Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped
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Pinno wrote:
Personally, I think LA's admission on Oprah was a carefully calculated plan. Better to come clean on TV than be found out in a court room as a liar.Rick Chasey wrote:Pinno wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:https://deadspin.com/the-ridiculous-saga-of-lance-armstrong-the-cheater-who-1802288537
A fun long read on deadspin.
Had no idea he dated Ivanka Trump though.. :shock:
Gives a healthy perspective on what people whine about now.
I've just sat here and read that whole article.
If anyone is thinking of reading it, don't bother.
Not a fan?
To me, LA verges on psychopath.
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I don’t think there’s much verging at all0 -
Shipley wrote:tonyf34 wrote:
No one can ignore the fact that they were all at it, not just him - and still he won, and won and won so it wasn’t just the doping that got him all those jerseys.
The difference is a) post 98 every toned it down for Le Tour apart from one team
b) EPO was seen as more of a game changer that could boost also rans into repeat winners. It wasnt just a pick me up for a 3 three race it fully transformed sprinters into climners, pack fodder into classics winners etc.0 -
I've never seen much real evidence for a) tho
Smacks a bit of the Stuart oGrady type line of 'i only tried it once or twice' without mentioning that those times just happened to be just before Paris-Roubaix*
*Other riders with Similar excuses at availableWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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sherer wrote:Shipley wrote:tonyf34 wrote:
No one can ignore the fact that they were all at it, not just him - and still he won, and won and won so it wasn’t just the doping that got him all those jerseys.
The difference is a) post 98 every toned it down for Le Tour apart from one team
b) EPO was seen as more of a game changer that could boost also rans into repeat winners. It wasnt just a pick me up for a 3 three race it fully transformed sprinters into climners, pack fodder into classics winners etc.
There was a ‘biological buffer’ though. It depended massively on how the rider responded to it.0 -
WADA twist the knife they stuck in Johan...
https://twitter.com/JohanBruyneel/statu ... 11168?s=19
Slightly sympathise....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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What does the UCI say about this?
Surely, it's entirely down to them. It's inconceivable that WADA is of higher authority than the UCI in cycling. Or is it?
It's somewhat hypocritical to allow Landis* to manage a cycling team when he was stripped of his TdF win and yet give a lifetime ban to Bruyneel.
I say 'somewhat' because LA was the biggest doper of all (apparently) so then it all becomes relative. Flawed relativism like: If someone had a haematocrit level above 54%, then he should face a lifetime ban and someone below 54% but above 50% should get a 5 year ban and so on... But you see what I am saying.
*Add: Riis, Vinokourov, etc etc.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
When it comes to doping, then WADA trumps the UCI, so it's completely conceivable. The UCI are a signatory to the WADA code, which takes the application of doping penalties away from national and international governing bodies.Pinno wrote:What does the UCI say about this?
Surely, it's entirely down to them. It's inconceivable that WADA is of higher authority than the UCI in cycling. Or is it?0 -
So CAS decision here - https://www.scribd.com/document/3915431 ... n-Oct-2018
I was perhaps a bit light on details...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Pinno wrote:It's somewhat hypocritical to allow Landis* to manage a cycling team when he was stripped of his TdF win and yet give a lifetime ban to Bruyneel.
*Add: Riis, Vinokourov, etc etc.
I don't think so. They were individuals who doped while riding (in many cases as part of a team-organised thing) whereas Bruyneel oversaw the most successful team doping program in history. I'm not keen to see Riis and Vino running teams but I don't think what they did as riders matches what Bruyneel has done as a DS.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Riis was sending / encouraging riders to go to Fuentes.
Vino runs a team that's had multiple doping issues.
Are they any less complicit than Bruyneel as managers / DSs?0 -
YorkshireRaw wrote:Riis was sending / encouraging riders to go to Fuentes.
Vino runs a team that's had multiple doping issues.
Are they any less complicit than Bruyneel as managers / DSs?
