Strava 'Bagging'
Comments
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willhub wrote:There is this guy on Strava who took a KOM from a segment I was not even KOM on, and I sent him a message.
I find the hostility on Strava a bit depressing tbh.
I was only wanting to point out his average speed of 38.5mph for the 0.2 miles could not be accurate, then he called me a bad looser.
I was not even dissing his ability, but his actual average speed was 35.5mph, so having an inaccurate speed of 38.5 is unfair to anyone wanting a bash at the segment.
Also does anyone know who was the TLi 2012 National Champion? I've searched Simon West Team Cyclesense and can't find it.
On such a short segment and 1-3 second GPS updates, inaccuracies are inevitable. You'll either be robbed or gifted. In this case the guy was gifted.
When you compare different efforts they are of different lengths because of the coarse GPS updates. What Strava could do is implement an interpolation algorithm to make things a little more fair, maybe one day, maybe never.0 -
willhub wrote:There is this guy on Strava who took a KOM from a segment I was not even KOM on, and I sent him a message.
I find the hostility on Strava a bit depressing tbh.
I was only wanting to point out his average speed of 38.5mph for the 0.2 miles could not be accurate, then he called me a bad looser.
I was not even dissing his ability, but his actual average speed was 35.5mph, so having an inaccurate speed of 38.5 is unfair to anyone wanting a bash at the segment.
Also does anyone know who was the TLi 2012 National Champion? I've searched Simon West Team Cyclesense and can't find it.
http://tlicycling.org.uk/ResultSheet.aspx?RaceID=961 In M2.0 -
In my opinion, any Strava segments less than 1 mile (unless its a steep climb) are irrelevant and best left for the idiot cyclists to battle out - those who can't actually grab a KOM on a decent segment.0
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Also any segment with traffic lights (or road junctions) is completely pointless,
For example:
http://app.strava.com/rides/21020183#376397019
Which crosses two sets of traffic lights and a roundabout - I had to stop at the first set of lights for just over 30seconds, and slow to pass traffic queued at the second set, yet I still got 11th overall0 -
junglist_matty wrote:In my opinion, any Strava segments less than 1 mile (unless its a steep climb) are irrelevant and best left for the idiot cyclists to battle out - those who can't actually grab a KOM on a decent segment.
That's flawed thinking.
If a 1 mile or less segment is irrelevant on the flat, then it might as well be on a hill.
A piece of road is as hard as you make it, and you can make a 0.7 mile flat segment just as hard as a 0.7mile hilly segment by pushing the effort....0 -
junglist_matty wrote:Also any segment with traffic lights (or road junctions) is completely pointless,
For example:
http://app.strava.com/rides/21020183#376397019
Which crosses two sets of traffic lights and a roundabout - I had to stop at the first set of lights for just over 30seconds, and slow to pass traffic queued at the second set, yet I still got 11th overall
I agree, it's dumb. The thing I like about Strava compared to Endomondo is that it focus's you on segments and not the whole ride, which is prone to delays. Making a segment prone to delays is stupid.0 -
I'm stuck in Lincolnshire with work for a few weeks shortly so will be looking at bagging some of the mighty climbs around there. I'd better fit a triple first though as one beast is 8% and nearly a kilometre long - how do people manage when they have to ride such monters on a regular basis?
I doubt that I'll get near the leaderboard on any of the 'hills' even up there though0 -
RoadMeridaBen wrote:Aslong as you actually take the bike out of the car :P
Rumbled! How about doing a sector on my commute that ends in the factory? Wonder if I can keep that one?
I must say this does add another element and makes for some fun. Club runs will be interesting!
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Pross wrote:I'm stuck in Lincolnshire with work for a few weeks shortly so will be looking at bagging some of the mighty climbs around there. I'd better fit a triple first though as one beast is 8% and nearly a kilometre long - how do people manage when they have to ride such monters on a regular basis?
