Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

LangerDan

Richmond Racer wrote:

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

So it is all North American riders.

Maybe that was because it was a USADA investigation FF?

As Iain has said, many Europeans already busted. Also Mantova and Puerto still to come - plenty of stuff still to come out

And in the meantime, the news that a French rider on a French squad has a positive A sample for EPO is lost in all the noise about LA.

Richmond Racer

Anyone watching Tour of Beijing right now? Harmon saying he's not going to make any comment as he hasnt had time to read the report etc. Smith saying nothing - or not being given the chance, perhaps.

ARE THEY KIDDING????

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

Lance had this released on the same day to try and cover some of it:
http://mediaroom.livestrong.org/press-r ... rs-0940424

Iain, when you say Italian docs, what are you referring to?

There are a few in the USADA supporting documents. They're fairly obvious when you look at the site. Can't get to them at the moment.

frenchfighter

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8487101
w/ USADA's Travis Tygart, Lance's lawyer Tim Herman, Bonnie Ford & legat expert Lester Munson — espn

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... ther-doped
B Ford

davidof

LangerDan wrote:

Given that Saugy seemed to know at that stage whose sample it was and that is was "suspicious", why would he even agree to meet the athlete involved?

He's Swiss, probably looking for a pay-off.

Richmond Racer

Jensie's just been on Twitter before getting on a plane. Got to hand it to the guy - he knows what he's going to get

in response to one tweet: '@TCorbett2908: You ask if I doped?? OK here is the answer. No I did not dope in the past, I dont do it now and not planing it in the future'

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

Jensie's just been on Twitter before getting on a plane. Got to hand it to the guy - he knows what he's going to get

in response to one tweet: '@TCorbett2908: You ask if I doped?? OK here is the answer. No I did not dope in the past, I dont do it now and not planing it in the future'

Odious creature

IMO

I'm sure he's a lovely bloke.

blazing_saddles

Richmond Racer wrote:

Anyone watching Tour of Beijing right now? Harmon saying he's not going to make any comment as he hasnt had time to read the report etc. Smith saying nothing - or not being given the chance, perhaps.

ARE THEY KIDDING????

The same two were commentating, when news of USADA's charges broke: they said nothing.
Again, they are mute because of claimed ignorance, but clearly twitter tells a different story.
At least, in the case of Armstrong, they are being consistent.

Funnily enough, I was watching stage 12 of the 2008 TDF, yesterday.
The one that carried the news of Ricco's positive and SD's withdrawal from the race.

Harmon's commentary is extremely "knee jerk" and extensive.
On top of tearing the Cobra a new one, lots of talk about the riders being unable to try,
surprise that the roadside crowds appear so large and unaffected plus of mass protests from the fans, come the Alps.....

Gazzetta67

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Anyone watching Tour of Beijing right now? Harmon saying he's not going to make any comment as he hasnt had time to read the report etc. Smith saying nothing - or not being given the chance, perhaps.

ARE THEY KIDDING????

The same two were commentating, when news of USADA's charges broke: they said nothing.
Again, they are mute because of claimed ignorance, but clearly twitter tells a different story.
At least, in the case of Armstrong, they are being consistent.

Funnily enough, I was watching stage 12 of the 2008 TDF, yesterday.
The one that carried the news of Ricco's positive and SD's withdrawal from the race.

Harmon's commentary is extremely "knee jerk" and extensive.
On top of tearing the Cobra a new one, lots of talk about the riders being unable to try,
surprise that the roadside crowds appear so large and unaffected plus of mass protests from the fans, come the Alps.....

And Harmon's hate for Vino in nearly every comeback race that he rode...As For Smith well am not surprised as he's ALWAYS telling us he rode with Pharmstrong..and i know he comes on here, So Brian spare us the "That was in the past time to move forward crap eh".

jerry3571

Just need to clarify about stealing Ferrari's?? I'm a bit confused here?? I think one theft of a Ferarri is called is called kidnapping and the other is called car theft . Sorry if this confuses the issue further.





Jerry

jonomc4

From Levi's statement:

"When Usada came to me and described a solution—where my admission could be part of a bigger plan that would make the positive changes we've seen in recent years permanent—I said "I need to be involved." I don't want today's 13 year olds to be discouraged by their parents from dreaming about one day riding the Tour de France."

To be honest - maybe at the end of all this - we everyday cyclist and spectators owe a debt of gratitude to the USADA. I am certainly grateful to them for helping to bring this all out in the open - the UCI looks like it was never going to make the step unless forced.

heavymental

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Jensie's just been on Twitter before getting on a plane. Got to hand it to the guy - he knows what he's going to get

in response to one tweet: '@TCorbett2908: You ask if I doped?? OK here is the answer. No I did not dope in the past, I dont do it now and not planing it in the future'

Odious creature

IMO

I'm sure he's a lovely bloke.

