Giro Stage 3 *spoiler*

frenchfighter

TailWindHome wrote:

I have to say Cav went up in my estimation yesterday.

They're was a air of 'panache' in how he walked across the line carrying his bike as the remainder pf the peloton rode round him.

Yeah he was pretty calm.

Being a father now, I wondered how that would affect his approach to sprinting.

Cleat Eastwood

havent had time to read the whole thread but if its not been posted - here's ferraris take on things

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjGXn249Fc0

gsvbagpuss

For me, it's a bad racing incident made wholly unacceptable by Ferrari's response. Man up and admit you made a mistake; don't claim what happens behind me is someone else's problem.

Agree that Cav came out of it ok, not too many toys thrown out of the pram. However, I imagine he would have kicked off if a bone had been broken; Olympic year et al.

knedlicky

Alwaystoohot wrote:

That lad should be booted out of the race, to endanger so many riders at this level? Sorry son but you should stick to your local club on a sunday afternoon.

Jez mon wrote:

Fundamentally, a lot of fans tune in to see the best riders in the world sprint/players play, the hustle and bustle is exciting, but I should bet most cycling fans don't want to see the best sprinter in the world taken out by some relatively unknown rider who's decided to mix it up in the sprint.

RichN95 wrote:

The problem with the Giro in particular, probably even more than the Tour, is that every team brings someone who thinks that they can sprint. … So you end up with 15+ 'sprinters' plus teammates in too small a space. Added to the mix you have third rate sprinters, like Ferrari, who get overexcited at playing with the big boys.

Ferrari isn’t an unknown third-rate club sprinter, despite the above demeaning comments.

In the 2011 Giro, Ferrari finished 5 times in the top-6 of sprint finish stages, only Petacchi and Apollonio equalling this, albeit Petacchi getting the average higher placings (Cavendish only got three top-6 placings, even if two as stage victor).
Ferrari went on to finish 8th overall in the Points Competition, putting him highest-placed sprinter in the Points Competition. (On stage 14, I think he even wore the Points Jersey for the day, as second at the time on points to Contador who by then lead both Overall GC and the Points Competition).
He's had a few victories in the smaller one-day (e.g. GP Lugano) and shorter stage races (like last year San Luis and this year Taiwan), so for someone who only turned professional in 2008, he's got a decent record.

He made a misjudgement the other day, which happens even to the best rider occasionally.

inkyfingers

BikingBernie wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I also thought that the spitting story eventually turned out to be false, but I can't remember where I read that.

Probably because you never did.

Come back when you have a reliable source...

Hold your horses Bernie, there's no need to get personal.

Excuse me feeding this horrible thread any more, but I'm not a liar. I read reports that he'd spat on people then I read reports saying that actually he hadn't. If you look at what I wrote I said "I thought that the spitting story eventually turned out to be false" my post was clearly conjecture (as is 90% of what you read on here). I never claimed to know the hard facts, just remembering what I read on forums/cyclingnews/twitter two years ago about a race that nobody really cares about. Apologies for not bookmarking the link or printing off the story for future reference. Has Haussler himself ever confirmed or denied the story, guess he's the one who'd really know (I've no idea, but i'd be interested to find out).

As I've said before, I'm not a Cav fanboy, but I also don't particularly dislike him. I apologise if my opinions don't fall neatly into black and white sides of an argument.

RichN95.

First rate sprinters: Cavendish, Kittel, Griepel, Goss, Farrar, Boonen.
Second rate: Hutarovich, Renshaw, Hushovd, Galimzayov, Degenkolb, Sutton, Haedo etc

If a sprinter is nearly 30 and you're quoting the Tour of Taiwan as one of their biggest wins, then they're a third rate sprinter.

afx237vi

RichN95 wrote:

First rate sprinters: Cavendish, Kittel, Griepel, Goss, Farrar, Boonen.
Second rate: Hutarovich, Renshaw, Hushovd, Galimzayov, Degenkolb, Sutton, Haedo etc

If a sprinter is nearly 30 and you're quoting the Tour of Taiwan as one of their biggest wins, then they're a third rate sprinter.

I wouldn't put Hushovd in there. When was the last time he contested a sprint, let alone won one? Goss belongs in tier 2, too. He's good in small groups or broken fields, but doesn't have the top end speed of the other riders mentioned there.

RichN95.

afx237vi wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

First rate sprinters: Cavendish, Kittel, Griepel, Goss, Farrar, Boonen.
Second rate: Hutarovich, Renshaw, Hushovd, Galimzayov, Degenkolb, Sutton, Haedo etc

If a sprinter is nearly 30 and you're quoting the Tour of Taiwan as one of their biggest wins, then they're a third rate sprinter.

I wouldn't put Hushovd in there. When was the last time he contested a sprint, let alone won one? Goss belongs in tier 2, too. He's good in small groups or broken fields, but doesn't have the top end speed of the other riders mentioned there.

Fair enough about Hushovd, but Goss I personally rate highly - certainly above Farrar these days.

graeme_s-2

Isn't Boonen more in the second rate category when it comes to pure sprinting these days? Can't remember the last time he took a big win in a bunch sprint.

Don't get me wrong, he has other, fantastic strings to his bow, I'm just questioning how much of a flat out sprinter he is these days.

LangerDan

RichN95 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

First rate sprinters: Cavendish, Kittel, Griepel, Goss, Farrar, Boonen.
Second rate: Hutarovich, Renshaw, Hushovd, Galimzayov, Degenkolb, Sutton, Haedo etc

If a sprinter is nearly 30 and you're quoting the Tour of Taiwan as one of their biggest wins, then they're a third rate sprinter.