I doubt that I'll get near the leaderboard on any of the 'hills' even up there though
Where did you find that hill?? I grew up in south Lincolnshire where it was absolutely flat.. I blame that on why I'm so shit at hills now!0 -
Don't agree with that at all. Not everyone is built for climbing, i'm much more of a sprinter so the shorter flatter sections are much more my thing. Does that make them easier to achieve, no.junglist_matty wrote:In my opinion, any Strava segments less than 1 mile (unless its a steep climb) are irrelevant and best left for the idiot cyclists to battle out - those who can't actually grab a KOM on a decent segment.0 -
CambsNewbie wrote:Pross wrote:I'm stuck in Lincolnshire with work for a few weeks shortly so will be looking at bagging some of the mighty climbs around there. I'd better fit a triple first though as one beast is 8% and nearly a kilometre long - how do people manage when they have to ride such monters on a regular basis?
I doubt that I'll get near the leaderboard on any of the 'hills' even up there though
Where did you find that hill?? I grew up in south Lincolnshire where it was absolutely flat.. I blame that on why I'm so shoot at hills now!
It's in the mighty Lincolnshire Wolds near Louth (actually, I've slightly exaggerated it)
http://app.strava.com/segments/910209
Also
http://app.strava.com/segments/995396
I was also going to try this one
http://app.strava.com/segments/1367328
which looked like a proper test and then I couldn't understand the speeds being so high. Having looked again it starts at a level 495 feet below sea level so I think there may be an error 0 -
Looking at the Lincolnshire 'hills' many of them seem to have some really dodgy level data in them and are actually flat judging by the speeds. Another example here http://app.strava.com/segments/2243077 which starts off at a gradient of over 90%!!!0
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Pross wrote:Looking at the Lincolnshire 'hills' many of them seem to have some really dodgy level data in them and are actually flat judging by the speeds. Another example here http://app.strava.com/segments/2243077 which starts off at a gradient of over 90%!!!
I think a big chunk of the fens are actually at or slightly below sea level from when they were drained.
At school I ran cross country, remember one race we were checking the course out and there was a slight hill. No one could believe we were expected to run up it! We didn't do very well! 0 -
willhub wrote:That's flawed thinking. If a 1 mile or less segment is irrelevant on the flat, then it might as well be on a hill. A piece of road is as hard as you make it, and you can make a 0.7 mile flat segment just as hard as a 0.7mile hilly segment by pushing the effort....SenseiSpud wrote:Don't agree with that at all. Not everyone is built for climbing, i'm much more of a sprinter so the shorter flatter sections are much more my thing. Does that make them easier to achieve, no.
On Strava, a short sprint is pointless because most people who get KOM on these do so with a huge tailwind and prior to the sprint have ridden a short, slow warm up; in the real racing world, a real sprinter would have to ride at speed for a considerable time before even getting to the start of a sprint, so no, it's not the same at all. Anyone who's anyone with a half decent bike can short sprint at 30mph in the right conditions (strong tailwind); not everyone could keep it up for over a mile even with a tailwind.
Now I've seen many a short flat sprint, and not many KOM riders go over 30mph, which for people who consider themselves a sprinter is pretty rubbish....0 -
junglist_matty wrote:willhub wrote:That's flawed thinking. If a 1 mile or less segment is irrelevant on the flat, then it might as well be on a hill. A piece of road is as hard as you make it, and you can make a 0.7 mile flat segment just as hard as a 0.7mile hilly segment by pushing the effort....SenseiSpud wrote:Don't agree with that at all. Not everyone is built for climbing, i'm much more of a sprinter so the shorter flatter sections are much more my thing. Does that make them easier to achieve, no.
On Strava, a short sprint is pointless because most people who get KOM on these do so with a huge tailwind and prior to the sprint have ridden a short, slow warm up; in the real racing world, a real sprinter would have to ride at speed for a considerable time before even getting to the start of a sprint, so no, it's not the same at all. Anyone who's anyone with a half decent bike can short sprint at 30mph in the right conditions (strong tailwind); not everyone could keep it up for over a mile even with a tailwind.
Now I've seen many a short flat sprint, and not many KOM riders go over 30mph, which for people who consider themselves a sprinter is pretty rubbish....