Ekimov runs Katusha and he is full old school Russian and was on Postal all the way thro'. Vino was selling/buying wins so I can't see the difference but somehow Armstrong/Bruyneel seem to be Satan. Yet Russia who run a State sponsored system with duplicate labs and breaking and entry get a pass.0 -
amrushton wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Riis was sending / encouraging riders to go to Fuentes.
Vino runs a team that's had multiple doping issues.
Are they any less complicit than Bruyneel as managers / DSs?
Ekimov runs Katusha and he is full old school Russian and was on Postal all the way thro'. Vino was selling/buying wins so I can't see the difference but somehow Armstrong/Bruyneel seem to be Satan. Yet Russia who run a State sponsored system with duplicate labs and breaking and entry get a pass.
Eki doesn't run Katusha. They booted him out in 2016. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ekimov- ... l-manager/0 -
its not what you do its the way that you do it.
Armstrongs doping was aggravated by his people damaging and utterly ruthless and aggressive punishments he meted out. it was aggravated by drawing in the support of large sponsors such that people who pushed back were left unemployable and potentially bankrupt. he is a cock.
Frankly i was disappointed that Ulrich got busted but he went about things in a different way.
Saying all cheating or doping should be treated the same way is naive.0 -
dish_dash wrote:amrushton wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Riis was sending / encouraging riders to go to Fuentes.
Vino runs a team that's had multiple doping issues.
Are they any less complicit than Bruyneel as managers / DSs?
Ekimov runs Katusha and he is full old school Russian and was on Postal all the way thro'. Vino was selling/buying wins so I can't see the difference but somehow Armstrong/Bruyneel seem to be Satan. Yet Russia who run a State sponsored system with duplicate labs and breaking and entry get a pass.
Eki doesn't run Katusha. They booted him out in 2016. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ekimov- ... l-manager/
They didn't boot him out. He left to become President of the Russian Cycling Federation, a post he still holds. He was also appointed to the UCI's Pro Cycling Council by the UCI Management Committee.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Vino'sGhost wrote:its not what you do its the way that you do it.
Armstrongs doping was aggravated by his people damaging and utterly ruthless and aggressive punishments he meted out. it was aggravated by drawing in the support of large sponsors such that people who pushed back were left unemployable and potentially bankrupt. he is a fool.
Frankly i was disappointed that Ulrich got busted but he went about things in a different way.
Saying all cheating or doping should be treated the same way is naive.
That's not what they're saying though is it, they're saying other people did equally or nearly equally bad things but seem to have been given a free pass.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:Vino'sGhost wrote:its not what you do its the way that you do it.
Armstrongs doping was aggravated by his people damaging and utterly ruthless and aggressive punishments he meted out. it was aggravated by drawing in the support of large sponsors such that people who pushed back were left unemployable and potentially bankrupt. he is a fool.
Frankly i was disappointed that Ulrich got busted but he went about things in a different way.
Saying all cheating or doping should be treated the same way is naive.
That's not what they're saying though is it, they're saying other people did equally or nearly equally bad things but seem to have been given a free pass.
yes I know what theyre saying, my point is that what Armstrong did was aggravated by the way he did it and the scale of his cover up including the scale of the operation behind him to allow him to do it. eg speeding in a 30 at 90 is bad, corrupting officials and other people to travel at 90 in a 30 is bad plus.0 -
Giant Trance X 2010
Specialized Tricross Sport
My Dad's old racer
Trek Marlin 29er 20120 -
the article don wrote:
Brad loves Jiffy bags0 -
I doubt SBW could have written anything else that gave him this much free publicity for the book?
Baffles me that people can’t understand the context but I guess it suits an agenda they have.2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
The more I know, the less I understand.0
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CarbonClem wrote:I doubt SBW could have written anything else that gave him this much free publicity for the book?
Baffles me that people can’t understand the context but I guess it suits an agenda they have.
