Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped
Comments
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Not really. They cheated with their own money. Once it got paid to them it stopped being government money.redvision wrote:Wasn't this case brought because US Postal was a government funded company and Armstrong and co were using the sponsorship money to fund their doping program which propelled the team to win races, therefore cheating through tax payer money??Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Not really. They cheated with their own money. Once it got paid to them it stopped being government money.redvision wrote:Wasn't this case brought because US Postal was a government funded company and Armstrong and co were using the sponsorship money to fund their doping program which propelled the team to win races, therefore cheating through tax payer money??
But the public money was paying the salaries of riders who were cheating. That's the be all and end of why the govt were suing him, under the false claims act. At least that was my simplified understanding of the case.0 -
redvision wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Not really. They cheated with their own money. Once it got paid to them it stopped being government money.redvision wrote:Wasn't this case brought because US Postal was a government funded company and Armstrong and co were using the sponsorship money to fund their doping program which propelled the team to win races, therefore cheating through tax payer money??
But the public money was paying the salaries of riders who were cheating. That's the be all and end of why the govt were suing him, under the false claims act. At least that was my simplified understanding of the case.
Correct.
Rich is in denial0 -
The point being made is that USPS paid money to the team in return for having their brand publicised which happened. Once that money is passed to the team it is theirs to use as the team see fit and is no longer Government money. Plenty of rules were broken and there may well have been breach of contract but does that amount to fraud and, if so, was it down to Armstrong or the team management?0
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I think it's completely disingenuous to suggest that once the money has been handed over the government loses all interest in how it is spent.RichN95 wrote:
Not really. They cheated with their own money. Once it got paid to them it stopped being government money.redvision wrote:Wasn't this case brought because US Postal was a government funded company and Armstrong and co were using the sponsorship money to fund their doping program which propelled the team to win races, therefore cheating through tax payer money??
The specifics on how they can have any control would depend on the law and the contract I guess, but if the government funds a company (any company) which does something bad with that money it's bad for the government's reputation. I don't really understand why that needs to be stated, it's obvious.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:
I think it's completely disingenuous to suggest that once the money has been handed over the government loses all interest in how it is spent.RichN95 wrote:
Not really. They cheated with their own money. Once it got paid to them it stopped being government money.redvision wrote:Wasn't this case brought because US Postal was a government funded company and Armstrong and co were using the sponsorship money to fund their doping program which propelled the team to win races, therefore cheating through tax payer money??
The specifics on how they can have any control would depend on the law and the contract I guess, but if the government funds a company (any company) which does something bad with that money it's bad for the government's reputation. I don't really understand why that needs to be stated, it's obvious.
He’s in denial, he’s the same way with wiggins.0 -
What do the decriers feel is the correct solution to all this? All parties involved AGREED on this settlement, so we move on ...
Except that ends the circus and a few of you still think LA ‘owes’ professional cycling (maybe even, somehow, you, yourself) something ... What would make it right for you to move on?
LA was technically just a pawn in the game ... Amaury, Nike, Trek, Oakley, Giro ... even probably the UCI all made more money than LA out of the glory years ... I think that’s where your ire should now be directed ...
Is LA a bit of a d!ck, of course he is ... but he should be able to get on with his life and podcasts or whatever, just the same as every other ex pro whose skeletons are buried in red tape or a career where testing didn’t exist ...Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
Probably yes. I think we should stop giving the guy oxygen.type:epyt wrote:What do the decriers feel is the correct solution to all this? All parties involved AGREED on this settlement, so we move on ...0 -
You want to suffocate him? That’s a bit harsh. He only cheated at a game.bobmcstuff wrote:
Probably yes. I think we should stop giving the guy oxygen.type:epyt wrote:What do the decriers feel is the correct solution to all this? All parties involved AGREED on this settlement, so we move on ...Twitter: @RichN950 -
OCDuPalais wrote:Never met either of them, but LA has already had his comeuppance: stripped naked in front of the world. He seems to have at least had a smidgen of an evolution in terms of character (but maybe that’s just age and fatherhood?). Landis is just a sly nihilist: he had been walking around naked ever since his 2006 bust. He could do well to acquire some sort of attribute before he’s 50. At least now he can buy some.