A race is a race however whacky it may be. Flat segments do require a bit more luck but lots of races require luck.0 -
junglist_matty wrote:willhub wrote:That's flawed thinking. If a 1 mile or less segment is irrelevant on the flat, then it might as well be on a hill. A piece of road is as hard as you make it, and you can make a 0.7 mile flat segment just as hard as a 0.7mile hilly segment by pushing the effort....SenseiSpud wrote:Don't agree with that at all. Not everyone is built for climbing, i'm much more of a sprinter so the shorter flatter sections are much more my thing. Does that make them easier to achieve, no.
On Strava, a short sprint is pointless because most people who get KOM on these do so with a huge tailwind and prior to the sprint have ridden a short, slow warm up; in the real racing world, a real sprinter would have to ride at speed for a considerable time before even getting to the start of a sprint, so no, it's not the same at all. Anyone who's anyone with a half decent bike can short sprint at 30mph in the right conditions (strong tailwind); not everyone could keep it up for over a mile even with a tailwind.
Now I've seen many a short flat sprint, and not many KOM riders go over 30mph, which for people who consider themselves a sprinter is pretty rubbish....
The majority of people ride a short, slow warm up to most segments, I got a guy giving me stick for taking his segments, but he rode them fresh.
I set up a short 0.2 mile segment into my village, It finished me off after a hard ride, and even like today I was tired from yesterday, and with a tailwind it's still damn hard I'm no sprinter.
I use this segment to help me with learning sprinting too, today I've being wondering If I could have gone faster as I was spinning out and did not think to change gear.
I find this segment hit and miss though:
http://app.strava.com/activities/21155690#378580432
Today I averaged 35.3 on it, and it only put me down as 33mph, yet the KOM guy averaged 35.5, yet he's down as 38.5???0 -
There's 3 of you sharing the top time, no 38.5mph efforts shown here?????0
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There was, someone has just reported it I think.
The actual KOM is 35.5 by the guy who got removed and 35.3 by me. But I doubt it'll be long until the Simon West has got KOM with a higher speed than 35.5.
I'm pretty sure I could have gone faster, I was looking at my speedo noticing I was constantly around 36mph but I know I needed to change gear to get more power but did not. Infact, I could have probably done better staying staying sat down.
Looking at the other 34.6 ones they are actually lower than 34.6
I hope Strava is not like this with all segments?0 -
willhub wrote:There was, someone has just reported it I think.
The actual KOM is 35.5 by the guy who got removed and 35.3 by me. But I doubt it'll be long until the Simon West has got KOM with a higher speed than 35.5.
I'm pretty sure I could have gone faster, I was looking at my speedo noticing I was constantly around 36mph but I know I needed to change gear to get more power but did not. Infact, I could have probably done better staying staying sat down.
Looking at the other 34.6 ones they are actually lower than 34.6
I hope Strava is not like this with all segments?
Just the really short fast ones, I mentioned earlier in the thread so I'll quote myself.
"On such a short segment and 1-3 second GPS updates, inaccuracies are inevitable. You'll either be robbed or gifted. In this case the guy was gifted.
When you compare different efforts they are of different lengths because of the coarse GPS updates. What Strava could do is implement an interpolation algorithm to make things a little more fair, maybe one day, maybe never."
GPS itself isn't anywhere near as accurate as it should be for this kind of whacky race.
If you really want it, just keep hammering at it and eventually luck will swing your way in terms of the GPS updates being timed perfectly for the segment. You need reasonable conditions too and of course, good legs at the time.0 -
Dmak wrote:willhub wrote:There was, someone has just reported it I think.
The actual KOM is 35.5 by the guy who got removed and 35.3 by me. But I doubt it'll be long until the Simon West has got KOM with a higher speed than 35.5.
I'm pretty sure I could have gone faster, I was looking at my speedo noticing I was constantly around 36mph but I know I needed to change gear to get more power but did not. Infact, I could have probably done better staying staying sat down.
