New Orange for 2012

paul20v

ilovedirt wrote:

I think people like to moan about them because they're expensive and don't seem to represent great value to a lot of people due to the fact that a lot of them are single pivot and therefore aren't costly to make and orange don't spend any R&D money on them and orange owners are stupid to spend so much money on such a bike.

Just a guess. And I'd like to add that I'm not bitter!

But surely
every one should be free to spend what they want on whatever they want on not be ridiculed for doing so
oh well i still dont get why people have to do it and probably never will :?

Northwind

Nobody's got a problem with people liking their bikes. But people tend not to like "My bike is the best bike ever" "My bike is better than yours"

Remember the mighty Grantway? "My Five can do 4 foot drops, try that on a Giant LOLOLOL". "My Five can do the final descent at Climachx", which you could ride on a 90s rigid. "Dave Flynn raced his Five at Fort William, what other 5 inch bike could do that?" (answer: All of them. People were in that same race on hardtails)

(I also enjoy "Orange sponsored rider Danny Macaskill rides an Orange". REALLY?)

That sort of crap's annoying. Nothing wrong with "This is the best bike I've ever ridden". "This is my favourite bike" but there's a lot wrong with "Your bike isn't capable of this" or "My bike is better than bikes I've never even heard of never mind ridden". Especially since that sort of knobber is always incredibly vocal too.

I ran into a guy on STW who insisted that his opinion that a Five is better than a Zesty- which he's never ridden- be given more credibility than people who'd actually ridden both (they couldn't have been riding the Five hard enough, if they had they would know) He'd never even heard of or seen a Hemlock but he knows for a fact his Five is better. Because he rides it round Glentress, and MBR say so.

Course Orange aren't the only company that gets this but they're the number one inter-webster-****tard-magnet in this country.

Anonymous

Well, Northwind, them and Hope.

ilovedirt

Northwind wrote:

Nobody's got a problem with people liking their bikes. But people tend not to like "My bike is the best bike ever" "My bike is better than yours"

Remember the mighty Grantway? "My Five can do 4 foot drops, try that on a Giant LOLOLOL". "My Five can do the final descent at Climachx", which you could ride on a 90s rigid. "Dave Flynn raced his Five at Fort William, what other 5 inch bike could do that?" (answer: All of them. People were in that same race on hardtails)

(I also enjoy "Orange sponsored rider Danny Macaskill rides an Orange". REALLY?)

That sort of crap's annoying. Nothing wrong with "This is the best bike I've ever ridden". "This is my favourite bike" but there's a lot wrong with "Your bike isn't capable of this" or "My bike is better than bikes I've never even heard of never mind ridden". Especially since that sort of knobber is always incredibly vocal too. I ran into a guy on STW who insisted that his opinion that a Five is better than a Zesty- which he's never ridden- be given more credibility than people who'd actually ridden both (they couldn't have been riding the Five hard enough, if they had they would know) He'd never even heard of or seen a Hemlock but he knows for a fact his Five is better. Because he rides it round Glentress, and MBR say so.

Course Orange aren't the only company that gets this but they're the number one inter-webster-****tard-magnet in this country.

Yeah, I can see how that would be annoying, I'm a bit of an orange fan, however I can admit that they have their faults, and I certainly wouldn't hold mine over the current crop of similarly designed bikes, but I think you do get those sorts of people that buy them because they're british made so they have to support them and therefore the magazines have to support them, and what the magazines say must be gospel, and that more expensive is certainly better, when a lot of the time (especially these days) that definitely isn't true. But there are people like this for almost any brand, I think orange fanboys maybe stick out more than most. I don't think an orange would be top of my dream-bike list...

sharpe1814

The Orange 5 - nothing quite invokes an internet discussion like the 5.

It's an average bike at best. Nothing special about it at all. Why the hell people pay that much for the 'engineering' is beyond me. Simply put a hydroformed rear end would be lighter, stiffer, and cheaper, and the same goes for that downtube. Because Orange don't specify this, you actually pay more for an inferior solution. Plenty of lighter bikes and frames for a lot less money.