Nicely put. Larry admits, usually at least once a podcast, that he done wrong.
Landis (and don't get me started on sodding Rassmussen) still think they re victims and did nothing wrong.
Armstrong is by far the bigger man...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:Armstrong is by far the bigger man...
I think you are falling for his game plan.0 -
this is why fake news and social media are so corrosive, people are so easily manipulated.0
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A better man than Floyd Landis - has there ever been a finer accolade to aspire to?0
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KingstonGraham wrote:A better man than Floyd Landis - has there ever been a finer accolade to aspire to?
The fundamental issue at the bottom of this eh?
He's a dirty cheating lying doper, but hey at least he's not a whiny dirty cheating lying doper...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
RichN95 wrote:He says he's going to go to Israel for the Giro start. He'll also be doing his podcast for the Giro now he doesn't have to go to court.
get your tissues out Rich0 -
RichN95 wrote:He says he's going to go to Israel for the Giro start. .
Armstrong. Israel. Giro
Is this a parallel universe :shock:0 -
And to think podium girls were an issue.SpecialGuestStar wrote:RichN95 wrote:He says he's going to go to Israel for the Giro start. .
Armstrong. Israel. Giro
Is this a parallel universe :shock:The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Isn't Vegni still trying to reclaim the $2 million dollar fee he paid Armstrong to ride the Giro in 2009?0
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https://deadspin.com/the-ridiculous-sag ... 1802288537
A fun long read on deadspin.
Had no idea he dated Ivanka Trump though.. :shock:
Gives a healthy perspective on what people whine about now.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:https://deadspin.com/the-ridiculous-saga-of-lance-armstrong-the-cheater-who-1802288537
A fun long read on deadspin.
Had no idea he dated Ivanka Trump though.. :shock:
Gives a healthy perspective on what people whine about now.
I've just sat here and read that whole article.
If anyone is thinking of reading it, don't bother.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
The sad thing about all of this is that without doping more than their rivals the Armstrong led team would have given far less value to USPS.
1998 was a massively important time for USPS, the market place for them with respect to express postage was being eroded at a huge rate of knots and there was an awful lot going wrong at all levels, they had a massive pow-wow with a 5 year plan to 2002 to turn the tide. I honestly think that the exposure and Kudos that came with the success of the cycling team had a very positive impact not just financially but also in image at a time when they needed it the most and helped in no small part to get them back on track.
The naivety of people to suggest USPS lost out in this is laughable, this is about saving face and making sure someone got a slap, in fact USPS wouldn't have had any crud slung their way, they came out of this totally clean and without penalty for backing a sports team that was well known the sport itself was rife with doping, they can plead ignorance but the doping was well known so they went in either knowing or ignoring the truth.
If Armstrong et al didn't dope they'd be also rans and USPS would've lost out massively.
He should get his titles back anyway as it's ludicrous hypocrisy by the governing bodies given we know that some of their favourite sons were doping all the time and in Merckx case caught 3 times at big races (and one smaller one) and denied it as well as being a bully. The biggest dope cheat of his era clearly and made a lot of brass from it too.0 -
tonyf34 wrote:He should get his titles back anyway as it's ludicrous hypocrisy by the governing bodies given we know that some of their favourite sons were doping all the time and in Merckx case caught 3 times at big races (and one smaller one) and denied it as well as being a bully. The biggest dope cheat of his era clearly and made a lot of brass from it too.
The sport had to make an example and LA was not just a cheat, he was a ring leader, a bully and a very, very nasty man. A homopathic liar who threated to sue and destroy anyone who challenged his lie.
Regardless of whether Merckx, Pantani cheated, they did not use the same terror tactics as LA.
