Chicken sings

tailwindhome

ThomThom wrote:

Just to clarify; His quote on how the Rabo 2007 Tour-team was all doped up was in a live chat. Not written in the book.

Some suggestion on Twitter that his 100% comment was more along the lines of "All riders were doping" than a specific "All Rabobank were doping".....if you know what I mean.

timoid.

I know it's whistling in the wind, but Freire is a rider I'd love to find out didn't dope.

thomthom

TailWindHome wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Just to clarify; His quote on how the Rabo 2007 Tour-team was all doped up was in a live chat. Not written in the book.

Some suggestion on Twitter that his 100% comment was more along the lines of "All riders were doping" than a specific "All Rabobank were doping".....if you know what I mean.

Yep.

"Michael Rasmussen claims that all of the teammates who in 2007 Rabobank crew was able to help him in the yellow jersey in the Tour de France, was doped.

Michael Rasmussen wrote that in a chat with users on Sunday night at dr.dk after he on DR Sunday had told about the making and content of his new book 'Yellow Fever'.

Here he replied to the question on whether he could give an estimate of the percentage of riders who were doped back in 2007 when Rasmussen was pulled out of the race by his team wearing the yellow jersey:

- At Rabobank: 100 percent.
- Certainly not with the same products, but all received some form of doping from the team, wrote Rasmussen in response to the user."

http://www.b.dk/cykling/rasmussen-alle- ... var-dopede

rick_chasey

Is this book available in English??

Sounds fun.

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

"If you can get 2nd or 3rd why not take a little doping and win? You have already made so many sacrifices..."

Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde 5h
Ha! MR on TDF 2006: "If my blood wasn't in the Danube, I would have won 3 Alps stages in a row & reached Paris 1 day before everybody else!"

Bahaha.

Terrible I know but I somehow love the way they have their own shite office chat for something so fundamentally grotesque.

thomthom

Rick Chasey wrote:

Is this book available in English??

Sounds fun.

Surely will be but was released just today in Denmark.

rick_chasey

Timoid. wrote:

I know it's whistling in the wind, but Freire is a rider I'd love to find out didn't dope.

We still clinging onto individual riders in period?

Take it as a given and enjoy finding out about what was really behind performances. There's so much inconsistency in who was doping, what with, and how much there's a whole new world to discover.

Quite fun really, once you get over morality in sport.

rick_chasey

ThomThom wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Is this book available in English??

Sounds fun.

Surely will be but was released just today in Denmark.

Cool.

Mind keeping us up to date?

frenchfighter

frenchfighter wrote:

Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde 56m
To show how strong MR felt in 07. On the Col d'Aubisque: "I did Contador a favor, not distancing him with 2 min. I had the legs to do it"

I suspect I will be quoting this one often.

Macaloon

^ Belongs in the Cirque du Soleil thread.

shinyhelmut

You do realise that being beaten by a doper isn't necessarily proof of cleanliness?

raymond82

I find it quite interesting, how we slowly find out how things were ran in that area but sometimes I don't get it. First MR says everyone was doped and then he retracts it and now we assume Freire and Flecha were clean? Weening just calls him "frustrated" so I guess that's that, but Hesjedal confesses immediately. I guess it's safe to say the difference is when it happened, as the Hesjedal case was too long ago for legal action. So in the end we still don't know anything, MR accuses and the others just deny.

frenchfighter

ShinyHelmut wrote:

You do realise that being beaten by a doper isn't necessarily proof of cleanliness?

Of course. But people trot out the example all the time as a blatantly doped performance. This pours water on that fire even if it doesnt extinguish it.

FocusZing

raymond82 wrote:

I find it quite interesting, how we slowly find out how things were ran in that area but sometimes I don't get it. First MR says everyone was doped and then he retracts it and now we assume Freire and Flecha were clean? Weening just calls him "frustrated" so I guess that's that, but Hesjedal confesses immediately. I guess it's safe to say the difference is when it happened, as the Hesjedal case was too long ago for legal action. So in the end we still don't know anything, MR accuses and the others just deny.

That's probably how many implicated regard their position. They are innocent until enough evidence makes their situation untenable.

They are learning now to have a sparkler rather than a firework display.

tailwindhome

Wasn't watching in 2007

But if you just present me with the photos above and ask who the doper was with fire in his legs I'd have to say the one in the white. The rider in the yellow looks like he's about to go backwards very quickly...

