climbing and TTing better.

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

He was won a MTF in his first race this year.

I think all other GC riders would be happy with that. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins Oman (if he wants to) and wins the Tour and the Vuelta this year.

The guy was and still is the best GT rider of his generation.

inkyfingers

frenchfighter wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Frenchie, can you honestly say that Contador has ever looked quite as dominant since his return from suspension? 2007-20011 he was simply riding away from everybody on summit finishes, never to be seen again but now anymore. Either he's got worse or everybody else has got better.

I'm not wanting to have an argument, i'm not Bertie hater, but to me it does seem quite striking. He won the Vuelta last year because he was smarter and braver than J Rod, whereas before he's usually won by just climbing and TTing better.

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

He was won a MTF in his first race this year.

I think all other GC riders would be happy with that. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins Oman (if he wants to) and wins the Tour and the Vuelta this year.

The guy was and still is the best GT rider of his generation.

Read my post again, I wasn't arguing about any of that.

He won the Vuelta last year in some style, but he was not as dominant on the climbs as he was pre ban.

As I said above, having got my years mixed up i'd forgotten he only came back in August 2012, so it's perhaps understandable that he wasn't at his best, we shall see.

As I said, i've nothing against him. He's a very exciting rider, but I trust him as much as I trust any other pro cyclist.

Richmond Racer

Mr Danish Cycling Union Jesper Worre is putting the boot into Rolf Sorensen good 'n proper

'Rolf Sorensen is part of the omerta'

He knows about doping at Rabo'

'He's not telling the truth'

Richmond Racer

the article, 'Throw Rolf Out'

original:
http://m.sporten.dk/touch/content.pml?g ... lf-ud-tv-2

ddraver

Lost the tweet now. but he posted a list of blood values over his career, all of them were all around 40 %. He pointed out that there was nothing amongst them that would have raised suspicion but that he was 100% doping for all of them!

tailwindhome

afx237vi wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

This was a team that was able to revitalise riders that had lost their way in the middle of cycling's dirtiest ever period.

And if Bjarne cracks are Jens, Andy, Fabian, Stuey et al sitting comfortably?

I think many cycling fans would find it hard to continue watching this sport if he was ever done.

But would any of them be surprised?

Hmmm.

My feeling from reading comments on here over the past couple of years is that he features very highly on most posters 'Riders I love' and 'Riders I believe to be clean' lists. Hence my comment.

However, given the nature of cycling it would not come as a 'suprise' if any rider was outed as a doper. He would need to be getting transfusions of cheetah blood or some such to genuinely surprise people.

nic_77

frenchfighter wrote:

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

And just in case you were not aware, he is a MASSIVE CHEAT.
Great to watch, but so was Ricco, Rasmussen and Pantani.

I actually think I have more respect for Armstrong (and that is very little) because at least he has confessed (eventually / partially).

Love your photos though

LeicesterLad

nic_77 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

And just in case you were not aware, he is a MASSIVE CHEAT.
Great to watch, but so was Ricco, Rasmussen and Pantani.

I actually think I have more respect for Armstrong (and that is very little) because at least he has confessed (eventually / partially).Love your photos though

:shock: Looks like you have more respect for Armstrong than a sizeable chunk of the Peloton then.

nic_77

LeicesterLad wrote:

nic_77 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

And just in case you were not aware, he is a MASSIVE CHEAT.
Great to watch, but so was Ricco, Rasmussen and Pantani.

I actually think I have more respect for Armstrong (and that is very little) because at least he has confessed (eventually / partially).Love your photos though

:shock: Looks like you have more respect for Armstrong than a sizeable chunk of the Peloton then.

Maybe that is the case, at least the ones that have been proven to have cheated but refuse to help clean up the sport they claim to love... like, um let me see...

As George Washington said:
“It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one.”

Of course, my respect comment was tongue in cheek - I have zero respect for either Armstrong or Contador (or anyone else who has clearly doped but not been man enough to admit it).

But there is a genuine point here too - does the principle of the prodigal son apply to a doping confession? Take Rasmussen as an example (since we are on that thread)... before yesterday, I despised him for his obvious cheating and contempt for the sport... now he's admitted it, do I despise him more, the same or less?? How about you?

LeicesterLad

nic_77 wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

nic_77 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

And just in case you were not aware, he is a MASSIVE CHEAT.
Great to watch, but so was Ricco, Rasmussen and Pantani.