I wouldn't put Hushovd in there. When was the last time he contested a sprint, let alone won one? Goss belongs in tier 2, too. He's good in small groups or broken fields, but doesn't have the top end speed of the other riders mentioned there.

Fair enough about Hushovd, but Goss I personally rate highly - certainly above Farrar these days.

TBH, Boonen doesn't have the top-end speed any more to be the top-rank either. Line up a dozen of those lads in a drag-race to the finish and Tom will struggle to match the pace of the top 6. Tom's a different type of galloper these days.

Pross

Where does Apollonio fit into that (or Petacchi for that matter)? I assume they would be second tier although Apollonio doesn't seem to have done much this season. We need a chart along the lines of the one Iain produced to determine what races are chippers

tailwindhome

^This discussion deserves it's own thread.

Also it shows how good Cavendish is that the rest of the 1st rate sprinters aren't even close...

inkyfingers

Pross wrote:

Where does Apollonio fit into that (or Petacchi for that matter)? I assume they would be second tier although Apollonio doesn't seem to have done much this season. We need a chart along the lines of the one Iain produced to determine what races are chippers

Pettachi would have to be second tier on current results and if he doesn't do something soon he'll be third tier, but he was clearly first tier in the past. At 38 I think we can forgive him that.

Appolonio would be the opposite, currently second or third tier, but withe definite potential to move up.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

Where does Apollonio fit into that (or Petacchi for that matter)? I assume they would be second tier although Apollonio doesn't seem to have done much this season. We need a chart along the lines of the one Iain produced to determine what races are chippers

I've finished my work for the day, so I'll correlate the stats and work on a chart later.

okgo

Crash aside do we think he would have gone on to go round them?

I must say, you do get a sense of his acceleration from the above view (just before he was wiped out) and I think he was moving up pretty quick on Goss...

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Where does Apollonio fit into that (or Petacchi for that matter)? I assume they would be second tier although Apollonio doesn't seem to have done much this season. We need a chart along the lines of the one Iain produced to determine what races are chippers

I've finished my work for the day, so I'll correlate the stats and work on a chart later.

Better give it a thread of its own as I think most people have walked from this one by now and that deserves everyone's undivided attention

TMR

TailWindHome wrote:

They're was a air of 'panache' in how he walked across the line carrying his bike as the remainder pf the peloton rode round him.

We do admire panache on this forum as well

jonginge

okgo wrote:

Crash aside do we think he would have gone on to go round them?

I must say, you do get a sense of his acceleration from the above view (just before he was wiped out) and I think he was moving up pretty quick on Goss...

I would say yes. Others might disagree.

LangerDan

okgo wrote:

Crash aside do we think he would have gone on to go round them?

I must say, you do get a sense of his acceleration from the above view (just before he was wiped out) and I think he was moving up pretty quick on Goss...

I think they were too close to the line for Cav to make up the gap on Goss - if they'd been another 30 -50m back when Cav started his acceleration, he'd have taken it.

prawny

Going by Cav's previous performances, if he wasn't going to win it, he wouldn't have bothered sprinting.

He doesn't come second often.

lostboysaint

prawny wrote:

Going by Cav's previous performances, if he wasn't going to win it, he wouldn't have bothered sprinting.

He doesn't come second often.

That

okgo

Would be interesting to know what cadence he thinks is best for the sprint, I often find myself in the wrong gear for a balls out sprint...

TMR

RichN95 wrote:

Goss I personally rate highly - certainly above Farrar these days.

I agree. Tyler is a spent force IMHO.

TMR

prawny wrote:

Going by Cav's previous performances, if he wasn't going to win it, he wouldn't have bothered sprinting.

He doesn't come second often.

100% this.

I think he would have pipped Goss to the line but for the dodgy Italian.

lostboysaint

The Mad Rapper wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Goss I personally rate highly - certainly above Farrar these days.

I agree. Tyler is a spent force IMHO.

Spent force? So am I alone in thinking that he's never actually peaked? I've never quite been sure whether he's the real deal and now you're telling me I've got to stop bothering about it!

LeicesterLad

lostboysaint wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Goss I personally rate highly - certainly above Farrar these days.

I agree. Tyler is a spent force IMHO.

Spent force? So am I alone in thinking that he's never actually peaked? I've never quite been sure whether he's the real deal and now you're telling me I've got to stop bothering about it!

yeah he's never been great. He know's it aswell, bangs on about how he wants to be a classics rider every spring and then never shows in the them either. He's like the Nico Roche of sprinting.

TMR

lostboysaint wrote:

Spent force? So am I alone in thinking that he's never actually peaked? I've never quite been sure whether he's the real deal and now you're telling me I've got to stop bothering about it!

I'm telling you nothing of the kind. It's only my opinion

finchy

Graeme_S wrote:

Isn't Boonen more in the second rate category when it comes to pure sprinting these days? Can't remember the last time he took a big win in a bunch sprint.

E3: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=21841

Tour of Qatar: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=21976

Do you count these as bunch sprints and big wins?

shinyhelmut

E3 maybe but Qatar?

iainf72

iainf72 wrote:

Everyone needs to stop overreacting about this. It's a racing incident. If Ferrari had gone "oh, god, sorry everyone, my bad" this would've all ended. But he didn't so it's now a big deal.

Roberto Ferrari will publicly apologize to the riders involved in the crash he caused at the next mass start of the giro

Right, can we move on now?