Who's an odious creature? I p[resume you mean TCorbett2908? Who is that?

Spiny_Norman

frenchfighter wrote:

And why does Hincap and Barry go clean after 2006. Sacred by Landis maybe.

Also both (and others say) 'deeply regret' - this is very weak - if it really bothered them they wouldn't have done it in the first place and would have stopped riding in 2006 in disgust, or talked about it then. Oh, actually no, because they were still getting paid big bucks.

Absolutely. Much better to just carry on denying it and blame it all on a dodgy steak.

Stretch0212

frenchfighter wrote:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8487169/usada-report-lance-armstrong-end-debate-whether-doped
B Ford

Brilliant article & especially these last two paragraphs for those unbelievers with there heads still in the sand, a few people on this board would do well to heed...


"Odds are Armstrong ultimately will be stripped of his Tour de France titles, but the extent of doping in that era renders moot who would inherit them. Forfeiting prize money and results? A pittance compared to the millions Armstrong made off the road, which he is under no obligation to return. Inability to compete in elite sports? Armstrong will always find a place to race and people who want to race with him, or at least come to watch. He is stubborn enough to be capable of existing indefinitely in a sort of parallel universe where he is still who he purported to be -- a purveyor of hope on wheels.

And there will always be people who loved those three-week travelogues every July and don't want to give up on their longtime protagonist, either. Sunflowers and lavender and Alpine switchbacks are far more appealing images than syringes and blood bags and a cult of personality channeled into coercion. Armstrong's legacy lies now not only in the eye of the beholder but in the willingness of that beholder to take off the blinders and see."

Sums it & their attitudes up quite succinctly IMHO

iainf72

Heavymental wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Jensie's just been on Twitter before getting on a plane. Got to hand it to the guy - he knows what he's going to get

in response to one tweet: '@TCorbett2908: You ask if I doped?? OK here is the answer. No I did not dope in the past, I dont do it now and not planing it in the future'

Odious creature

IMO

I'm sure he's a lovely bloke.

Who's an odious creature? I p[resume you mean TCorbett2908? Who is that?

No, Jens.

andyp

Jens is a big fan of the truth, I believe.

Maybe one day he'll be truthful.

calvjones

Stretch0212 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8487169/usada-report-lance-armstrong-end-debate-whether-doped
B Ford

Brilliant article & especially these last two paragraphs for those unbelievers with there heads still in the sand, a few people on this board would do well to heed...

yeah but those people are notorious by their absence on this thread. 8)

mfin

5Live 7.00pm on Monday is a 2hr Documentary on it all.

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

Jens is a big fan of the truth, I believe.

Maybe one day he'll be truthful.

What makes you believe he was/is a doper?

frenchfighter

All these docs are great reading. Going to go through all of them.

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

What makes you believe he was/is a doper?

The company he's kept, and continues to keep. The results he's had. His response to any question about whether he doped or not. The era in which he's ridden.

Shall I go on?

ContrelaMontre

andyp wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

What makes you believe he was/is a doper?

The company he's kept, and continues to keep. The results he's had. His response to any question about whether he doped or not. The era in which he's ridden.

Shall I go on?

Guilty by association. I think your conclusions are probably sensible, but I wonder how he has continued to perform so well in the latter part of his career. Is he so strong now because the peloton is less doped up these days?

blazing_saddles

Nicked from the Clinic. Although it's a rough translation of Bertagnolli's testimony, it Ferrari-centric
and more rider names:

* Bertagnolli started working with Ferrari in 2006, to have his thyroid problems treated.

* In July 2007, he went to St. Moritz to see Ferrari, who provided him with EPO, to be injected intravenously. Bertolini, Chicchi, Gasparotto and Pellizotti were with him in St. Moritz. Bertagnolli also recalls seeing Vinokourov and a group of other cyclists with Ferrari in Livigno, 2006.

* Bertagnolli started taking EPO in 2003, as advised by doctor Manelli, but in a very amateuristic way: Ferrari showed him how to use the product properly, in order not to test positive.

* A lot of Bertagnolli's Liquigas colleagues also went to Ferrari: he names Pellizotti, Chicchi, Gasparotto... and Kreuziger. He recalls seeing Popovych and Bileka at Ferrari's house and also mentions Morris Possoni.