LA is history, he's gone. His legacy is the UCI finally had the balls to invoke the ultimate sanction which is why he can't be reinstated.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
Bo Duke wrote:tonyf34 wrote:He should get his titles back anyway as it's ludicrous hypocrisy by the governing bodies given we know that some of their favourite sons were doping all the time and in Merckx case caught 3 times at big races (and one smaller one) and denied it as well as being a bully. The biggest dope cheat of his era clearly and made a lot of brass from it too.
The sport had to make an example and LA was not just a cheat, he was a ring leader, a bully and a very, very nasty man. A homopathic liar who threated to sue and destroy anyone who challenged his lie.
Regardless of whether Merckx, Pantani cheated, they did not use the same terror tactics as LA.
LA is history, he's gone. His legacy is the UCI finally had the balls to invoke the ultimate sanction which is why he can't be reinstated.
Quite.0 -
Pinno wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:https://deadspin.com/the-ridiculous-saga-of-lance-armstrong-the-cheater-who-1802288537
A fun long read on deadspin.
Had no idea he dated Ivanka Trump though.. :shock:
Gives a healthy perspective on what people whine about now.
I've just sat here and read that whole article.
If anyone is thinking of reading it, don't bother.
Not a fan?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Pinno wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:https://deadspin.com/the-ridiculous-saga-of-lance-armstrong-the-cheater-who-1802288537
A fun long read on deadspin.
Had no idea he dated Ivanka Trump though.. :shock:
Gives a healthy perspective on what people whine about now.
I've just sat here and read that whole article.
If anyone is thinking of reading it, don't bother.
Not a fan?
Well, apart from being a good summary of all the things we know and a time line chucked in, what profound conclusion was reached, if any?
He also said that 'Armstrong destroyed his rivals' in a manner which suggested that as the others were doping, well, it was a level playing field and therefore he was above the rest in terms of ability.
Not sure I agree.
"The combined winning margins of Armstrong’s seven Tour de France wins is 39 minutes and 40 seconds. The dude went seven Tours without falling, f*cking up catastrophically, or even having a bad day. Cycling is a sport about not losing as much as it is about winning, and Lance never lost. That takes luck, yes, but also incredible focus and skill, which are attributes that have nothing to do with taking or not taking EPO. What Armstrong did between 1999 and 2005 is not a mirage. He faced a cadre of worthy adversaries and destroyed them all."
The author refers to him a s a 'dude'?" Slightly inexplicable really. That can only be interpreted as someone who actually admires LA.
I only hope the G Lemond and his wife can force a settlement out of LA.
I also don't think that the threats, lies and everything that happened off the bike have persuaded that the author that winning was going to be achieved by any means by LA, fair or foul (mainly foul) and that makes LA an odious character.
Personally, I think LA's admission on Oprah was a carefully calculated plan. Better to come clean on TV than be found out in a court room as a liar.
To me, LA verges on psychopath.
[Bit clumsy in bits - soz. Been working 13 days in a row but i'm sure you understand my sentiment]/seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
tonyf34 wrote:The sad thing about all of this is that without doping more than their rivals the Armstrong led team would have given far less value to USPS.
1998 was a massively important time for USPS, the market place for them with respect to express postage was being eroded at a huge rate of knots and there was an awful lot going wrong at all levels, they had a massive pow-wow with a 5 year plan to 2002 to turn the tide. I honestly think that the exposure and Kudos that came with the success of the cycling team had a very positive impact not just financially but also in image at a time when they needed it the most and helped in no small part to get them back on track.
The naivety of people to suggest USPS lost out in this is laughable, this is about saving face and making sure someone got a slap, in fact USPS wouldn't have had any crud slung their way, they came out of this totally clean and without penalty for backing a sports team that was well known the sport itself was rife with doping, they can plead ignorance but the doping was well known so they went in either knowing or ignoring the truth.
If Armstrong et al didn't dope they'd be also rans and USPS would've lost out massively.
I agree with this - just zeroing in on one person is stupid. However I don’t agree with his treatment of certain people and also the fact that he doped having had cancer ???
No one can ignore the fact that they were all at it, not just him - and still he won, and won and won so it wasn’t just the doping that got him all those jerseys.0
