Chicken sings

r0bh

But all Hesjedal has confessed to is using EPO in 2003 when he was a MTBer. So either (a) the "ongoing investigation" line is utter manure, since he hasn't implicated anyone else and it's hard to see who of any importance there could be to implicate, or (b) there is additional doping in his career that he hasn't publicly admitted to yet.

r0bh

ddraver wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

If your responding to me, You have a point. What sticks in my throat about it is that it's hard to view this as anything else other than the riders coming clean when they have no other choice.

There's a taste of shouting that "Everyone should speak up about their doping...oh no erm, after you everyone"

To be honest I find it difficult that Ryder was silenced by CESC (although maybe by USADA), I think it's far more likely that they decided to keep schtum about it...

If USADA have an investigation into someone who was involved in - oh I don't know, Phonak, and is still involved in cycling, and Ryder perhaps have information, do you not think they'd keep it under their hats? After all, it wasn't public knowledge that Levi had testified in the Lance thing.

Why would anyone come clean unless under duress? Look at the reactions it gets.

I agree with your last point, but if so, Why does JV bleat about how his team are so open with their past discretions? The bit about "they have to be open to the authorities, no one else" is some fine print that is notably lacking from much of the Team Garmin rhetoric.

If USADA are now dictating to Northern American sport who can say what about their past then I'd suggest that they re slightly overstepping their mark...They ve had plenty of time pre or post Armstrong to be clean about Ryder's past. They chose not too...

It's really puzzling why Hesjedal didn't come clean at the time of the USADA reasoned decision. It would have been the perfect time, safety in numbers etc, and _if_ 2003 is his only doping offence still outside the statute of limitations. So you can only really conclude that they didn't want it to come out and are now in damage limitation mode (and not doing it very well) because of what The Chicken has said.

I wonder if all this would have played out differently had he not won the Giro last year, maybe it was too hard to come clean so soon after the biggest result of his career?

ddraver

My question is, If Truth is so important to Garmin, why did nt he come clean before that..?

And yes I do know the answer...

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

My question is, If Truth is so important to Garmin, why did nt he come clean before that..?

And yes I do know the answer...

Come clean to who though? The relevant authorities or the general populace?

That's the thing with 'truth' and 'transparency'. Are you being truthful and transparent if you make all information available to those that can use it or do you have to deliver it to any old chump who may take an interest?

ddraver

I think being open means making the information available. It does nt mean shouting about it, but if someone asks if Rider X has doped then the answer needs to be the truth. So yes, to any old chump.

Other wise as RObh says they re the same as any other team, just with better PR

Crankbrother

JV conveniently forgets he and is staff made/are making good money racing riders who should have serving been bans and not racing and depriving other teams/riders of a livelihood ... Garmin is just a team of Contadors and Valverdes ...

RonB

Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters 1h
This is what happens when you think you'll just squeak by.... http://11foot8.com

the Inner Ring
@inrng
@Vaughters here's one just for you http://t.co/OdEPKIGul7
9:08 p.m. Fri, Nov 1

Macaloon

I'm a huge admirer of Vaughters' considerable swingers. I also think he's doing one of the right things. There might be a connection there.

tailwindhome

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ddraver

@Rich - thinking about it a bit more...They could say that we have signed RH who has confessed to doping in XXXX. Any details will be given to the authorities and dealt with by them....or similar

One could also be extremely cynical and admit to doping in 2012 in 2020, 2013 in 2021 etc

Art Vandelay

Sorry if this has come up before but has there been any actual statement from Hesjedal about when he quit doping other than some vague 'many years before I joined Garmin' brush off?

Macaloon

Art Vandelay wrote:

Sorry if this has come up before but has there been any actual statement from Hesjedal about when he quit doping other than some vague 'many years before I joined Garmin' brush off?

I don't think so. But Vaughters said he would fire a rider who lied about his doping timeline - strongly endorsing the 'I stopped in 2003' story.

Art Vandelay

AFAIK Vaughters, or Hesjedal, haven't made any suggestion that 2003 was the first and only year though. A pretty unlikely tale that would be. 8 years after he left Phonak - that would be 2014. Maybe will get a more detailed confession then?

RichN95.

The statement from Canadian Anti-Doping explicitly said that everything they had been told was outside the statute of limitations. They even used the word 'unfortunately' regarding his inability to sanction him.

ocdupalais

Right now, Vaughters is that scrawny weakling, stripped to the waist, standing out in the open, pissed, shouting "Come on then… One at a time…!"...

Gut instinct on integrity? My money's on that guy every time. Broadcasting himself and his (team's) values all over the internet with an agenda… what else is he trading on other than his integrity? And that's not to say that he's got it right and perfect...
As the previous poster queried in a previous post, where's the scrutiny of Unzué, Vinokourov… Ekimov…!?!

All this nit-picking of Garmin - making the occasional minor boo-boo whilst on the whole fighting the good fight; while all these other tosspots are keeping their heads low and taking the p!ss...

