New Orange for 2012
Comments
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paul20v wrote:
But what he is saying is how many people slag things off with out even knowing the product any productsupersonic wrote:And then you see all this bullshite on the forum saying how crap they are especially from people that have never owned one
But people wouldn't own one if they had tested it and thought it was crap!
the majority of people just do it to follow the crowd
and lots slag off orange just to get a reaction and this thread is just the perfect example again
people seem to forget we are all into the same sport no matter how we do it or what we do it on it really shouldnt matter just get out and enjoy it instead of petty bitching all the time
now wouldnt that make a change 8)
He said he had ridden it. And formed an opinion. Why would somebody buy a bike that they thought was rubbish?0 -
paul20v wrote:
But why does it matter if your not buying it yourselfThe Northern Monkey wrote:ahhhh... I like creating threads and watching them develop... do carry on chaps
My only quip with Orange is that there are bikes out there that have a much better value for money, are better spec'd and are similar or better performing.
You have to admit that you're paying for a name more than anything. I know its a british brand and I get that... its just unfortunate that the prices can't realistically reflect what you get for your money.
theres lots of things out there that people buy because its got the right name on it
crickey BMW springs to mind if you want to talk about over priced stuff
why do a large percentage buy them ? easy it has the right badge end of
this doesnt make it right or wrong its there choice and there money why should anyone gripe about it .
I think there is a certain amount of jealousy involved, but only in as much as the fact that a person has paid over the odds for something that a number of other people feel is an inferior product. especially as a number of those who buy the derided product feel it is is superior to other items.
They are jealous of the fact that somebody has the money to splash on a 'name' rather than. People buy Bose and Bang & Olufsen 'Hi-Fi' because they believe them to be high quality products. They are middling at best and way overpriced for the amount of performance they offer. Yet many people buy them and get many years of pleasure out of them. It's good marketing and brand building by Bose, B&O and, of course Orange.
But it doesn't make them great products... just well marketed products.
Many people would list Apple or BMW as similar companies. Personally i believe Apple and BMW have a much stronger case for producing superior products which are then combined with phenomenal marketing strategies. BMWs M cars are seriously good pieces of state-of-the-art kit. Ditto Apple. (just my opinion, obviously)Cool, retro and sometimes downright rude MTB and cycling themed T shirts. Just MTFU.
By day: http://www.mtfu.co.uk0 -
Strange how opinions are different depending where you look. I've had Orange's since the original Clockwork and have never heard of them described in the terms they are here (fat middle age bloke bike, BMW of bikes, overpriced tat etc) including on other forums I visit (hard as it may be to believe that this isn't the only site that yarps on about bikes ). Funny old world isn't it! 0
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The fact of the matter is, if you haven't ridden one, your opinion is invalid.
A bike is more than the sum of its parts.
Its strange, you don't see negative comments written about companies that pick frames out of a Taiwanese catalogue, yet a British company who hand builds its frames in house gets slated no end.0 -
I think perhaps the orange-supporters are missing something key. We all USED to love orange. I really wanted clockwork, and then even more so a P7 when they came out. Beautiful welding, crisp tange prestige frame, lovely looks and innovative frame design. I wanted a patriot when they came out, so much so I bought one. Great simple design, neat and unusual looks (hydroforming was unheard of then), and a weight that laughed in the face of the competition, what wasn't to like?
But times moved on. Orange's hardtail line up is among the weakest of any brand by virtually any measurement - price, looks etc. And their full Suss line is stagnant to put it mildly. No one objects to you buying 10 year old bikes at still premium price, but let's try not to pretend they aren't just that.
The difference between those companies picking from a taiwan catalogue versus British made is a bit like saying we should all still be driving Rover cars, and look where that would have got you.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
Would you care to tell me how you think suspension design has moved on over the past 10 years?
I think you will find it hasn't much at all.
Orange offer something that not many other companies do, a hand built frame, single pivot suspension that works extremely well (better than most other designs in fact) angles that make it ride like nothing else, and customer service that's second to none, nothing beats phoning up the factory where your bike was built.
If you decide to buy into the marketing hype of companies that claim to have the latest innovative suspension design that's up to you, but lets not pretend they aren't just that.0 -
mac man wrote:paul20v wrote:
But why does it matter if your not buying it yourselfThe Northern Monkey wrote:ahhhh... I like creating threads and watching them develop... do carry on chaps
My only quip with Orange is that there are bikes out there that have a much better value for money, are better spec'd and are similar or better performing.
