Chicken sings

frenchfighter

Has there been any backlash against Ryder on twitter? I haven`t seen anything in my cursory glance.

Seems that most of those hold their abuse to wield against Western European nations, not including Britain :roll:

ddraver

That's right Frenchie, don't let reality ruin a good bit of hate

To anyone else interested in the truth, Yes Ryder and JV are taking a lot of flack at the moment...

frenchfighter

Can you let me know a few people? ideally some professionals or people who have a modicum of credibility?

r0bh

ddraver wrote:

Twitter update

JV was up late last night and RR and I were having a chat

Turns out USADA did not allow Garmin to release what RH had said to them, and JV/Garmin knew about RH's "past indiscretions" long before he signed for Garmin. i.e. he is a perfect example of the Garmin style T&R style

Now whether you believe him or not...

You mean the Garmin style omerta? Keep knowledge of a rider's doping a secret until backed into a corner by someone else's confession?

frenchfighter

ddraver

r0bh wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Twitter update

JV was up late last night and RR and I were having a chat

Turns out USADA did not allow Garmin to release what RH had said to them, and JV/Garmin knew about RH's "past indiscretions" long before he signed for Garmin. i.e. he is a perfect example of the Garmin style T&R style

Now whether you believe him or not...

You mean the Garmin style omerta? Keep knowledge of a rider's doping a secret until backed into a corner by someone else's confession?

Well that's where JV would point to USADA not letting them release Ryder's confession

rick_chasey

Any rider in his 30s is likelier than not to be tainted if it was as rife was we are led to believe.

Not surprised.

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

Any rider in his 30s is likelier than not to be tainted if it was as rife was we are led to believe.

Not surprised.

Agree with this. Just look at his first two teams! A bit disappointed, but not really surprised.

r0bh

ddraver wrote:

Well that's where JV would point to USADA not letting them release Ryder's confession

I don't buy that at all. Anyone can confess to their own wrongdoings at any point. If required detail could be held back so as not to adversely affect other investigations.

Macaloon

ddraver wrote:

Well that's where JV would point to USADA not letting them release Ryder's confession

There was plenty of time between being hired in 2008 and being gagged by USADA. Granted there may not have been a good day to bury bad news, and SoL only expired in 2011 for 2003 offences... The timeline is problematic, to say the least, for a clean cycling team's credibility.

ddraver

r0bh wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Well that's where JV would point to USADA not letting them release Ryder's confession

I don't buy that at all. Anyone can confess to their own wrongdoings at any point. If required detail could be held back so as not to adversely affect other investigations.

I asked him if that was the reason but no response...

iainf72

ddraver wrote:

r0bh wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Well that's where JV would point to USADA not letting them release Ryder's confession

I don't buy that at all. Anyone can confess to their own wrongdoings at any point. If required detail could be held back so as not to adversely affect other investigations.

I asked him if that was the reason but no response...

Could it? People are demanding more information as it is.

This is why all this T&R horse crap needs to go away. No one is interested in truth, just in gossip.

r0bh

Hesjedal and Vaughters (and OGE) get quite a roasting on the aussie Cycling Central podcast: https://soundcloud.com/cycling-central/ ... 3-jack-out

Pokerface

Ryder is Canadian, so unsure as to what authority USADA would have over him to prevent him from confessing publicly?

ddraver

USADA and Canadian USADA...

salsiccia1

Come on, people. He was riding in the early 2000s; I'd have been more shocked if he HADN'T been on it.

This is where I quite like Garmin's approach - accepting that most riders in the past were doing something they shouldn't, and letting them move on without having to come out and confess publicly to something that everyone knows was happening anyway.

It's not 2003 that matters, it's now and onwards. To me, there should be an amnesty of sorts - Cookson should come out and say 'we know in years past things were bad, let's move on just make sure it's not happening now'.

ManOfKent

Macaloon wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Well that's where JV would point to USADA not letting them release Ryder's confession

There was plenty of time between being hired in 2008 and being gagged by USADA. Granted there may not have been a good day to bury bad news, and SoL only expired in 2011 for 2003 offences... The timeline is problematic, to say the least, for a clean cycling team's credibility.

Is he saying he doped only in 2003 and then stopped? From what I've read, Rasmussen's accusation didn't put a firm timeline on it.

Edit: I've just seen he claims it was "more than a decade ago" (early 2003?) and "short-lived", which is convenient.

slim_boy_fat

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Come on, people. He was riding in the early 2000s; I'd have been more shocked if he HADN'T been on it.

This is where I quite like Garmin's approach - accepting that most riders in the past were doing something they shouldn't, and letting them move on without having to come out and confess publicly to something that everyone knows was happening anyway.

It's not 2003 that matters, it's now and onwards. To me, there should be an amnesty of sorts - Cookson should come out and say 'we know in years past things were bad, let's move on just make sure it's not happening now'.

Pretty much this. The past is gone, can't change it and everyone knows what went on. Focus on now and the future. Still I would prefer it if riders had the guts to say, 'I doped .' before their hand was forced. Would take all the gossip and rumour out of it.

Crankbrother

Zero credibility for JV/Slipstream left ... Happy to hire dopers on the cheap and hope no-one catches on ... Which is fine, but as he's chief majorette twirling his baton in front of those beating the drum ... it's time for him to move on ...

As much smoke and mirrors as Tailwind in the end ...

