Critérium du Dauphiné - SPOILER
Comments
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Yesterday's stage was without doubt the worst bit of sports commentating I've ever heard - even by Carlton standards it was abysmal. He must pick everyone as a potential stage winner and then congratulates himself when one of them actually does win!0
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inkyfingers wrote:Cogidubnus wrote:I Think Brad on form can climb better than Cuddles but we shall have to see
As much as I want to see Wiggins do well, I just don't think that's correct. Can you seriously imagine Wiggins holding Basso's wheel most of the way up the Zoncolan or winning Fleche Wallone?
Well actually I can. Roll back the clock to 2009 and I think he hung on the wheels of quite a few very good climbers, Ventoux one example. I did say if Wiggins is on form. If he climbs like last year then no chance.0 -
Pross wrote:Yesterday's stage was without doubt the worst bit of sports commentating I've ever heard - even by Carlton standards it was abysmal. He must pick everyone as a potential stage winner and then congratulates himself when one of them actually does win!
The guy is a complete tool - he`s like an over the hill disc jockey that talks a load of mince without ever saying anything sensible. He F**king knows or he thinks he know`s everything about everything. - I thought that awful woman at the tour a few years ago was a pain (kristy anderson) but he takes being a pain in the ar*e to new level`s...Magnus Backstedt would be a hell of a lot better alongside Brian Smith.0 -
Cogidubnus wrote:inkyfingers wrote:Cogidubnus wrote:I Think Brad on form can climb better than Cuddles but we shall have to see
As much as I want to see Wiggins do well, I just don't think that's correct. Can you seriously imagine Wiggins holding Basso's wheel most of the way up the Zoncolan or winning Fleche Wallone?
Well actually I can. Roll back the clock to 2009 and I think he hung on the wheels of quite a few very good climbers, Ventoux one example. I did say if Wiggins is on form. If he climbs like last year then no chance.
Wiggins ride up Ventoux was very impressive, he really dug deep and limited his losses. However he was helped by the fact that none of the big favourites launched any serious attacks on that stage, partly because Astana had the race sewn up and partly because Martin and Garate were still up the road which meant that the stage win wasn't up for grabs.
Wiggins climbing form in 2009 was fantastic but I still think that if Wiggins and Evans were both in 100% best form Evans would be able to drop him."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
I don't think anyone is disputing that if Evans had to go toe to toe up a mountain then evans would bury him without problem.
What advantage Wiggins does have if he is on form is that others know they have to really make efforts to make it difficult in the mountains for Wiggins. If he holds on to them and limits his loses he can come back at them in the TT's if he hold on for them to crop up.
I don't think anyone can really say wiggins is an out and out contender. But i do think it's fantastic he is going into these races giving it the beans!0 -
G isn't doing to badly either. 6th overall. He's certainly looking a good prospect for the future
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when Carlton says Bradleys on a charge, what does he mean exactly!!!!!0
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He's borrowed Fabian's bike0
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It's a change of attitude to last year.
Rather than staking everything on the tour, and knocking it back if things are going well, in case he goes a little too deep, he's going for it more this year - which is much better for everything. His fans, his team, his mental condition.
After all, he's a trackie at heart and he's only come to this GC malarky properly in '09 by chance, so he's only been at it for a couple of years properly. He's still learning, and that's quite apparent.0 -
Blooty marvellous ride by the Welshman.Cogidubnus wrote:G isn't doing to badly either. 6th overall. He's certainly looking a good prospect for the future
I hope he comes out in the Spring Classic season and not waste all that road experience on the Olympic Track.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
Rick Chasey wrote:It's a change of attitude to last year.
Rather than staking everything on the tour, and knocking it back if things are going well, in case he goes a little too deep, he's going for it more this year - which is much better for everything. His fans, his team, his mental condition.
After all, he's a trackie at heart and he's only come to this GC malarky properly in '09 by chance, so he's only been at it for a couple of years properly. He's still learning, and that's quite apparent.
Have i heard right that wiggins`s is on £2m a year at Sky ? - I think it`s about time he started delivering. Ben Swift has won more races.0 -
Gazzetta67 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:It's a change of attitude to last year.
Rather than staking everything on the tour, and knocking it back if things are going well, in case he goes a little too deep, he's going for it more this year - which is much better for everything. His fans, his team, his mental condition.
After all, he's a trackie at heart and he's only come to this GC malarky properly in '09 by chance, so he's only been at it for a couple of years properly. He's still learning, and that's quite apparent.
Have i heard right that wiggins`s is on £2m a year at Sky ? - I think it`s about time he started delivering. Ben Swift has won more races.
Wiggins is almost a household name - Swift, for all his talent, is not.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Gazzetta67 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:It's a change of attitude to last year.
Rather than staking everything on the tour, and knocking it back if things are going well, in case he goes a little too deep, he's going for it more this year - which is much better for everything. His fans, his team, his mental condition.
