Vuelta Stage 17 **Spoiler**

knedlicky

Yeh, like Good Old Days. Great racing!

Maybe now not just the GT riders but also the domestiques are now clean(er) is why there are the time gaps and the field all spread out, afterall it wasn’t a tough last two climbs compared to many. Maybe if the Sky TdF team had been there or the Giro Liquigas lot, then things would have been more controlled, but when such teams aren’t around, then daring tactics do sometimes pay off.
Rodriquez should have seen it coming, it was really Contador’s last chance. And he had that extra bit of luck in that when he was first away, Valverde had a small defect, and the gap opened.

I hope those who found the stage left a taste in their mouths at least enjoyed the fabulous scenery.
But I wonder why they then do watch at all to begin with. The riders they don’t like were convicted and did their time. One gives convicted criminals a second chance, why not cyclist – cyclists haven’t even committed a criminal offence, just broken the rules of their sport.

thomthom

Crozza wrote:

the only tennis bust I can remember is some guy busted for cocaine after snogging a random bird in a Miami nightclub - that's pretty dirty

Here you go.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspo ... eader.html

The only reason why the problems are not really public is because they do fuck all about it.

knedlicky

Contador speaks:

“I knew that I’d have to attack early in order to put Rodriguez under pressure. For him, the situation is now clearly difficult.
I wanted to give emotion back to cycling. I haven’t come to the Vuelta to end up second. It was one of the best days of my career. I thank everyone who has believed in me – especially my family.”

Was that the wife he briefly greeted at the finish? Or the mother?
I thought the wife was taller and I couldn’t see the features well enough to judge the age.

frenchfighter

gabriel959

JRod just tweeted:

"Breaking News! Now I know why Cristiano Ronaldo is sad! It is because he is not riding the Vuelta with the rest of us!!! Thanks everyone!"

squired

J-Rod has been pretty conservative defending the jersey, just doing his typical jump with a few hundred metres to go. OK, I wouldn't have expected him to lose so much in one day, but have had a few discussions with people about how he'd not made the most of the days where he was obviously feeling good. Had he ridden harder when duelling with Contador the result would have been that Valverde was way behind in third. Instead he is now in third.

The final big stage on Saturday could be very interesting now. It will also be interesting to see how Froome finishes the race. For a man who has been struggling badly in the last few days it is amazing that he is still in fourth. There are clearly a number of guys running on fumes in the Vuelta.

dsoutar

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

dsoutar wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

mroli wrote:

Yep, unfortunately my complete failure to get excited by this stage is because Contador was banned for a doping offence and now, no matter how I want to, I can't believe in his riding. Gutted.

Watching the wrong race mate.

Please don't tell me you think that this is actually a good thing for pro-cycling

The quality of the racing is, for sure.

Was worried this whole season would be a massive bore-fest.

If you're extremely intolerant to an doping it's the wrong sport for you.

It's not a question extreme intolerance, it's a question of having vague self awareness of double standards. If someone is going to go on an Armstrong or Riis thread tutting about how terrible it all is, critizing riders for not saying anything and crying for justice, then they should at least then have enough sense not to half an hour later cream their pants when a couple of recently convicted cheats put on bit of a show.

I think you under-estimate what I want.

Fans want exciting racing. I'll suspend any doubts I have while I watch what's happening on the road.

Once the glow of the race has worn off I might think a bit more evenly about it, but ultimately I'm a fan and I want enjoyment from it. I put that ahead of avoiding double standards.

FTFY

Not all fans want what you do, as is clearly evidenced by at least some of the postings on here. If you had a choice between universally clean but less aggressive racing, or knowing that there was a good chance that doping was going on in most races but you'd be guaranteed exiting stages - what would you choose ?

I suspect the latter which is why you and I will always differ. If I walk out of a shop and I've been short changed, I get pissed off that I've been taken advantage of and that's how I feel about cyclists who cheat, especially those who don't subsequently show some form of contrition.

Until everyone's attitudes change, and that includes fans, we will always have to deal with cheats.

frenchfighter

David Millar ‏@millarmind
I said it once, I'm going to say it twice, @albertocontador is one hell of a bike racer.

FYI, Millar has always been a big fan of Contador.

thomthom

Dorset Boy wrote:

Where's your evidence that athletics and tennis are twice as dirty as cycling? That''d be pretty difficult given the acknowledged problems of cycling over the last 50 years!