Same goes for the ST4, a truely awful frame for the money. 6.5lbs for a 100mm XC frame, that costs nigh on 1500 quid? Madness. And I have ridden them.

evo3ben

And what bike do you have? have you ever owned or long term bike tested (not had a go on down the park) an Orange to back up your conclusion?

As for Orange and MBR, i have no doubt that WMB will be giving Canyon the best trail bike for the next 2 years lol back handers everywhere!

ilovedirt

sharpe1814 wrote:

The Orange 5 - nothing quite invokes an internet discussion like the 5.

It's an average bike at best. Nothing special about it at all. Why the hell people pay that much for the 'engineering' is beyond me. Simply put a hydroformed rear end would be lighter, stiffer, and cheaper, and the same goes for that downtube. Because Orange don't specify this, you actually pay more for an inferior solution. Plenty of lighter bikes and frames for a lot less money.

Same goes for the ST4, a truely awful frame for the money. 6.5lbs for a 100mm XC frame, that costs nigh on 1500 quid? Madness. And I have ridden them.

Here we have a prime example of something equally as annoying as a fanboy, the internet engineer who thinks he knows everything

benpinnick

evo3ben wrote:

And what bike do you have? have you ever owned or long term bike tested (not had a go on down the park) an Orange to back up your conclusion?

As for Orange and MBR, i have no doubt that WMB will be giving Canyon the best trail bike for the next 2 years lol back handers everywhere!

I have, and might again if they bothered inventing anything better. The current design was great in its day, its just that its day was a long time ago.

evo3ben

ilovedirt wrote:

sharpe1814 wrote:

The Orange 5 - nothing quite invokes an internet discussion like the 5.

It's an average bike at best. Nothing special about it at all. Why the hell people pay that much for the 'engineering' is beyond me. Simply put a hydroformed rear end would be lighter, stiffer, and cheaper, and the same goes for that downtube. Because Orange don't specify this, you actually pay more for an inferior solution. Plenty of lighter bikes and frames for a lot less money.

Same goes for the ST4, a truely awful frame for the money. 6.5lbs for a 100mm XC frame, that costs nigh on 1500 quid? Madness. And I have ridden them.

Here we have a prime example of something equally as annoying as a fanboy, the internet engineer who thinks he knows everything

Yep. "its not good for me cause i had a go down the park, it looks ugly so its shite for everyone" pmsl. Hope not everyone trusts his opinion before trying or buying lol

evo3ben

benpinnick wrote:

evo3ben wrote:

And what bike do you have? have you ever owned or long term bike tested (not had a go on down the park) an Orange to back up your conclusion?

As for Orange and MBR, i have no doubt that WMB will be giving Canyon the best trail bike for the next 2 years lol back handers everywhere!

I have, and might again if they bothered inventing anything better. The current design was great in its day, its just that its day was a long time ago.

And the new all singing and dancing design of this day is?

supersonic

He's right - a hydroformed rear end would cut down on all those welds and most probably would be lighter and stiffer.

benpinnick

evo3ben wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

evo3ben wrote:

And what bike do you have? have you ever owned or long term bike tested (not had a go on down the park) an Orange to back up your conclusion?

As for Orange and MBR, i have no doubt that WMB will be giving Canyon the best trail bike for the next 2 years lol back handers everywhere!

I have, and might again if they bothered inventing anything better. The current design was great in its day, its just that its day was a long time ago.

And the new all singing and dancing design of this day is?

...Not in the Orange factory, well I see theyre having another stab at the ST4 at least. It's like the original designer has died, and they're scared to tell anyone. Orange 5 is the Porsche 911 of bikes. Some love it, some think there's tons more innovative things out there, 90% of the owners are fat and old. One indisputable fact about both is they have designs with real flaws that they just kept incrementally ironing out until people started to actually like them.

mac_man

yeehaamcgee wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

Aye, I'm not sure why people like to pick on orange owners especially, there's a certain amount of fanboyism that comes with owning any bike.

We don't even HAVE to pick on Orange owners. We just mention the name Orange, and they immediately get all defensive. I'm sure a psychiatrist could write a whole thesis on them.