After all, he's a trackie at heart and he's only come to this GC malarky properly in '09 by chance, so he's only been at it for a couple of years properly. He's still learning, and that's quite apparent.
Have i heard right that wiggins`s is on £2m a year at Sky ? - I think it`s about time he started delivering. Ben Swift has won more races.
Wiggins is almost a household name - Swift, for all his talent, is not.
So what if he`s a household name. He`s Not delivering on his massive salary.0 -
Gazzetta67 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Gazzetta67 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:It's a change of attitude to last year.
Rather than staking everything on the tour, and knocking it back if things are going well, in case he goes a little too deep, he's going for it more this year - which is much better for everything. His fans, his team, his mental condition.
After all, he's a trackie at heart and he's only come to this GC malarky properly in '09 by chance, so he's only been at it for a couple of years properly. He's still learning, and that's quite apparent.
Have i heard right that wiggins`s is on £2m a year at Sky ? - I think it`s about time he started delivering. Ben Swift has won more races.
Wiggins is almost a household name - Swift, for all his talent, is not.
So what if he`s a household name. He`s Not delivering on his massive salary.
If he wins, because he's Wiggins, he gets a lot of attention. Ben Swift winning doesn't.
The amount of column inches and airtime Wiggins got last year was enormous. That pays its way.0 -
It pays it`s way ??? explain - So it`s Not costing sky a bean then.....It`s column inches that pays his over the top salary. ..... So howcome Omega Pharma are saying they might have to let Phillipe Gilbert go cos they cant afford him. He`s a household name and cycling is far bigger in Belgium. Would rather have Gilbert in my team and i bet he`s on a third of what wiggins gets paid.0
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Gazzetta67 wrote:It pays it`s way ??? explain - So it`s Not costing sky a bean then.....It`s column inches that pays his over the top salary. ..... So howcome Omega Pharma are saying they might have to let Phillipe Gilbert go cos they cant afford him. He`s a household name and cycling is far bigger in Belgium. Would rather have Gilbert in my team and i bet he`s on a third of what wiggins gets paid.
Sky don't have any business in Belgium?
That's why they're keen to have Cavendish.
Cycling's a big publicity caravan for team sponsors. More people, those who barely watch cycling, will look at, pay attention to, and follow Wiggins.
Gilbert knows how popular he is for a Belgian team, and it's also well known that QS can and do like to pay up for classics winners.
Seriously, I'm surprised this is even being argued about! Sure it may be too much, but it's professional and it's business. It's not really pure sport.0 -
Gazzetta67 wrote:It pays it`s way ??? explain - So it`s Not costing sky a bean then.....It`s column inches that pays his over the top salary. ..... So howcome Omega Pharma are saying they might have to let Phillipe Gilbert go cos they cant afford him. He`s a household name and cycling is far bigger in Belgium. Would rather have Gilbert in my team and i bet he`s on a third of what wiggins gets paid.
It all depends on the company, their revenues and their advertising budget. Now BSkyB have a revenue six or seven times that of Omega Pharma, and they're only getting bigger.
Sky's business isn't as a broadcaster, that's just a lure. Their main business is as a TV platform provider. They have a presence in Italy, Germany, the Antipodes and South America, and I dare say they want to muscle in on most of Europe. And if you want you name spread across Europe, there's few better ways than cycling.
Omega on the other hand probably don't have ambitions beyond their current market.
Everyone needs to view cycling as an extension of the advertising industry as much as a sport. So when someone says something like 'Evans should skip the Tour and focus on the Vuelta', they need to realise that he's not paid 1.5m+ to skip the Tour.Twitter: @RichN950 -
No intention of getting into an arguement - Just saying Wiggins has done nothing yet to justify his alleged salary.0
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EBH would have been second but for his mechanical when they were chasing on yesterday0
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Wiggins is marginally favourite ahead of Evans for the GC (5/4 to 6/4).
Going to be nip and tuck I reckon - Wiggins might lose 45 seconds on the Allevard and it'll all come down to the final day.0 -
Gazzetta67 wrote:No intention of getting into an arguement - Just saying Wiggins has done nothing yet to justify his alleged salary.
I wasn't trying to argue. But there's more to cycling finances than just results.
SportPro Magazine recently did a list of the 50 most marketable (still active) people in sport. One cyclist made the list. It wasn't Contador*. Or Gilbert. Or Cancellara. It was someone who attracts interest whatever he does.
Drawing interest is almost as useful as results. As such Wiggins draws British interest to Team Sky, which no-one other than Chris Hoy or Chris Boardman could do - and they're off the table. Sky without the man who had just equalled the highest TdF finish by a Brit was unthinkable.
Has he justified his salary on results? No. Has he justified it on publicity? Yes, probably.
*In his book, Ned Boulting says about Contador: "His character, both as a rider and as a man, seems to repel interest". I agree.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Gazzetta67 wrote:No intention of getting into an arguement - Just saying Wiggins has done nothing yet to justify his alleged salary.
I wasn't trying to argue. But there's more to cycling finances than just results.
