Tour de France Stage 11 *spoiler*

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Comments

  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    afx237vi wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    Why wasn't McEwen DQ'd back in the day? (pic above) Seems very harsh.

    McEwen was relegated, but not Dqed.
    Precisely. Why the harsher penalty now? IIRC the argy-bargy between McEwen and O'Grady was far worse
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
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    Rides
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Let's see what Cav has to say about Renshaw
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited September 2015
    del
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Cleat Eastwood
    Cleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    Do you remember the Mcewen Ogrady spat with the head butting

    ogrady_wideweb__430x354.jpg

    Only a relegation as I remember, and it was a much crowded and dangerous sprint.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    pb21 wrote:
    Renshaw responded to Dean trying to push him out the way.

    OK the bit after where Renshaw moved into Farrar's line was a bit more dodgy but not enough to get DQ'd over. What a load of guff!

    dean didn't try and take Renshaws line

    dean was trying to hold the piece of road renshaw needed to pull into to open the sprint for cav

    renshaw trying to open the sprint by pulling left would have trapped both him and cav on the barriers he needed to open to the right so farrar (who should have followed dean) had to come over

    riders where coming up on the left behind cav so any gap there was unlikley to be there at 250 to go

    pettachi open the sprint early (he knows it is his best chance against cav)

    farrar should have done the same
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    Neil McC wrote:
    Teach wrote:
    What I don't get is why do it? I don't agree with violence, but with the half the world's press watching and recording you, you were going to get caught. Surely if you are going to assault someone you'd do it a bit better than what looked like a horse trying to nuzzle into you.

    Barredo whacked that other chap over the head with a wheel in full view of cameras and spectators and is still racing!

    yeah but not in the race (i know it doesn't seem fair does it)
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    JonGinge wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    Why wasn't McEwen DQ'd back in the day? (pic above) Seems very harsh.

    McEwen was relegated, but not Dqed.
    Precisely. Why the harsher penalty now? IIRC the argy-bargy between McEwen and O'Grady was far worse

    Because, as has already been mentioned, a relegation for a lead out man is not exactly a punishment.

    That said, I'm not sure I agree with chucking him out completely.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    afx237vi wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    Why wasn't McEwen DQ'd back in the day? (pic above) Seems very harsh.

    McEwen was relegated, but not Dqed.
    Precisely. Why the harsher penalty now? IIRC the argy-bargy between McEwen and O'Grady was far worse

    Because, as has already been mentioned, a relegation for a lead out man is not exactly a punishment.

    That said, I'm not sure I agree with chucking him out completely.

    what do you do?

    deduct points off cav?

    hard to transfer penalties across the team members..though I am in favour of that myself
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • dilemna
    dilemna Posts: 2,187
    Whoaaa!

    I wouln't like to have to make the decision on what to do. Had any riders gone down then there would certainly have been a major pile up and certainly injuries some serious would have resulted.

    I think Renshaw using his head makes it bad but Dean did very slightly drift into Renshaw in the above shot.

    DQ and a fine or relegation to the back of the field and a fine I wouldn't like to say.

    It does seem odd that Barredo is still in the Tour after his antics the other day. Decisions would seem a bit inconsistent.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    What about the other day when Hushovd was trying to disrupt Renshaw by pushing and elbowing - what happened to him? Nothing. This is ridiculous. Columbia ought to withdraw in a huff.
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    Teach wrote:
    What I don't get is why do it? I don't agree with violence, but with the half the world's press watching and recording you, you were going to get caught. Surely if you are going to assault someone you'd do it a bit better than what looked like a horse trying to nuzzle into you.

    a bunch gallop... its a pretty furious mad experience even for the pros

    there's a win at stake.... they do not always perceive the experience with the same mindset as a onlooker does...

    saying that your right but the thing is like footie fouls there is a point you can go to without getting binned off the race... if you keep pulling stuff the incentive is to push it a bit more next time... if it gets results.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    dilemna wrote:
    . Decisions would seem a bit inconsistent.



    :lol: RC decisions eh well i never :lol::lol::lol:

    welcome to [sherwen]the sport of professional cycling[/sherwen]
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • plectrum
    plectrum Posts: 225
    Dean was starting to cut Renshaw up with a sudden agressive lean off line verving to the left. If Renshaw had held his line it would have resulted in a huge crash. The technical director is very short sighted. There should be a penalty for Dean for moving off line and a penalty for Renshaw for blocking Farrar later. There should be a tellinf off for Renshaw, a fine and a team fine for both Garmin and Columbia case closed.