Same happens in AV and Home Cinema. Mention the word Bose to any audophile and they'll roll their eyes and say... 'overpriced nice looking kit for people who don't know hi-fi but ar ea sucker for good marketing'.

I've never ridden a 5 so can't possibly comment on how good they are to ride. But moneywise they don't seem great value. And as for looks, it's a personal think, but i really don't like the look of them either. That rear swingarm looks like it's come off a tractor.

However, there is one major benefit to the fact they look the same year after year and that's when you come to selling one. If it means you don't lose as much money on one... then that's a good thing.

And as for simplicity of design... that just means there's less to go wrong. Conversely it shouldn't be so damned expensive to produce in the 1st place.

As for the comments about Canyon bikes... you're getting pukka german design and (hopefully) quality control at a bargain price. Not something that can be said about many German brands. So what's not to like? Maybe Orange should sell direct?

Anonymous

mac man wrote:

Same happens in AV and Home Cinema. Mention the word Bose to any audophile and they'll roll their eyes and say... 'overpriced nice looking kit for people who don't know hi-fi but ar ea sucker for good marketing'.

Same happens in pro audio. Mention the word audophile to any sound engineer, and they'll roll their eyes and say... 'overpriced nice looking kit for people who don't know audio but are a sucker for good marketing'.

Kaise

Orange arguement is the same as the Apple vs the world arguement, I used to own an orange patriot, it was a great bike i have no doubt and the theif who releaved me of it also thought so!

I didnt think it was anything special after i rode a few other bike Santa Cruz etc, but in the end i went with my specialized and no matter what anyone says i love it, its mine. and it cost me a fraction of the price and i have a lot of fun on it.

its all personal at the end of the day, i might not like your mrs at the end of the day but at the same time your not asking me to have a ride on her......

ilovedirt

yeehaamcgee wrote:

mac man wrote:

Same happens in AV and Home Cinema. Mention the word Bose to any audophile and they'll roll their eyes and say... 'overpriced nice looking kit for people who don't know hi-fi but ar ea sucker for good marketing'.

Same happens in pro audio. Mention the word audophile to any sound engineer, and they'll roll their eyes and say... 'overpriced nice looking kit for people who don't know audio but are a sucker for good marketing'.

Haha yes indeed! I hate audiophiles....

evo3ben

kaiser83 wrote:

its all personal at the end of the day, i might not like your mrs at the end of the day but at the same time your not asking me to have a ride on her......

Exactly, personal preference.

I brought my Orange 5 not because its British, not because i thought it was the best bike on the market or because i thought it looked nice but because it fit me like a glove, suited my ride style and felt to me the best bike for my personal self compared to the other bikes i tried. Saying that, i brought the frame only and custom built as i do agree that the fully built bikes are over priced for the spec that you get.
Then, based on my experiance with the 5 i decided to test the Orange Elite and was amazed on how fast this bike was (using it for Racing). Once again i brought the frame and custom built. And then you see all this bullshite on the forum saying how crap they are especially from people that have never owned one :roll:
At the end of the day, no matter what bike you have 6k+ S-Works etc, its not the bike that will make you ride well, its the rider themselves and if the rider chooses the wrong bike to suit just because they go with the trend, then unlucky

supersonic

And then you see all this bullshite on the forum saying how crap they are especially from people that have never owned one

But people wouldn't own one if they had tested it and thought it was crap!

Kaise

supersonic wrote:

And then you see all this bullshite on the forum saying how crap they are especially from people that have never owned one

But people wouldn't own one if they had tested it and thought it was crap!

^^ potato + potato = sense

Thewaylander

paul20v wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

I think people like to moan about them because they're expensive and don't seem to represent great value to a lot of people due to the fact that a lot of them are single pivot and therefore aren't costly to make and orange don't spend any R&D money on them and orange owners are stupid to spend so much money on such a bike.

Just a guess. And I'd like to add that I'm not bitter!