That's a discussion I'll never win as Cycling is one few sports that's actually gives a crap about doping. Athletics have doping problems even further down the the years than cycling - imagine if they did the same amount of work against it as cycling does. It's rotten as hell. And I'm sure, imo, that's a hell of a lot worse than cycling today.

Here; That should keep you entertained for a couple of hours. http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread ... 145&page=2

Dorset Boy wrote:

When cycling has seemingly been trying to clean up its act, it is a shame to see 2 convicted dopers at the top of the GC.

You know what's a shame? That we had to witness that dreaful Tour raced by riders and people that were so busy telling us how clean and great they were with 0 tolerance towards anything related to doping, and then turns out that staff members, doctors and riders are dodgy as hell. What happend to this btw?:

"pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that. Hopefully in 2 years time I might win the Time Trial and be a credible Time Trial winner because I haven't beated someone by 2 minutes. "


And when we finally got to see absolutely fantastic racing today, which by no means suggested anything extraordinary from any of the riders, (even Millar agrees) and if you can't even enjoy a brilliant stage like this because of rider's relations to doping, then that's 80% of every stage winner you'll sit and frown about. Wrong sport to follow. It really is.

mfin

There's not too much point in the doping discussion on this. Time will tell for Contador or it won't. My guess is that it will, and his ban did not make him accountable for the doping he's done. Until then, its bike racing.

ocdupalais

frenchfighter wrote:

Was it only the Bertie fans who got a banner ad beneath that pic offering to "CLEAN YOUR MAC"?

How they knew that that's what the w@nkers would be wearing, I don't know...

frenchfighter

I don't know why riders don't try these long range attacks more often. They break with the tradition and cause people to panic. It also brings tactics into play and often it can mean that the people are isolated from their team thus causing them to do their work.

I wonder how Wiggins would have faired in this race also. With his supreme TT ability, I don't see why he can't use it within stages. Assuming the rest of the field is broken up so there are no huge groups chasing, then why can't he just TT away from everyone.

knedlicky

dsoutar wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

dsoutar wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

mroli wrote:

Yep, unfortunately my complete failure to get excited by this stage is because Contador was banned for a doping offence and now, no matter how I want to, I can't believe in his riding. Gutted.

Watching the wrong race mate.

Please don't tell me you think that this is actually a good thing for pro-cycling

The quality of the racing is, for sure.
Was worried this whole season would be a massive bore-fest.
If you're extremely intolerant to an doping it's the wrong sport for you.

It's not a question extreme intolerance, it's a question of having vague self awareness of double standards. If someone is going to go on an Armstrong or Riis thread tutting about how terrible it all is, critizing riders for not saying anything and crying for justice, then they should at least then have enough sense not to half an hour later cream their pants when a couple of recently convicted cheats put on bit of a show.

I think you under-estimate what I want.
Fans want exciting racing. I'll suspend any doubts I have while I watch what's happening on the road.
Once the glow of the race has worn off I might think a bit more evenly about it, but ultimately I'm a fan and I want enjoyment from it. I put that ahead of avoiding double standards.

FTFY
Not all fans want what you do, as is clearly evidenced by at least some of the postings on here. If you had a choice between universally clean but less aggressive racing, or knowing that there was a good chance that doping was going on in most races but you'd be guaranteed exiting stages - what would you choose ?
I suspect the latter which is why you and I will always differ. If I walk out of a shop and I've been short changed, I get pissed off that I've been taken advantage of and that's how I feel about cyclists who cheat, especially those who don't subsequently show some form of contrition.
Until everyone's attitudes change, and that includes fans, we will always have to deal with cheats.

But when you watched today, it wasn’t the equivalent of you coming out of a shop and then realising you’d been short-changed.

It was the equivalent of you having once visited a shop and coming out satisfied but then having heard someone else got short-changed there, and decided you too then.
So now every time you go to any shop you’re suspicious and can’t enjoy shopping.

mattshrops

Great (and unusual) tactics today. Contador went all out for it today(as he has tried to do all race long) and ultimately deserved to win the stage. Really excellent and exciting stage.

Agree with FF that is definitely an underused tactic.