It's hilarious that so much of the anti-doping argument is "who's doing things correctly: Garmin or Sky?"..

What the fukc is anyone else doing?

Yellow Peril

Poor old Dan Martin I bet he's starting to feel a bit left out at Garmin. The only thing he can confess to is not being Irish and I don't think anyone has the heart to tell him we know that already.

As for the rest of Garmin, it's turning out to be a fashionable and hip version of Rock Racing. Perhaps they can complete the image by competing the whole of the 2014 season on fixies.

Art Vandelay

RichN95 wrote:

The statement from Canadian Anti-Doping explicitly said that everything they had been told was outside the statute of limitations. They even used the word 'unfortunately' regarding his inability to sanction him.

Isn't it likely the info Hesjedal shared with CCES was limited to what he wanted to reveal? No legal compulsion to state that he did/did not dope with Phonak/USPS with CCES discussions.

tailwindhome

Lionel Birnie ‏@lionelbirnie 10h
The point is this: when David Millar came back & won a stage of the Vuelta and Tour, he was an ex-doper who had to tread some hard yards...

Lionel Birnie ‏@lionelbirnie 10h
Other riders have trodden the same path.

Lionel Birnie ‏@lionelbirnie 10h
When Hesjedal won the Giro he was not treated like an ex-doper. He was marketed as a clean rider (which I don't doubt he was in 2012)

Macaloon

Art Vandelay wrote:

Isn't it likely the info Hesjedal shared with CCES was limited to what he wanted to reveal? No legal compulsion to state that he did/did not dope with Phonak/USPS with CCES discussions.

It comes down to how credible you find Vaughters. He said (tweeted) he believes Ryder has told the whole truth - including the timeline. It's hard to see how Hej could have continued with a doping program without Vaughters knowing about it.

Edit: "Vaughters Nov 01, 4:35pm via Twitter for iPhone
Clarification: if one if my guys is found to have lied to authorities, timeline or otherwise: fired. Nasty truth, I'll stand by. Not lying."

FocusZing

Cast your fate to the wind. I believe Jonathan Vaughers has good intentions, his commitment to conversing with people who are interested is commit all.

Richmond Racer

JV's way of working and approach is looking increasingly dodgy to me. Apart from anything else, hiring Johnny Weltz as a DS for Garmin even though it now transpires (as per Emma O'Reilly's unredacted testimony that's now in the public domain) that Weltz administered the USPS doping program with Calaya) is just...extraordinary. Not a rider who 'was bullied by Lance etc into doping boo hoo'. But right at the heart of its administration..?

Sorry but there's a lot, a hell of a lot, that's just not right here.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that Tygart's interest really does start and end with Lance.

nic_77

TailWindHome wrote:

Lionel Birnie ‏@lionelbirnie 10h
The point is this: when David Millar came back & won a stage of the Vuelta and Tour, he was an ex-doper who had to tread some hard yards...

Lionel Birnie ‏@lionelbirnie 10h
Other riders have trodden the same path.

Lionel Birnie ‏@lionelbirnie 10h
When Hesjedal won the Giro he was not treated like an ex-doper. He was marketed as a clean rider (which I don't doubt he was in 2012)

This summarises my discomfort with the Garmin approach. Confessed ex-dopers I can handle, this sort of behaviour moves Ryder closer to the Contador / Valverde bracket.

RichN95.

FocusZing wrote:

Cast your fate to the wind. I believe Jonathan Vaughers has good intentions, his commitment to conversing with people who are interested is commit all.

Or he blows smoke up their ars* and validates them so they turn their vitriol in other directions.

iainf72

Let's assume Ryder's doping was all in an era where the statute of limitations is in effect.

Should he have lied so he could've copped a ban as some kind of moral exercise?

Turfle

I guess there's a certain nobility in being the only team with riders brave enough to tell the truth when cornered by the authorities. I guess. (apart from all those riders on other teams who did the same)

I love Vaughters, but the stuff he wants to take credit for is utter nonsense.

Turfle

One side effect of all these Garmin confessions is you now have to assume Hunter, Farrar, Maaskant, Rosseler, Wegmann, Vansummeren etc all signed for Garmin because the team would help hide their doping past, maybe even long enough so the statute of limitations was up. Not really fair on them.

TheBigBean

Garmin is run like a victim support group. The subjective part about which people are arguing is whether they are really victims.

ddraver

iainf72 wrote:

Let's assume Ryder's doping was all in an era where the statute of limitations is in effect.

Should he have lied so he could've copped a ban as some kind of moral exercise?

YES!! He F**king should have done - but yes I also know that's totally unrealistic...

iainf72

ddraver wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Let's assume Ryder's doping was all in an era where the statute of limitations is in effect.

Should he have lied so he could've copped a ban as some kind of moral exercise?

YES!! He F**king should have done - but yes I also know that's totally unrealistic...

So you're not concerned with the truth, but more about exercising some kind of punishment?

(I'm not saying that's wrong)

Richmond Racer

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