You have to admit that you're paying for a name more than anything. I know its a british brand and I get that... its just unfortunate that the prices can't realistically reflect what you get for your money.
theres lots of things out there that people buy because its got the right name on it
crickey BMW springs to mind if you want to talk about over priced stuff
why do a large percentage buy them ? easy it has the right badge end of
this doesnt make it right or wrong its there choice and there money why should anyone gripe about it .
I think there is a certain amount of jealousy involved, but only in as much as the fact that a person has paid over the odds for something that a number of other people feel is an inferior product. especially as a number of those who buy the derided product feel it is is superior to other items.
They are jealous of the fact that somebody has the money to splash on a 'name' rather than. People buy Bose and Bang & Olufsen 'Hi-Fi' because they believe them to be high quality products. They are middling at best and way overpriced for the amount of performance they offer. Yet many people buy them and get many years of pleasure out of them. It's good marketing and brand building by Bose, B&O and, of course Orange.
But it doesn't make them great products... just well marketed products.
Many people would list Apple or BMW as similar companies. Personally i believe Apple and BMW have a much stronger case for producing superior products which are then combined with phenomenal marketing strategies. BMWs M cars are seriously good pieces of state-of-the-art kit. Ditto Apple. (just my opinion, obviously)
hmm not convinced by this,
I have ridden a few different oranges, and own a £3k bike so i would say this isn't a factor for me, I disliked the 5's build quality ride and thought even when i was spending alot that it wasn't value.
People are entitled to there opinion, Just because some of you think oranges are the dogs danglies, and some of us don't doesn't mean the rest of us are jealous, or wrong. Otherwise our joking points of the orange owners being over zealous idiots would hold true.0 -
Would you care to tell me how you think suspension design has moved on over the past 10 years?
Plenty of ways. By using virtual pivots and multilink suspension, designers (ie DW, Marin and their QUAD, Giant MAESTRO) can get the benefits of different systems. By starting the VPP in a pedaling efficient position, then moving it through the travel, you get a system that pedals well and has a reduction in pedal kickback further in the stroke.
Also the links can tune the rate of the suspension.
Also the links can tune response under braking as the IC of rotation can be in a different place to the VPP. Subtle, but the designer can stabilise geometry under braking or shock extension/compression traits.
They tend to be stiffer too.
All Hype? Some of it is, some manufacturers do not explain it well. But there are definite advantages in some of these systems that a single pivot cannot physically do. As pivot location is so crucial, you can see by moving it through the stroke it opens up a lot of tuning and a way to get rid of kickback.
In the end though this is no good if it doesn't suit you, and that is what suspension is about. But the high forward single pivot is pretty basic, and cannot achieve what a modern multi link design can.0 -
This thread just got a 5-star rating for epicness! 0
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fuel for the fire
Apple is Better than Mac
Wiggle are to blame for eveything
If you like it then brilliant, have a banana, if you dont you dont great have an orange, oh no wait a sec, you dont like oranges so you should have .......
CONFUSED!
I think BMW's are overpriced so i dont buy one, and i havent driven one
I think Orange bike and Hope components are over priced so i dont buy them
[/end of arguement]0 -
supersonic wrote:Would you care to tell me how you think suspension design has moved on over the past 10 years?
Plenty of ways. By using virtual pivots and multilink suspension, designers (ie DW, Marin and their QUAD, Giant MAESTRO) can get the benefits of different systems. By starting the VPP in a pedaling efficient position, then moving it through the travel, you get a system that pedals well and has a reduction in pedal kickback further in the stroke.
Also the links can tune the rate of the suspension.
Also the links can tune response under braking as the IC of rotation can be in a different place to the VPP. Subtle, but the designer can stabilise geometry under braking or shock extension/compression traits.
They tend to be stiffer too.
All Hype? Some of it is, some manufacturers do not explain it well. But there are definite advantages in some of these systems that a single pivot cannot physically do. As pivot location is so crucial, you can see by moving it through the stroke it opens up a lot of tuning and a way to get rid of kickback.