I actually think I have more respect for Armstrong (and that is very little) because at least he has confessed (eventually / partially).Love your photos though

:shock: Looks like you have more respect for Armstrong than a sizeable chunk of the Peloton then.

Maybe that is the case, at least the ones that have been proven to have cheated but refuse to help clean up the sport they claim to love... like, um let me see...

As George Washington said:
“It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one.”

Of course, my respect comment was tongue in cheek - I have zero respect for either Armstrong or Contador (or anyone else who has clearly doped but not been man enough to admit it).

But there is a genuine point here too - does the principle of the prodigal son apply to a doping confession? Take Rasmussen as an example (since we are on that thread)... before yesterday, I despised him for his obvious cheating and contempt for the sport... now he's admitted it, do I despise him more, the same or less?? How about you?

I don't have time for anybody that suddenly wants to come clean at the end of their career - no more than those who don't come clean in the middle of it, by their own choice or otherwise. I have less time for Armstrong - his was a reign of terror that hurt the lives of many - I found his bullying arrogance far more of a turn off than his doping and I hope he rots, penniless and alone. The man is disgusting.

I don't hold that much disdain for anybody else in the Peloton, a little less disdain for those who have at least been caught and served with bans. As for Rasmussen, its great that he's going to grass everybody else up (10 years too late) and reveal a few tricks of the trade. I don't like him anymore than I did a month ago though. He's had his career and basically retired, comfortably, before he could be a*sed to open his mouth. To a certain degree that makes me dislike him a little more. It's pretty Gutless.

powerbookboy

Outsider art by Loan wrote:

powerbookboy wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Outsider art by Loan wrote:

powerbookboy wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Anti-Doping Danmark: "After our talks with Michael Rasmussen, we can see that it actually got worse after the Festina case..."

I suppose everyone had to get a lot more professional, organised and institutionalised.

Still, it confirms one thing. Contador doped in 2007. There's no way he could have done this clean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WRqxW9Jyt8
.

Awesome. Alberto doesn't ride like that anymore, though.

You should watch more racing.

Wot he said..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1XKyCFeW6I

That the best example you could think of was an attack which didn't work pretty much proves my point (which, to clarify, was not that Contador doesn't attack anymore, but that he just isn't quite as strong a cyclist now).

Didn't work? He blew the best climber in the Tour that year off his wheel, and the only people that caught him metres from the line are known Classics riders with explosive finishes and questions marks around them.

Truth be told, I'm stupid enough to believe that Contador probably is the best rider of his generation clean or dirty. He seems to have lost a bit of his TT and top end climbing form, which I think tallies quite nicely with what you might expect. He still races in the same aggressive, instinctive way, which is why I would watch him ride a Chopper to the shops.

But I find it hard to believe his talent is such that he was able to race against a field of junkies clean and match their performance. Hence my 2007 Tour comment.

If he did, then blow me the drugs really don't work as well as advertised and we should give Lance et al a break.

frenchfighter

Nic, just enjoy the racing, the polka dots and the photos:

powerbookboy

frenchfighter wrote:

Nic, just enjoy the racing, the polka dots and the photos:

Robin Williams really should sue for image rights...

frenchfighter

powerbookboy wrote:

Didn't work? He blew the best climber in the Tour that year off his wheel, and the only people that caught him metres from the line are known Classics riders with explosive finishes and questions marks around them.

Truth be told, I'm stupid enough to believe that Contador probably is the best rider of his generation clean or dirty. He seems to have lost a bit of his TT and top end climbing form, which I think tallies quite nicely with what you might expect. He still races in the same aggressive, instinctive way, which is why I would watch him ride a Chopper to the shops.

But I find it hard to believe his talent is such that he was able to race against a field of junkies clean and match their performance. Hence my 2007 Tour comment.

If he did, then blow me the drugs really don't work as well as advertised and we should give Lance et al a break.

Good comments.

nic_77

EDIT: Moved to separate thread... you heard the man.

frenchfighter

That is good enough to start its own thread tbh. Nice.

apriliarider

frenchfighter wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Frenchie, can you honestly say that Contador has ever looked quite as dominant since his return from suspension? 2007-20011 he was simply riding away from everybody on summit finishes, never to be seen again but now anymore. Either he's got worse or everybody else has got better.