    This decision is ridiculous and you have to wonder if it was dine to make the remaining sprints more open and presumably exciting.
  • Teach
    Teach Posts: 386
    Neil McC wrote:
    Teach wrote:
    What I don't get is why do it? I don't agree with violence, but with the half the world's press watching and recording you, you were going to get caught. Surely if you are going to assault someone you'd do it a bit better than what looked like a horse trying to nuzzle into you.

    Barredo whacked that other chap over the head with a wheel in full view of cameras and spectators and is still racing!

    I agree with you totally. I think the punishment is too high, or at least it is not consistent with other riders professional conduct whether on or off the road and their punishment.
    But riders must also expect some punishment if you do it in front of all the cameras. I think the other rider should also be punished for provocation.
  • plectrum
    plectrum Posts: 225
    mididoctors wrote:
    pb21 wrote:
    Renshaw responded to Dean trying to push him out the way.

    OK the bit after where Renshaw moved into Farrar's line was a bit more dodgy but not enough to get DQ'd over. What a load of guff!

    dean didn't try and take Renshaws line

    dean was trying to hold the piece of road renshaw needed to pull into to open the sprint for cav

    Mididoctors

    If you scroll back a page or two frenchfighters puts a link to the youtube of the last 5km. If you wathc the race you can see a sudden lean to the left from Dean. This clearly shows the rider goign off line. This is made even easier for you to see because at the time Dean is riding on a massive straight white line.

    Renshaw makes an immediate reaction to someone doing something quite naughty.
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,811
    Are we back to the Cav incident on the third Saturday last year? It sounds like exactly the same arguments being repeated and repeated.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    plectrum wrote:
    Dean was starting to cut Renshaw up with a sudden agressive lean off line verving to the left. If Renshaw had held his line it would have resulted in a huge crash. The technical director is very short sighted. There should be a penalty for Dean for moving off line and a penalty for Renshaw for blocking Farrar later. There should be a tellinf off for Renshaw, a fine and a team fine for both Garmin and Columbia case closed.

    This decision is ridiculous and you have to wonder if it was dine to make the remaining sprints more open and presumably exciting.

    nah...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • fat fignon fan
    fat fignon fan Posts: 44
    If Dean had ridden off line, is it really a proportionate response for Renshaw to head butt him several times?

    I agree with the race officials...Throw him out!
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    Does anyone know what Dean has to say about it?
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • Neil McC
    Neil McC Posts: 625
    liversedge wrote:
    Does anyone know what Dean has to say about it?

    No, but Vaughters tweeted this


    As far as the sprint: Congrats to Mark Cavendish. I don't have much more to say. about 1 hour ago via UberTwitter
  • plectrum
    plectrum Posts: 225
    mididoctors wrote:
    plectrum wrote:
    Dean was starting to cut Renshaw up with a sudden agressive lean off line verving to the left. If Renshaw had held his line it would have resulted in a huge crash. The technical director is very short sighted. There should be a penalty for Dean for moving off line and a penalty for Renshaw for blocking Farrar later. There should be a tellinf off for Renshaw, a fine and a team fine for both Garmin and Columbia case closed.

    This decision is ridiculous and you have to wonder if it was dine to make the remaining sprints more open and presumably exciting.

    nah...

    Before - note the big f'off straight white line which clearly shows Dean's direction of travel:
    http://yfrog.com/0l2sj
    After - note Dean now leaning off line straight into Renshaw
    http://yfrog.com/j4x6kj
    Please also take notice of the new big f'off straight white line/box which is totally inline with Renshaw a cyclist riding correctly.

    Oh and finally are you a doctor as in mididoctors if so please break it down just how potentially dangerous it is to suddenly crash whilst riding at 40mph.

    Dean should be severely reprimanded
  • AidanR
    AidanR Posts: 1,142
    The whole headbutting thing is being blown a bit out of proportion here - sure it looks spectacular but it's more a warning shot and safer than clashing shoulders or tangling bars. And Dean was trying to squeeze him off line. However, the subsequent blocking of Farrar was cynical and did deserve reprimanding. DQing though? Very harsh.
    Bike lover and part-time cyclist.
  • avalon
    avalon Posts: 345
    liversedge wrote:
    Does anyone know what Dean has to say about it?

    He's not spoken since the incident as his teeth are loose and he' s afraid that if he opens his mouth they will all drop out .
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    avalon wrote:
    liversedge wrote:
    Does anyone know what Dean has to say about it?

    He's not spoken since the incident as his teeth are loose and he' s afraid that if he opens his mouth they will all drop out .

