New Orange for 2012
Comments
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Propedal is both rebound and compression though, so it works to minimise the pedal bob in both directions.A Flock of Birds
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I wasn't aware propedal altered the rebound - thought it was just a compression adjustment.0
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The Heckler has never been an XC bike, more of an AM bike before the industry started labeling bikes as such.
The RP23 is plenty good enough, you should have had more of a play with pressures. Its strange you found it not so good on the downs when they are best known for their DH ability, whilst still being a good climber.
Pro pedal is compression damping only, not rebound.0 -
You're probably right. I guess I just think the heckler is XC as when I last rode one (2000) trail bikes weren't even thought of. If I'd had the time I could have played with the pressures, but ultimately I'd have struggled to let much more out as I blew through the travel fairly easily, and adding pressure would have compounded the issue even more I think.
You're right on the pp not having rebound adjustment, I think it's only pushed shocks that offer low speed rebound changes on the platform.A Flock of Birds
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You know, i've had a similar experience on my patriot - climbs surprisingly well (though not as well as a 5, given the extra weight and travel) and not great on the downhill, blows through its travel a little. I find it to be enough for what I want to do with it though. If I was loaded, I'd build it up much more lightweight (lighter wheels and a long travel air fork) to make it more of an AM machine, but hey ho. It does the job, I just have to push it a bit!0
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Thats what I mean, more pressure (I found 25% right for me) and it holds it up better in the mid stroke making it much more controlled when pointing down. When I first set it up I had the rear shock set at 30% and it was exactly like ilovedirt describes.
This seems to be what XV RP23 cans do, I had an 2009 EX8 which had one before I got the 2010 replacement, did exactly the same thing. Changing to a standard can is supposed to be better, not 100% sure though.
I would like to try a CCDB, Ohlins are the masters!0 -
I would hope that your Five would beat a heckler downhill. The Heckler is an unashamedly XC biased bike. The thing I found surprising about the Orange is that while competent, it's not great downhill.
Heckler and Five are shockingly similar, bizarre the above conversation is going on:
Warranty covers 140-160mm fork
Single Pivot
Slightly under 7lbs frame weight
Neither are straight XC or DH bikes, they're both sat somewhere in the middle. Santa Cruz are split into XC -> Trail -> AM -> DH, the Heckler is sat way over in the AM category, make of that what you will. The Superlight is like an XC, short travel, Heckler though.0 -
el loco pollo wrote:If you can't hustle a 5 down Whites at warp speed then you should probably go on a skills course. People DH on them all the time, you can't move at Cwmcarn or Morzine for 5s.
I've never actually seen one at cwmcarn
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Ilovedirt
That's what made the patriot so popular. The whole reason it became a legendary bike for the uk scene was because uk downhillers found the super plush long travel US bikes too heavy going for the relatively flat DH runs we had. By the time you got an intense up to speed you'd find yourself going along a flat or even worse uphill again.
Add to that almost non existant mud clearance and ludicrous unreliability (youd not believe how many M5s broke despite their tank like looks) the Patroit was a perfect compromise of all those characteristics. The patriot offered a pretty decent pedaling platform with 75% of the suspension performance of it's rivals, all of whom sucked when you really needed to pedal, reliability when the rivals broke regularly, and mud clearance for those 3 inch tyres. The major gain in pedaling prowess more than compensating for the so-so suspension.
Now it's marketed the other way round it's kind of silly. The things that were openly described as compromised in order to make other gains suddenly become the biggest selling points. That's the way of the world I guess.A Flock of Birds
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TBH I'm bored of this thread on both sides now but just wanted to thank Ben for the well written and balanced review. I agree with much of what he says. Luckily for me I'm not 'balls out' enough DH for the limitations to worry me. I think his description of the 5 as an XC bike with long travel is bang on. Get a 5am if you want a DH slant
Must admit the comments on the Hope's have made me want to test a pair. When I change I might just keep my Tech M4's.
Those that like 'em still will, those that don't will not. This site is far too 'Bloods and Crips' for it ever to be any different.