I'm not wanting to have an argument, i'm not Bertie hater, but to me it does seem quite striking. He won the Vuelta last year because he was smarter and braver than J Rod, whereas before he's usually won by just climbing and TTing better.

Just in case you were not aware, he won the race.

He was won a MTF in his first race this year.

I think all other GC riders would be happy with that. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins Oman (if he wants to) and wins the Tour and the Vuelta this year.

The guy was and still is the best GT rider of his generation.

He is a cheat - I do not care how exciting he is to watch - put him in the same box as Armstrong et al and move on.

rob churchill

BigMat wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Everyone linked to him during his whole career should be worried.

Does that include Lemond?

Mmmmmmmmmmmm..... Lemond Chicken.

tailwindhome

rob churchill wrote:

BigMat wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Everyone linked to him during his whole career should be worried.

Does that include Lemond?

Mmmmmmmmmmmm..... Lemond Chicken.

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner

slim_boy_fat

rob churchill wrote:

BigMat wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Everyone linked to him during his whole career should be worried.

Does that include Lemond?

Mmmmmmmmmmmm..... Lemond Chicken.

Inspired! /thread over

thomthom

Bye Bye, Denis.

frenchfighter

Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Michael Rasmussen: "During the Tour de France 2007, Rabobank stored Dynepo in the fridge on the bus" (via @hendriksmj)
So Michael Rasmussen just said, in court, that Denis Menchov used blood doping in 2006. Katusha just can't catch a break, huh?...

LeicesterLad

frenchfighter wrote:

Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Michael Rasmussen: "During the Tour de France 2007, Rabobank stored Dynepo in the fridge on the bus" (via @hendriksmj)
So Michael Rasmussen just said, in court, that Denis Menchov used blood doping in 2006. Katusha just can't catch a break, huh?...

Good. Katusha so shady. Dispicable little team.

philbar72

them, Astana and Rabobank... properly Dodgy. Vino, LL Cool sanchez, Menchov.

danlikesbikes

LeicesterLad wrote:

I don't have time for anybody that suddenly wants to come clean at the end of their career - no more than those who don't come clean in the middle of it, by their own choice or otherwise. I have less time for Armstrong - his was a reign of terror that hurt the lives of many - I found his bullying arrogance far more of a turn off than his doping and I hope he rots, penniless and alone. The man is disgusting.

I don't hold that much disdain for anybody else in the Peloton, a little less disdain for those who have at least been caught and served with bans. As for Rasmussen, its great that he's going to grass everybody else up (10 years too late) and reveal a few tricks of the trade. I don't like him anymore than I did a month ago though. He's had his career and basically retired, comfortably, before he could be a*sed to open his mouth. To a certain degree that makes me dislike him a little more. It's pretty Gutless.

^-^ Pretty good summary - well certainly sums up they way I feel towards drugs cheats in our sport, there is no place for it and no excuse in my mind that will ever convince me otherwise.

No_Ta_Doctor

Danlikesbikes wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

I don't have time for anybody that suddenly wants to come clean at the end of their career - no more than those who don't come clean in the middle of it, by their own choice or otherwise. I have less time for Armstrong - his was a reign of terror that hurt the lives of many - I found his bullying arrogance far more of a turn off than his doping and I hope he rots, penniless and alone. The man is disgusting.

I don't hold that much disdain for anybody else in the Peloton, a little less disdain for those who have at least been caught and served with bans. As for Rasmussen, its great that he's going to grass everybody else up (10 years too late) and reveal a few tricks of the trade. I don't like him anymore than I did a month ago though. He's had his career and basically retired, comfortably, before he could be a*sed to open his mouth. To a certain degree that makes me dislike him a little more. It's pretty Gutless.

^-^ Pretty good summary - well certainly sums up they way I feel towards drugs cheats in our sport, there is no place for it and no excuse in my mind that will ever convince me otherwise.

I'm not a big fan of the chicken, but his position was pretty similar to that of Floyd. Got banned, attempted a comeback, found he was toxic and nobody of any note would touch him. It's not right to say it was the end of his career though, firstly because he only officially retired after his confession, secondly because he's still trying to make a career in cycling management. His retirement as a rider was pretty much forced on him and he still stands to lose his career running a team.

iainf72

Does anyone know, did the Chicken implicate Hayman? I saw someone tweeted about it but haven't read everything yet (and the person was a journalist, not a looney)