* In 2007 Bertagnolli started with blood transfusions. Ferrari told him which refrigerator to buy to store his blood in the best way (at the right temperature). He stored his blood in plastic bags. He affirms he did not transfuse blood prior to working with Ferrari, and it scared him a lot.

* In 2008 Liquigas forbid its riders to work with Ferrari, so Bertagnolli only performed a single transfusion. In 2009 he did "some", in 2010 the transfusions were three.

* Bertagnolli met Ferrari at the end of 2010. Ferrari told him to "throw away all evidence", because he knew of the ongoing Popovych investigation. Ferrari told him to consider using polypropylene blood bags or "flebi di vetro" (an object in glass used for transfusions).

August 27, 2010: in an intercepted conversation in Ferrari's mobile camper, Ferrari and Bertagnolli talk about a number of riders and doping practices:

* Bertagnolli says "everybody is going a little slower"; Ferrari says it's because the riders don't take EPO anymore

* Bertagnolli says "Pozzovivo hurts us on the climbs"; Ferrari says it's because he weighs about 50 kg; Bertagnolli answers he never ever saw him do things like that, "he's all muscles"

* Ferrari says some riders are using AICAR, but the product can be detected and it has to be imported

* Bertagnolli says the product comes from Slovenia; he names Grega Bole and Spilak as possible users, and also Chiarini

* Ferrari thinks it's madness to use AICAR because the molecule is easily detectable

(some less important parts and an interruption in the registration)

* Bertagnolli thinks "for Scarponi it's important to see how the Petacchi case will pan out"

* Ferrari responds Petacchi is in trouble although Bernucci took all of the blame

* Bertagnolli thinks it's incredible some riders still go to Manelli (the first doping doctor Bertagnolli himself consulted): Astarloa, Bernucci, Celestino and Honchar were some of his clients, and they all tested positive

* Ferrari asserts the Mapei Lab is a joke and the tests there don't prove anything

* Retacrit is another detectable EPO molecule; Maccanti and Biondo have been found positive for NESP after using Retacrit and thus, Ferrari thinks it's a molecule for "suicidal fools"; he wonders why the testers don't always detect it

Another conversation, September 28, 2010 (due to technical problems the Italian police only recorded the first 30 minutes of the conversation):

* Ferrari shows he's better at interpreting blood data than the UCI

* Ferrari is "obsessively monitoring" the blood data of his clients

Some pages seem to be missing here, or I didn't read the document too well.

December 1, 2010, another conversation:

* Ferrari asks Bertagnolli which blood bags he used, Contador might have used bags in PVC, Bertagnolli has been using polypropylene bags which are not detectable, so he's not in trouble

* some stuff about blood transfusions, no details

* riders who want to dope can't go to Teide anymore because the place is "bruciata" - monitored and known by the antidoping authorities

* Ferrari speculates someone in the lab might have spiked Contador's blood with clenbuterol

* Bertagnolli asks if Contador might have used Actovegin, but Ferrari says no; "Actovegin is made of calf's blood, normally they don't use clen for that"

andyp

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Guilty by association. I think your conclusions are probably sensible, but I wonder how he has continued to perform so well in the latter part of his career. Is he so strong now because the peloton is less doped up these days?

Perhaps he's still doping?

Many are.

lloyd_bower

iainf72 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

So the evidence turned up by USADA whilst investigating an American on an American team is mainly from Americans.and, for you, this is surprising and points to Europeans being cleaner?

Theres none so blind as he who will not see

And most of the Europeans who were on the team have already been bust.

True. Dumb n dumber. Some continue to blame on juicy steak.

ContrelaMontre

andyp wrote:

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Guilty by association. I think your conclusions are probably sensible, but I wonder how he has continued to perform so well in the latter part of his career. Is he so strong now because the peloton is less doped up these days?

Perhaps he's still doping?

Many are.

Indeed there are at least two ways of interpreting it, but I don't want to say anything libellous.

On the other hand, I can say what I like about LA now. To put it in terms he'd appreciate, a tumour has been cut out of the sport by his ban, but the cancer is still present.

carrock

http://newsthump.com/2012/10/11/lance-a ... ourniquet/

slim_boy_fat

Kirby not holding back.

@carltonkirby Lance turned dreams into reality. Sadly that "reality" was just a dream. We've woken up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMgVK-1fBD4 …

oneof1982

Yates on 5Live this morning. "I never saw nuffin" :shock:

TheStone

oneof1982 wrote:

Yates on 5Live this morning. "I never saw nuffin" :shock:

Shocking.

They had DB on last night saying much the same. Was shocked by what came out. Seriously?