SportPro Magazine recently did a list of the 50 most marketable (still active) people in sport. One cyclist made the list. It wasn't Contador*. Or Gilbert. Or Cancellara. It was someone who attracts interest whatever he does.
Drawing interest is almost as useful as results. As such Wiggins draws British interest to Team Sky, which no-one other than Chris Hoy or Chris Boardman could do - and they're off the table. Sky without the man who had just equalled the highest TdF finish by a Brit was unthinkable.
Has he justified his salary on results? No. Has he justified it on publicity? Yes, probably.
*In his book, Ned Boulting says about Contador: "His character, both as a rider and as a man, seems to repel interest". I agree.
Plus 1 for Ricks comments - His salary is in part due to his marketability and name for the UK market.
In addition you also have to factor in his agent and the bargaining power that Wiggins had at the time. Sky were putting a team together using the "expertise" from British Cycling including DB and his marginal differences. It had to be then as they were in non-olympic years. Sky needed a British figure head to sell to the UK market, that was Cav or Wiggins. Cav had the HTC team built around him and had a strong lead out train - want him and his train thats a hell of a lot of cash. Wiggins well its just him - Wiggins' agent will have known this, essentially it was Wiggins or no team (well no team worth marketing in the UK) so the agent and Wiggo was laughing all the way to the bank, esp as Wiggins had just finished 4th in the TdF - fluke or not.
Unfortunately this is the way it works, is Rooney worth £250K per week, Terry £175K per week etc etc- great players but really!!!??? However it can be argued the teams need them more than they need the teams.0 -
Fair point though I think perhaps you overstate the interest that WIggo draws (Chris Boardman !) and ignore Cav who imo would draw far more interest if he had Sky's publicity machine behind him.
edit : just reading back - £2m a year ? I seem to remember hearing a figure a bit less than half that - still more than he's worth purely on results but as others say when you factor in added value if it is the lower figure it starts to look a little bit more understandable. If you are right and he's on £2m I'd be interested to know what some of the more successful riders are on.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Fair point though I think perhaps you overstate the interest that WIggo draws (Chris Boardman !) and ignore Cav who imo would draw far more interest if he had Sky's publicity machine behind him.
We probably posted at the same time - I dont think they could have got Cav - he was too comfy at HTC and for Cav would have been a huge risk to join a new team with a new lead out. However if Greenedge get their way and rip the heart out of that team AKA Renshaw then Cav might be gettable for Team Sky who given the Sky sponsorship is reviewed at the end of 2012 I think they will go for him.0 -
Boasen Hagen was quicker than Wiggins on the tiny uphill then tiny descent in the last third of the TT. As was Rohregger (who?). Maybe the tiny climb was relevant?Turfle wrote:
On stage 1 Wiggins (and Brajkovic) got distanced by a few bike lengths during the final kick, it had nothing to do with the climb.Gazzetta67 wrote:Boasen Hagen finished ahead of Wiggins on day 1 on the last climb
Martin might have also beaten Wiggins on the tiny climb of the TT, maybe Zabriskie too, had they all had equal weather conditions, Martin and Zabriskie had it wetter and windier.
Eitherway, what was Basso up to?0 -
Was thinking that must be kicking himself for the teams poor positioning at that stage, very possibly a stage win for him as well had it not been for the mechanical. Not sure if Wiggo can hold on but can't believe the stick he is still getting after 4 good stages! Good race so far for Sky, Uran surprised me in the TT and may be a future contender himself?andyxm wrote:EBH would have been second but for his mechanical when they were chasing on yesterday0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Fair point though I think perhaps you overstate the interest that WIggo draws (Chris Boardman !) and ignore Cav who imo would draw far more interest if he had Sky's publicity machine behind him.
Don't think that Sky didn't try and get Cav too. But he was probably more cautious of a new team as he is more reliant on team support. Every Sky sprint train since has looked like an audition to me.
As to my Boardman reference - go and ask a random (non-fan) Brit to name a British cyclist and see how quickly Boardman's name comes up.
(PS I think the quoted £2m included the pay-off to Garmin)Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Don't think that Sky didn't try and get Cav too. But he was probably more cautious of a new team as he is more reliant on team support. Every Sky sprint train since has looked like an audition to me.
They most certainly did and he "flipped" them at the last minute.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Fair point though I think perhaps you overstate the interest that WIggo draws (Chris Boardman !) and ignore Cav who imo would draw far more interest if he had Sky's publicity machine behind him.
As new to this road cycling marlarky. I enjoyed watching the TdF in the past, got more into it recently. I was much more a fan of the Olympics, I knew Bradley Wiggins and his exploits at that. He provides much more interest for me in cycling now, and I'm much more interested - a national person to support in GC aims.
In 2009 I was enthralled by the Schlek/Contador race, but kept willing Wiggins to hang in there.
For those who are already keen on cycling and follow pro-racing Wiggins probably isn't a pull. But for those like me for who aren't/weren't keen pro-race followers it has increased my interest.0
good one 