Must look out the you tube clip.

raymond82

That's probably how many implicated regard the situation. They are innocent until enough evidence makes their situation untenable.

In that case I wonder how to value the book and the revelations that are in there. I usually think that the caught dopers have little reason to lie, contrary to what the accused say that haven't been caught yet. But while it can all be denied, what's the point? I have to admit I enjoy the gossip side of it too but mainly I would be so happy if we truly find out everyone was doped in that era, some sort of reduction in punishment is agreed on and we can all move on. And I can cheer again for Contador without having to defend it.

ddraver

TailWindHome wrote:

Wasn't watching in 2007

But if you just present me with the photos above and ask who the doper was with fire in his legs I'd have to say the one in the white. The rider in the yellow looks like he's about to go backwards very quickly...

Must look out the you tube clip.

I really wouldn't pay frenchie's comments any heed TWH - Just check which one of the two riders in that photo failed a drugs test. Then check how far those two riders were ahead of everyone else in the peloton.

Have a feeling I might be quoting that quite a lot in the future

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

Wasn't watching in 2007

But if you just present me with the photos above and ask who the doper was with fire in his legs I'd have to say the one in the white. The rider in the yellow looks like he's about to go backwards very quickly...

Must look out the you tube clip.

...untill Rasmussen buries Contador in the final 1500m

ddraver

raymond82 wrote:

That's probably how many implicated regard the situation. They are innocent until enough evidence makes their situation untenable.

In that case I wonder how to value the book and the revelations that are in there. I usually think that the caught dopers have little reason to lie, contrary to what the accused say that haven't been caught yet. But while it can all be denied, what's the point? I have to admit I enjoy the gossip side of it too but mainly I would be so happy if we truly find out everyone was doped in that era, some sort of reduction in punishment is agreed on and we can all move on. And I can cheer again for Contador without having to defend it.

To me this feels like a lot like Floyd Landis - someone who has tried to "do the right thing" cy his team mates and managers and has been screwed over, bankrupted and humiliated. So basically he's just standing up and telling all of us to f**k off instead. Given the widescale acceptance of USADA, it's a lot easier for people to accept it now.

Given the era that Friere rode in and particularly Flecha's shenanigans with Sky, I find it very hard to believe that they rode clean throughout the whole era. Whether or not they doped that one specific time for me is fairly irrelevant...

FocusZing

raymond82 wrote:

That's probably how many implicated regard the situation. They are innocent until enough evidence makes their situation untenable.

In that case I wonder how to value the book and the revelations that are in there. I usually think that the caught dopers have little reason to lie, contrary to what the accused say that haven't been caught yet. But while it can all be denied, what's the point? I have to admit I enjoy the gossip side of it too but mainly I would be so happy if we truly find out everyone was doped in that era, some sort of reduction in punishment is agreed on and we can all move on. And I can cheer again for Contador without having to defend it.

That would be my thought too, but they need enough evidence to avoid litigation. I expect it was written in a style to not name names to avoid this, just generalised implications.

It's just sensational twaddle. How the hell does the Chicken know he could have dropped Ribs by 2" (what ifs).

frenchfighter

So I was checking a few results from 07 Tour and came across this quote from MR...

“It’s true that I was booed at the start and again during the stage also. I believe that, for the moment, there’s a lot of frustration amongst the people who follow cycling and in the peloton about what’s going on – about what happened to ‘Vino’ yesterday – and I think that since he is not here and the Astana team has gone home, people are taking their frustration out on me. I understand now what Lance Armstrong went through for seven years and my respect for him is growing day by day.
“The only good thing there is to say about the Vinokourov case is that it proves that the system is working and to that I can only add that I’ve had 14 negative tests so far during this Tour.
“Now the overall victory is more important than stage wins but with the position that I was able to put myself in – winning the queen stage of the Tour while in the yellow jersey – it was pretty hard to deny taking the opportunity to do so.”

frenchfighter

Just for facts. Aubisque stage results:

Ras
Levi at 26 secs
Contador at 35 secs
Evans at 43 secs

-
note the pictures are from stage 15

DeVlaeminck

What shenanigans with Sky ?

ddraver

DeVlaeminck wrote:

What shenanigans with Sky ?