In the end though this is no good if it doesn't suit you, and that is what suspension is about. But the high forward single pivot is pretty basic, and cannot achieve what a modern multi link design can.
Aren't you a HT nut
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Lol, I just know that there are suspension systems out there that have moved things on.0
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Erm. Hang on. Just want to distill that down, right, so....kaiser83 wrote:fuel for the fire
Apple is Better than Mac
Wiggle are to blame for eveything
If you like it then brilliant, have a banana, if you dont you dont great have an orange, oh no wait a sec, you dont like oranges so you should have .......
CONFUSED!
I think BMW's are overpriced so i dont buy one, and i havent driven one
I think Orange bike and Hope components are over priced so i dont buy them
[/end of arguement]
Wiggle are the reason that Apples are better than raincoats, and to counter that, we should have a banana. If you don't have a banana, then buy an Orange quick, before wiggle comes.0 -
To be fair though... It's not just other bikes that have progressed. I can't see many people being happy these days riding around on a Five with a high-and-forward pivot and an old-school shock. I reckon it's only this that's saved the single pivot design from the dustbin for trail bikes.Uncompromising extremist0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:
Erm. Hang on. Just want to distill that down, right, so....kaiser83 wrote:fuel for the fire
Apple is Better than Mac
Wiggle are to blame for eveything
If you like it then brilliant, have a banana, if you dont you dont great have an orange, oh no wait a sec, you dont like oranges so you should have .......
CONFUSED!
I think BMW's are overpriced so i dont buy one, and i havent driven one
I think Orange bike and Hope components are over priced so i dont buy them
[/end of arguement]
Wiggle are the reason that Apples are better than raincoats, and to counter that, we should have a banana. If you don't have a banana, then buy an Orange quick, before wiggle comes.
Unless you use SPDs in which case an android phone is worse than going tubeless, except in cases where you're comparing tubeless to apples. And pears. And when you go down the apples and pears you've got to remember the dangers of mixing metaphors, so always stick to one type of metaphor and drink plenty of water.0 -
Macs are made by Applekaiser83 wrote:Apple is Better than Mac
Macs are better than PCs
Get it right 0 -
:roll:0
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I jsut wish there was a roll eyes even more emoticonyeehaamcgee wrote::roll:
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Will this do?Thewaylander wrote:
I jsut wish there was a roll eyes even more emoticonyeehaamcgee wrote::roll:
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So
let me get this right
if single pivot suspension is not good any more then why have most trail bikes and motorbikes in general still use it
Also people who moan about weight need to get a grip and get fitter or better still buy a road bike i here there light and easy to pedal up and down hills
Im only asking as i would hate to see this thread die when it will save another one starting up when the word orange is mentioned again 0 -
Awesome.
Are you for real?0 -
if single pivot suspension is not good any more then why have most trail bikes and motorbikes in general still use it
I never said it was bad. It works for some. But it cannot achieve whata multi link can.
Motorbikes don't have pedal kickback because they have no pedals that you turn with your legs. So that does not have to be addressed.
Most trail bikes are not high forward single pivot.0 -
Motorbikes also require a (very nearly) constant chain length.0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:
Awesome.
Are you for real? Did this answer my question or do you think its irrelevent to frame and single pivot suspension in general
i would genuinely like to know ????0 -
Well, rather than have a sensible lesson (I see Supersonic is ready and able for that), I'll just resort to type.
the 5 is a shit bike that is too heavy, welded by chimps, dated suspension, dated tube forming that is matched and beaten by bikes half the price.
the only reason it does well in MBR is because they are sponsored by MBR.
And it keeps the dinosaur (Orange) going while uneducated people buy it.0 -
I see supersonic replied it was between my repost
as i said earlier in this post people are forgetting why we are here as a comunity and only intrested in attacking equipment when they dont agree with something
the words each to there own and ride what works for you doesnt seem to matter beacause its out dated and may have cost you 300 pound more than another similar spec bike but they you go it works for the people in question
TTFN0 -
So, what is it about the 5's suspension that you think makes it so good? How does it compare to other full suss, or hardtail bikes you've ridden?
Do you think the balance between anti-squat, and kickback is well executed, along the entire rear travel?0 -
I dont care how it rides or even how its specced.
It looks like a mix of BSO and a Skip.
For that reason i'm out :roll:0