Dont want to spoil it with ifs or buts.It is what it is.

cal_stewart

I hate contador but that was judged perfectly. Another km and who knows, just with it after the rest day.....................?

symo

How much time did Froome lose? 5 minutes?

Richmond Racer

Yeah. Froome lost 4:58 to be precise. Lost 10 secs to Moreno.

Am cheered with Henao's peformance though.

reallyarunner

Gutted for J Rod.

ddraver

Sitting in a restaurant in Siberia explaining how the numbers for cycling look better and the races are slower and the big doping attacks don't happen anymore

Glance up and they ve put the Vuelta on....

Well fucks that then

oneof1982

Just got in a watched this. Reminded me of Stage 17 of the 2006 tour, but hope I'm wrong.

zammmmo

have only just seen the stage highlights. amazing statement by Contador...when he was being interviewed at the end, havent seen him look that tired since the 2010 TDF final TT. if he's on the hot sauce he's hiding it pretty well with his demeanour. looking forward to seeing where he goes from here and what he does in 2013 against SKy.

rozzer32

J Rod staying in bed on the rest day and not going out for a spin, what a rookie error.

davidof

Anyone got an idea of the approx power outputs today?

Pross

I'm going to suspend disbelief and enjoy that as one of the best GT stages in years. History suggests I'll end up disappointed for my head in the sand approach but no matter what happens in the future I can't help but admire that ride by Bert and Valverde's come back. I think any lingering suspiscion of Froome / Sky goes out of the window after that, even with 4 riders they were losing time to J Rod who was effectively riding solo and who in turn was losing time to Bertie who was also solo! The thing that surprised me more than J Rod letting the initial attack go is how few team mates he had to help try to bring it back. Any suggestion of illness in the team? Can't help feeling sorry for J Rod and hope he can take the fight to Bertie and Valv on Sunday.

blazing_saddles

Reading this thread, I thought I must have clicked on the Asylum by mistake.

Other than a daring change of tactic, I didn't see anything different in Contador's level of performance
than from the three big mountain stages.
He left it all on the road, today.

The really difference was with JRod (and his team) having a collective stinker.

If I was offering odds on the dodgiest of the trio, I'd put Valverde as way out ahead favourite.

Best GT stage since the 2010 Giro.

Lichtblick

rozzer32 wrote:

J Rod staying in bed on the rest day and not going out for a spin, what a rookie error.

Uh? I read this earlier, from Rick:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apparently Contador didn't ride his bike AT ALL on the rest day.

Mikey23

Hmmm ... Great stage and amazing performance. Even more surprising considering he's clean now. I've given up on this one, some things never change. I think they've earned their doggy bags tonight ....

rozzer32

Lichtblick wrote:

rozzer32 wrote:

J Rod staying in bed on the rest day and not going out for a spin, what a rookie error.

Uh? I read this earlier, from Rick:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apparently Contador didn't ride his bike AT ALL on the rest day.

Really? Thought the whole point of going out on the rest days was to stop your legs going into total recovery mode. Even sky go out on the rest day and we all know how much they love the marginal gains.

Lichtblick

In the interim few hours, I have realised who that stage win reminded me of.

Vino!

Do or Die attacks, fearlessly charging away from 10km+ out, making the commentators gobble, surging onwards, WINNING THE STAGE!

I miss that style. Oh, missed that style until today.

And when Vino won the Gold medal at the Olympics, I laughed and laughed and laughed. Good old Vino. Typical, and typically in-your-face, here-I-AM-GUYS, ha ha.

Yeah, so, Vino shamelessly drugged and was banned and then returned. But he has style and charm; two things utterly lacking in ......who was it?.....some yank?.....him with the wristbands and no sense of humour whatsoever.

(Now bring on the anti-Vino squad. I don't care. I've always liked him, somehow.)

Lichtblick

rozzer32 wrote:

Lichtblick wrote:

rozzer32 wrote:

J Rod staying in bed on the rest day and not going out for a spin, what a rookie error.

Uh? I read this earlier, from Rick:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apparently Contador didn't ride his bike AT ALL on the rest day.

Really? Thought the whole point of going out on the rest days was to stop your legs going into total recovery mode. Even sky go out on the rest day and we all know how much they love the marginal gains.

Yep, it's on page 3 of this thread, that's where I found it.

Rick knows Every Thing.