I like 'em, have had 2 and am planning on getting another. You can stick your Canyon's up your ****! 0 -
You are very welcome. Was quite fun to test it. I should go and ride other bikes more often.A Flock of Birds
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Right, now that that's done, can we get back to the original intention of the thread?
Haha, look at the "new" 5, it's just the same as last years, LOL!!!!0 -
Brocklanders023 wrote:I think his description of the 5 as an XC bike with long travel is bang on. Get a 5am if you want a DH slant
They're the same bike but one has a 20mm longer fork, but yes, if you want to categorise everything into XC and DH, then you're probably right.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:Right, now that that's done, can we get back to the original intention of the thread?
Haha, look at the "new" 5, it's just the same as last years, LOL!!!!
Can we also poke some more fun at those brakes too?A Flock of Birds
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yeehaamcgee wrote:Right, now that that's done, can we get back to the original intention of the thread?
Haha, look at the "new" 5, it's just the same as last years, LOL!!!!
No it's not, they do it in my size now! :P0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:Right, now that that's done, can we get back to the original intention of the thread?
Haha, look at the "new" 5, it's just the same as last years, LOL!!!!
Wasn't the original intention to poke fun at the new Patriot? You need to pay more attention :roll: Or maybe you did that on purpose as in 'all Orange bikes are the same'. Either way you bore me.0 -
Brocklanders023 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:Right, now that that's done, can we get back to the original intention of the thread?
Haha, look at the "new" 5, it's just the same as last years, LOL!!!!
Wasn't the original intention to poke fun at the new Patriot? You need to pay more attention :roll: Or maybe you did that on purpose as in 'all Orange bikes are the same'. Either way you bore me.
Awesome, just.... awesome!0 -
To be fair, the new patriot isn't that bad spec for the price in comparison to other high end frame manufacturers (santa cruz for instance, and several of their AM/FR frames are also single pivot (my main example was going to be the bullit, but it seems they've stopped making it))0
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Right, I think we can conclusively say there's a statistically significant number of Orange fans here that we can say, with some certainty, that they are all a little bit thin skinned, and possibly special.0
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Original Patriot didn't bob too much because the pivot was much higher and further forward. Lots of anti squat, but loads of kickback. Newer Oranges have shifted the pivot down a bit.0
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ilovedirt wrote:To be fair, the new patriot isn't that bad spec for the price in comparison to other high end frame manufacturers (santa cruz for instance, and several of their AM/FR frames are also single pivot (my main example was going to be the bullit, but it seems they've stopped making it))
Except that when cannondale were made in the USA, they were considered against less boutique brands and the specs weren't as good, plus they actually changed their bikes pretty regularly and made good the welds ! So in that case, I wouldn't consider orange against the boutique brands as they're hitting the same pitch !0 -
ilovedirt wrote:To be fair, the new patriot isn't that bad spec for the price in comparison to other high end frame manufacturers (santa cruz for instance, and several of their AM/FR frames are also single pivot (my main example was going to be the bullit, but it seems they've stopped making it))
Funny jokes are funny!
3k is fuuuking rip off for the patriot!0 -
The Heckler at £900 frame only is pretty cheap for a 'frame only'0
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The bullit was only £1100. I predict it returning with VPP. I had one with a black front end and polished rear... it looked mint.A Flock of Birds
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yeehaamcgee wrote:Brocklanders023 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:Right, now that that's done, can we get back to the original intention of the thread?
Haha, look at the "new" 5, it's just the same as last years, LOL!!!!
Wasn't the original intention to poke fun at the new Patriot? You need to pay more attention :roll: Or maybe you did that on purpose as in 'all Orange bikes are the same'. Either way you bore me.
Awesome, just.... awesome!
Glad you liked my post.0 -
Is this years 5 exactly the same as last years then, except for the standard colours they come in/the new sizes?
Did they really need to up the price to £1400? Back in the spring the 2011 frames were £1250 rrp.
Also how does the Evolution RL that now comes as standard compare to the RP23 XV?0 -
The evolution RL..... Is in fact an RP2 with a different name.A Flock of Birds
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From the prices I have seen for many 2012 bikes, looks to be a bad year spec/value wise.0
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(theres also a new RP2 too)A Flock of Birds
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