But surely
every one should be free to spend what they want on whatever they want on not be ridiculed for doing so
oh well i still dont get why people have to do it and probably never will :?

And everyone is free to feel people are stupid for wasting there money in there opinion, thats real freedom that is

Anonymous

^^Precisely, freedom goes both ways. So does opinion. If you're allowed to have your freedom and opinions, that means I and Thewaylander are also allowed our opinions and freedoms.
Some people really don't get that.

dubmodder

I have had my Five for a few months now, still love it just as much as I did when I tested it, a few things have annoyed me though.

The Elixirs needed bleeding (from new), the Fox 36's had 25 cc of suspension fluid in the top, and 5 cc of float in the bottom (from new), when it should be the other way around, and the RP23 has cavitated (the nitrogen has mixed with the oil) so I will have to send that off to be sorted which is a pain in the arse.

Other than that its fine and dandy, and none of it is really Orange's fault. I'm still very pleased with it, and haven't yet ridden anything else I like more to tempt me away from it.

People that slag them off, or any other bike they haven't ridden for that matter, need to stop being so narrow minded.

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

paul20v

Thewaylander wrote:

paul20v wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

I think people like to moan about them because they're expensive and don't seem to represent great value to a lot of people due to the fact that a lot of them are single pivot and therefore aren't costly to make and orange don't spend any R&D money on them and orange owners are stupid to spend so much money on such a bike.

Just a guess. And I'd like to add that I'm not bitter!

But surely
every one should be free to spend what they want on whatever they want on not be ridiculed for doing so
oh well i still dont get why people have to do it and probably never will :?

And everyone is free to feel people are stupid for wasting there money in there opinion, thats real freedom that is

Opinion is one thing but the Orange slating verges on ridiculous :?
Not all owners are fan boys as well so tar and brush spring to mind also .

paul20v

supersonic wrote:

And then you see all this bullshite on the forum saying how crap they are especially from people that have never owned one

But people wouldn't own one if they had tested it and thought it was crap!

But what he is saying is how many people slag things off with out even knowing the product any product
the majority of people just do it to follow the crowd
and lots slag off orange just to get a reaction and this thread is just the perfect example again
people seem to forget we are all into the same sport no matter how we do it or what we do it on it really shouldnt matter just get out and enjoy it instead of petty bitching all the time
now wouldnt that make a change 8)

The Northern Monkey

ahhhh... I like creating threads and watching them develop... do carry on chaps



My only quip with Orange is that there are bikes out there that have a much better value for money, are better spec'd and are similar or better performing.

You have to admit that you're paying for a name more than anything. I know its a british brand and I get that... its just unfortunate that the prices can't realistically reflect what you get for your money.

paul20v

The Northern Monkey wrote:

ahhhh... I like creating threads and watching them develop... do carry on chaps



My only quip with Orange is that there are bikes out there that have a much better value for money, are better spec'd and are similar or better performing.

You have to admit that you're paying for a name more than anything. I know its a british brand and I get that... its just unfortunate that the prices can't realistically reflect what you get for your money.

But why does it matter if your not buying it yourself
theres lots of things out there that people buy because its got the right name on it
crickey BMW springs to mind if you want to talk about over priced stuff
why do a large percentage buy them ? easy it has the right badge end of
this doesnt make it right or wrong its there choice and there money why should anyone gripe about it .

The Northern Monkey

re read.... I said MY... I couldn't give a fark what you buy

Its your money! Thats my opinion ^

paul20v

The Northern Monkey wrote:

re read.... I said MY... I couldn't give a fark what you buy

Its your money! Thats my opinion ^

i wasnt meaning you in particular you re read i said anyone
i did quote you but only as a rough example to whats being said .

dubmodder

My only quip with Orange is that there are bikes out there that have a much better value for money, are better spec'd and are similar or better performing.

There are better spec'd, lighter (for the money) bikes out there, can't think of any that are better performing though. Some say the Zesty is as good, I tested one and didn't like it as much though.

For a heavy, crap(ier) spec'd bike, beating or equaling its competitors is an achievement.

Anonymous

Well well. We've certainly touched somebody's nerves!