Richmond Racer

Strictly speaking, what's happening is what's become Garmin and JV's usual MO: the Garmin rider - or ex-rider in Klier's case - releases his statement. He then goes to ground for months. Meanwhile JV manages the whiplash over Twitter for him.

r0bh

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Come on, people. He was riding in the early 2000s; I'd have been more shocked if he HADN'T been on it.

This is where I quite like Garmin's approach - accepting that most riders in the past were doing something they shouldn't, and letting them move on without having to come out and confess publicly to something that everyone knows was happening anyway.

It's not 2003 that matters, it's now and onwards. To me, there should be an amnesty of sorts - Cookson should come out and say 'we know in years past things were bad, let's move on just make sure it's not happening now'.

I agree with your first and last paragraphs, but not the middle one. Surely any notion of Garmin being somehow "cleaner" than other teams - which is essentially what they have built much of their fan base on - is now completely untenable?

salsiccia1

r0bh wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Come on, people. He was riding in the early 2000s; I'd have been more shocked if he HADN'T been on it.

This is where I quite like Garmin's approach - accepting that most riders in the past were doing something they shouldn't, and letting them move on without having to come out and confess publicly to something that everyone knows was happening anyway.

It's not 2003 that matters, it's now and onwards. To me, there should be an amnesty of sorts - Cookson should come out and say 'we know in years past things were bad, let's move on just make sure it's not happening now'.

I agree with your first and last paragraphs, but not the middle one. Surely any notion of Garmin being somehow "cleaner" than other teams - which is essentially what they have built much of their fan base on - is now completely untenable?

But that's the point - they're not claiming that all of their riders have always been clean, but that they are supporting riders who are clean NOW and have no desire to go back to what they might have been in the past. A redemption of sorts, and I like that.

above_the_cows

Who has ever come out on their own volition and confessed to doping when their back wasn't against the wall. No one. No one. These confessions or non-confessions don't happen in a vacuum. They happen within a culture and various power structures. No one is every entirely 'free' to do anything. There are always constraints.

Hesjedal it seems has been open and honest with his current employers and with doping agencies when asked. I don't know what more people want? Full disclosure of everything bad everyone has ever done? Well you go first...

r0bh

Salsiccia1 wrote:

r0bh wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Come on, people. He was riding in the early 2000s; I'd have been more shocked if he HADN'T been on it.

This is where I quite like Garmin's approach - accepting that most riders in the past were doing something they shouldn't, and letting them move on without having to come out and confess publicly to something that everyone knows was happening anyway.

It's not 2003 that matters, it's now and onwards. To me, there should be an amnesty of sorts - Cookson should come out and say 'we know in years past things were bad, let's move on just make sure it's not happening now'.

I agree with your first and last paragraphs, but not the middle one. Surely any notion of Garmin being somehow "cleaner" than other teams - which is essentially what they have built much of their fan base on - is now completely untenable?

But that's the point - they're not claiming that all of their riders have always been clean, but that they are supporting riders who are clean NOW and have no desire to go back to what they might have been in the past. A redemption of sorts, and I like that.

But other than having better PR what are they doing that is any different from Astana, BMC, Movistar, Katusha, OPQS, Radioshack or Saxo?

ddraver

r0bh wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

r0bh wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Come on, people. He was riding in the early 2000s; I'd have been more shocked if he HADN'T been on it.

This is where I quite like Garmin's approach - accepting that most riders in the past were doing something they shouldn't, and letting them move on without having to come out and confess publicly to something that everyone knows was happening anyway.

It's not 2003 that matters, it's now and onwards. To me, there should be an amnesty of sorts - Cookson should come out and say 'we know in years past things were bad, let's move on just make sure it's not happening now'.

I agree with your first and last paragraphs, but not the middle one. Surely any notion of Garmin being somehow "cleaner" than other teams - which is essentially what they have built much of their fan base on - is now completely untenable?

But that's the point - they're not claiming that all of their riders have always been clean, but that they are supporting riders who are clean NOW and have no desire to go back to what they might have been in the past. A redemption of sorts, and I like that.

But other than having better PR what are they doing that is any different from Astana, BMC, Movistar, Katusha, OPQS, Radioshack or Saxo?

Nothing...

This is one of the reasons I get annoyed at the constant Sky bashing. They re the only team that are genuinely trying to do something different and they get slammed for every tiny mistake. OGE had a go until Matt White got popped, but they wanted to keep him so the whole lot went out the window...

ddraver

JV has just tweeted Michel Conde with what he tweeted RR and I this morning and twitter has exploded

How does it feel to have scooped the whole cycling Press RR? High Five Girlfriend!

Richmond Racer

ddraver wrote:

JV has just tweeted Michel Conde with what he tweeted RR and I this morning and twitter has exploded

How does it feel to have scooped the whole cycling Press RR? High Five Girlfriend!

I'm humbled. And honoured. I'd like to thank my family and friends for the support they've given me over the years....

above_the_cows

Richmond Racer wrote:

I'm humbled. And honoured. I'd like to thank my family and friends for the support they've given me over the years....

Richmond Racer

no sodding macro-biotic diet, though

unless chocolate freddos count

ozzzyosborn206

is there any team with more past dopers in their set up ie. riders or staff than Garmin, they are looked upon as being a 'clean team' but whats to say they are not the masters on reverse psychology. Claim to be all anti doping, go to all the meeting but continuing to hire past dopers when there is lots of clean talent never even making it pro because of what these guys have done in the past.