Looking at the other 34.6 ones they are actually lower than 34.6
I hope Strava is not like this with all segments?
Just the really short fast ones, I mentioned earlier in the thread so I'll quote myself.
"On such a short segment and 1-3 second GPS updates, inaccuracies are inevitable. You'll either be robbed or gifted. In this case the guy was gifted.
When you compare different efforts they are of different lengths because of the coarse GPS updates. What Strava could do is implement an interpolation algorithm to make things a little more fair, maybe one day, maybe never."
GPS itself isn't anywhere near as accurate as it should be for this kind of whacky race.
If you really want it, just keep hammering at it and eventually luck will swing your way in terms of the GPS updates being timed perfectly for the segment. You need reasonable conditions too and of course, good legs at the time.
Check out the new "Velo viewer" website, you can get it to calculate times on segments in a more accurate way, useful for this kind of thing There are generally innaccuracies at the start/ finish of segments and if they are short segments it can have a big impact. Sounds like good sprinting anyway Will0 -
Seen tonight that 3 people have had a crack at one of my KOM's in the last week and I'm still there by one second! It's a great motivational tool, shame a segment I rode hard today has now been removed, but I suppose 175 HR at 43 mph downhill is not to be encouraged!0
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Dmak wrote:A race is a race however whacky it may be. Flat segments do require a bit more luck but lots of races require luck.
Racing requires a certain level of "luck on the day", it doesn't require luck due to bad GPS data like a short sprint on Strava.0 -
Got a call and said I'd be home in 20.... wasnt far off
Enough pace to make a seg out of it...
http://app.strava.com/segments/23219940 -
xscreamsuk wrote:Seen tonight that 3 people have had a crack at one of my KOM's in the last week and I'm still there by one second! It's a great motivational tool, shame a segment I rode hard today has now been removed, but I suppose 175 HR at 43 mph downhill is not to be encouraged!
I hit 50mph today, been a while since I went that fast, pretty unnerving!0 -
JGSI wrote:Got a call and said I'd be home in 20.... wasnt far off
Enough pace to make a seg out of it...
http://app.strava.com/segments/2321994
Kudos0 -
Take a look at this to see how a very short segment length can distort speeds, actual speeds from my runs down it are 45-48 mph, i woudnt try 77 mph down here on my motorbike. http://app.strava.com/segments/8077670
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JGSI wrote:Got a call and said I'd be home in 20.... wasnt far off
Enough pace to make a seg out of it...
http://app.strava.com/segments/2321994
Kudos, not far away from me but I would hate to see my time. Wouldn't be near that!0 -
Got this, this morning: http://app.strava.com/segments/1960125
Though since it's only 0.5m and 2.5% it probably won't register on Junglist Matty's radar... 0 -
Just did my first sportive:
http://app.strava.com/rides/21359075
since its was flat I decided to get into a fast group for most of it and not worry too much about pacing and I'm pretty happy with 18.2mph moving average over 90 miles.
I went solo after 70 miles... http://app.strava.com/rides/21359075#382179110 and got second place on this
(not really bothered it was downhill with a probable tailwind) 0 -
brettjmcc wrote:Got this, this morning: http://app.strava.com/segments/1960125
Though since it's only 0.5m and 2.5% it probably won't register on Junglist Matty's radar...
If you look at what I actually posted....junglist_matty wrote:In my opinion, any Strava segments less than 1 mile (unless its a steep climb) are irrelevant and best left for the idiot cyclists to battle out - those who can't actually grab a KOM on a decent segment.
That short steep climb is worthy to be a segment worth battling for because steep climbs are done at a slower pace and GPS accuracy for these slower segments will be far more accurate.
Just to prove a point, I managed a KOM on this little sprint at the end of my commute this morning (after riding hard for 13 miles).
http://app.strava.com/rides/21480587#384299068
So yeah, from the sprints I've seen, most are battled out by roadies who aren't really much good considering I can go from riding 30mins on the limit to then getting KOM on a very short sprint where the leaderboard is mostly battled out by people riding the sprint with fresh legs.0