    LOL. They'll be fine if he keeps leaning over to hold them in place.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    AidanR wrote:
    The whole headbutting thing is being blown a bit out of proportion here - sure it looks spectacular but it's more a warning shot and safer than clashing shoulders or tangling bars. And Dean was trying to squeeze him off line. However, the subsequent blocking of Farrar was cynical and did deserve reprimanding. DQing though? Very harsh.

    on reflection i think your right more dangerous as well
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mea00csf
    mea00csf Posts: 558
    mididoctors wrote:
    AidanR wrote:
    The whole headbutting thing is being blown a bit out of proportion here - sure it looks spectacular but it's more a warning shot and safer than clashing shoulders or tangling bars. And Dean was trying to squeeze him off line. However, the subsequent blocking of Farrar was cynical and did deserve reprimanding. DQing though? Very harsh.

    on reflection i think your right more dangerous as well

    But there has been plenty of that going on from pretty much everyone with no other DQ's..........
    http://www.bicycletourist.weebly.com
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    plectrum wrote:

    Before - note the big f'off straight white line which clearly shows Dean's direction of travel:
    http://yfrog.com/0l2sj
    After - note Dean now leaning off line straight into Renshaw
    http://yfrog.com/j4x6kj
    Please also take notice of the new big f'off straight white line/box which is totally inline with Renshaw a cyclist riding correctly.

    Oh and finally are you a doctor as in mididoctors if so please break it down just how potentially dangerous it is to suddenly crash whilst riding at 40mph.

    Dean should be severely reprimanded

    actually from the overhead dean does hook Renshaw up a tad there

    thou renshaw ends up taking himself offline with antics

    he wouldn't have definitely crashed if he hadn't head butted him....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • camerone
    camerone Posts: 1,232
    dean is definately trying to muscle renshaw off his line, as i have said before and afew others agreed hooking bars will bring it straight to the floor a la tour de suisse. i think the last head movement is cynical and not required, the others were i believe required to fend off Dean.

    i think the blocking of farrar was cynical too, but none of this deserves DQ from race.
    Garmin had a plan to muscle/rough up and were met with required force, wrong decision imho.

    cavendish did a terrific sprint in front of this spat, his kick took out several lengths immediately
  • FransJacques
    FransJacques Posts: 2,148
    mididoctors wrote:
    plectrum wrote:

    Before - note the big f'off straight white line which clearly shows Dean's direction of travel:
    http://yfrog.com/0l2sj
    After - note Dean now leaning off line straight into Renshaw
    http://yfrog.com/j4x6kj
    Please also take notice of the new big f'off straight white line/box which is totally inline with Renshaw a cyclist riding correctly.

    Oh and finally are you a doctor as in mididoctors if so please break it down just how potentially dangerous it is to suddenly crash whilst riding at 40mph.

    Dean should be severely reprimanded

    actually from the overhead dean does hook Renshaw up a tad there

    thou renshaw ends up taking himself offline with antics

    he wouldn't have definitely crashed if he hadn't head butted him....
    When we reviewed pix of the big HH crash I found that a rider leaning his whole bike like your second photo is different from a rider's head and shoulders being to one side of the centerline of the bike. The latter implies leaning, the first is what a biker does when he's sprinting. Given the white box, it does look like he's a little to the left of the first pic. But that's not justification for the headbutts. They were done 2 quick, then a pause, then a 3rd. That's just retaliation long after Dean stopped moving over.
    Now that the commissaire's have taken this decision, I suppose Bruyneel and LA shelved plans to have Contador and Schelck head-butted off a cliff in the Pyrenees.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • plectrum
    plectrum Posts: 225
    FransJacques
    At the point Dean verves to the left they are not sprinting, they are riding fast but steady. Both riders are sat in the saddle pumping, Dean has used a tactic to try and force Renshaw to giveway. Renshaw definitely has been agressive and has reacted after winning back his line. He should have probably stopped after the first head shove, the 2nd was questionable and the third was out of order but there was clear provocation and dangerous riding from Dean.

    A correct stewards office would haul Renshaw, Stapleton, Dean and Vaughters in to make it clear that ongoing the behaviour and overly aggresive team tactics need to stop.

    Throwing Renshaw out after watchign the footage once and probably only from one angle as stated by technical director of le Tour is severely wrong.

    Team fine, personal fine, docking of sprint points, time penalty etc fine, perhaps even an overall Team penalty i.e. time/points but to throw a racer out when it is clear that pretty much every other team is using bully boy tactics to disrupt the Columbia train is bad form.

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