Yes though I suppose he'd have to balance the free publicity with the risk it reinforces the negative opinion some now have of him. I hope he doesn't disappear from public life because the media feel he's tainted - he's more of a character than most who get work around pro racing coverage - though I suppose he may not need the money.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
the article don wrote:
You lot don’t get his point do you?
For once he’s actually making a lot of sense.
As a teenager growing up watching Lance in the peloton, it’s very easy to see why he could be a huge inspiration.
Believe it or not, Wiggins comes across as someone who likes bike racing for bike racing and as a fan was more interested in the racing then the biochemistry.
I mean, how f@cking outrageous. Don’t be so thick guys. It’s not a difficult view to understand.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:the article don wrote:
You lot don’t get his point do you?
For once he’s actually making a lot of sense.
As a teenager growing up watching Lance in the peloton, it’s very easy to see why he could be a huge inspiration.
Believe it or not, Wiggins comes across as someone who likes bike racing for bike racing and as a fan was more interested in the racing then the biochemistry.
I mean, how f@cking outrageous. Don’t be so thick guys. It’s not a difficult view to understand.
The overblown reaction reminds me of a friend of my ex who was asked by a local BBC TV reporter whether she was as angry as other parents about a kids club closing because of local authority cuts. She says she was outraged and it was disgusting. As she wheeled her pushchair away she realised that she’d never used the club and in reality didn’t give a toss.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:the article don wrote:
You lot don’t get his point do you?
For once he’s actually making a lot of sense.
As a teenager growing up watching Lance in the peloton, it’s very easy to see why he could be a huge inspiration.
Believe it or not, Wiggins comes across as someone who likes bike racing for bike racing and as a fan was more interested in the racing then the biochemistry.
I mean, how f@cking outrageous. Don’t be so thick guys. It’s not a difficult view to understand.
Exactly, that's why growing up I loved Donald Trump, because he had a private passenger jet, skyscraper, blondes and a cycling race named after him. Look at him now a complete inspiration. He's like the pinnacle of politicians, the Lance of the Pro racer.0 -
Genuine LOL0
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Built on shifting sands.0
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How is that analogous?
You’re an idiot if you don’t see that you can enjoy a ride as it occurs real time, regardless of what you find avoud what was behind it afterwards, mainly because, what happens afterwards is after the event, so unless you’ve got a portal into the future, you don’t know that while you’re watching it.
An analogy with trump that works for you is “although I enjoyed Trump on the apprentice at the time,because of his presidency I have decided to lie to myself about me liking him on the apprentice to make me feel better about my past self”0 -
I would have thought that was obvious. Talking about LA with the now hindsight as an Icon of pro cycling, especially when you still have influence on a younger generation. Do you want kids growing up to hero worship the psychopaths of society?0
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FocusZing wrote:I would have thought that was obvious, talking about LA with the now hindsight as an Icon of pro cycling. Especially when you still have influence on a younger generation. Do you want kids growing up to hero worship the psychopaths of society?
I don’t think Armstrong is a psychopath - but to use your terminology, “psychopaths of society” are often those that are hero worshiped: check out “National Hero” Winston Churchill’s palmares, for a start... Their “psychopathy” is usually applied retrospectively when folk have got their achievements/methodology in perspective.
I would’ve thought it would be much more pertinent to teach your kids to not be a massive bellend to start with. And in so doing, that would eradicate 95% of celebrities as role models for a start.0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:FocusZing wrote:I would have thought that was obvious, talking about LA with the now hindsight as an Icon of pro cycling. Especially when you still have influence on a younger generation. Do you want kids growing up to hero worship the psychopaths of society?
I don’t think Armstrong is a psychopath - but to use your terminology, “psychopaths of society” are often those that are hero worshiped: check out “National Hero” Winston Churchill’s palmares, for a start... Their “psychopathy” is usually applied retrospectively when folk have got their achievements/methodology in perspective.
I would’ve thought it would be much more pertinent to teach your kids to not be a massive bellend to start with. And in so doing, that would eradicate 95% of celebrities as role models for a start.
So is LA a pro cycling icon you want your kids to admire and look up to?0