When Sky asked everyone to sign a declaration that they had never doped after the USADA affair cost them Michal Barry, Bobby Julich etc. Flecha was one of the riders who "mysteriously" left the team without signing it despite having another year on a decent contract

raymond82

To me this feels like a lot like Floyd Landis -

Exactly, LA also accused him of being unreliable because he was a doper but also then I thought his story was more reliable as he had a lot less to loose.

To me I find it very interesting to know how the doping system worked but individual cases are pretty irrelevant. Although being dutch I do have to say it bothers me to see Weening accused, he's one of the most prominent dutch riders (and the last one to win a tour stage in 2005) and if he would be suspended it would be a disappointment. But then again, I wouldn't blame him since it seems most of them were doing it. The only ones that are really screwed are the ones that tried to be clean throughout all these years.

I'm sure you've heard this before but I recently heard that "rabo" is a slang word for d!ck in Spanish, it gives the Rabobank team a whole different meaning I think!

frenchfighter

Antoine VAYER ‏@festinaboy 15h
@friebos @Juan_Guti ok, if he sues Rasmussen, I come with a couple of riders for testimony, Oscar ! Hypocrite !
Antoine VAYER ‏@festinaboy 14h
Sue, in French, is "Sweat". Come on, Oscar, triple World Champion of lie period. With Miguel if you want. You'll sweat, you'll exude.

If he had it he would bring it. Ferme ta gueule.

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

What shenanigans with Sky ?

When Sky asked everyone to sign a declaration that they had never doped after the USADA affair cost them Michal Barry, Bobby Julich etc. Flecha was one of the riders who "mysteriously" left the team without signing it despite having another year on a decent contract

Flecha had been heavily linked with a move to Vacansoleil a long time before Sky asked them to sign anything. It wasn't a sudden last minute move like Rogers.

raymond82

“It’s true that I was booed at the start and again during the stage also. I believe that, for the moment, there’s a lot of frustration amongst the people who follow cycling and in the peloton about what’s going on – about what happened to ‘Vino’ yesterday – and I think that since he is not here and the Astana team has gone home, people are taking their frustration out on me. I understand now what Lance Armstrong went through for seven years and my respect for him is growing day by day.
“The only good thing there is to say about the Vinokourov case is that it proves that the system is working and to that I can only add that I’ve had 14 negative tests so far during this Tour.
“Now the overall victory is more important than stage wins but with the position that I was able to put myself in – winning the queen stage of the Tour while in the yellow jersey – it was pretty hard to deny taking the opportunity to do so.”

I love reading old statements like this, it's almost as if they believe it themselves. It was the same when Boogerd confessed, on dutch tv they had a compilation of all the times he denied using doping on camera. Priceless!

Richmond Racer

ddraver wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

What shenanigans with Sky ?

When Sky asked everyone to sign a declaration that they had never doped after the USADA affair cost them Michal Barry, Bobby Julich etc. Flecha was one of the riders who "mysteriously" left the team without signing it despite having another year on a decent contract

Just a couple of points on this.

Flecha had agreed to go to Vacansoleil several months before that Sky interview/declaration process in Oct. His move to Vacansoleil was formally announced in Aug:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha- ... acansoleil

So the deal must have been done as soon as the UCI rules allowed contracts to be signed, and discussions must have started some considerable time before that. The word for the reason for his departure was that Flecha was told that Sky would be backing the younger riders eg Thomas, Stan, in the Classics in future, and he wasnt best pleased as he still saw himself as the Classics leader. And rather than keep an unhappy Flecha, they released him from his contract (which is actually fairly true to Sky's MO - if a rider's not happy, dont hold them to contract).

Barry talked to USADA in Sep - his was one of the very last statements given to USADA - and then he told Sky. Then in Oct the USADA report came out with all the witness statements including Barry's, and with Julich's name redacted as Rider 4. Sky then held their interview/confessional process at a team meeting mid-Oct.

ddraver

Ok, I declare my self defeated...

Raymond - is this getting much play in the Netherlands (living in The Hague I should be able to answer this myself but....) It seems like the Boogerd Story was much more of a "shock"? But then a load of my friends couldnt wait to meet him on the Avondetappe Ride