Cancellara Caught??

FransJacques

cougie wrote:

ProBiker wrote:

" The UCI are reportedly investigating Cancellara’s whereabouts in the months leading up to the Spring Classics. The Swiss champion made several trips to China and specifically the Shensuken factory in the Sichuan provence. The factory specializes in building tiny motors for use in children’s toys......"

“Shensuken has a joint partnership with a Swiss company the designs high end designer wrist watches. It’s possible this was a secret project to develop a miniaturized motor,” said the UCI’s Pierre Rigoler. “We’re not making allegations, we’re simply checking leads.....”

If you are going to quote sensational statements like this - at least acknowledge the source is from a spoof website - or people will believe you.

Full and obviously spoof article here : http://www.atwistedspoke.com/2010/06/01 ... ecialized/

Duh, the UCI guy's name is "Rigoler". Should tell you something.

iainf72

Cyclocosm says it nicely

http://cyclocosm.com/2010/06/a-failure-of-logic/

bazbadger

Swop the name 'Cancellara' for 'Armstrong' and would people still be willing to point out the absurdity of it?

scrumpydave

Are you lot still going on about this?

bazbadger

AND, this is the last time i'll say this, but was this anything to do with Wiggle?

blazing_saddles

bazbadger wrote:

Swop the name 'Cancellara' for 'Armstrong' and would people still be willing to point out the absurdity of it?

That really would be absurd.
Who needs a motorised bike to go out the back of the peloton?
Unless you mean the 4 guys who surround him, giving the odd push......

takethehighroad

Firstly, 10 pages, seriously? This story makes me shake my head every time I see it, it's that far fetched. I know the Inner Ring talked about the strade bianchi stage being like Wacky Races but this is another level.

iainf72 wrote:

Cyclocosm says it nicely

http://cyclocosm.com/2010/06/a-failure-of-logic/

He always seems to talk a lot of sense. I've loved ever since he described Leif Hoste as having "spassy bike handling" after Paris Roubaix 2009

ProBiker

Chris Boardman warned UCI about bike doping a year ago.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

Tom Butcher

Ah but according to some on here the technology doesn't exist and it's a joke even to consider it :shock:

Mc Smiley

There is no motor he actually uses gerbils in his tubulars to help turn the wheels. That is why he nee ed a new wheel, the cracked wheelkilled them so he needed more to keep him up to speed and win

mididoctors

ProBiker wrote:

Chris Boardman warned UCI about bike doping a year ago.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

"I sat at a meeting with the UCI last year and drew on the blackboard exactly how this might work. I showed them how some the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA battery

I think chris may be having a laugh

RichN95.

Tom Butcher wrote:

Ah but according to some on here the technology doesn't exist and it's a joke even to consider it :shock:

Really it doesn' t exist.

I work for the Intellectual Property Office. I'm a Senior Patent Examiner with 15 years experience. When this came up five or six weeks ago I did some Patent searches (I have access to the best patents search engine in the world). There was nothing that could be passed off as a real bike. And more importantly nothing close - because innovation, like evolution, progresses in small steps not giant leaps. I found the Gruber Assist patent, but that was the best it got. No batteries in the downtube. No switches in the hoods. Really nothing even close.

Now the conspiracy theorist will either say that there's no point patenting something with allegedly little commercial appeal - well that applies to at least 80% of patents. Companies patent everything they come up with - I've seen plenty of nonsense in my time.

The CTs will also say why would they patent a cheating method. Reason: Because they're not paid enough - their inventions could be worth millions (or nothing|) - certainly far more than Saxo can offer. No engineer is going to give up their IT rights unleess they're paid obscene amounts.

Those who say it is easy to make the motor quieter or make the battery a different shape have no practical engineering experience. What seems easy to the uninitiated is actually very hard.

Fabian Cancellara has been a really powerful rider for at least 5 years now. If you want to say he's medically doping, then fair enough - I don't know. But I can categorically state that he was not using a motor with 100% certainty. Anyone who thinks it wasn't down to Fabian completely is a first class bonehead.

Now doubters we can move on to how we actually didn't land on the moon and how evolution really is no more than just a 'theory'

Sorry for the rant, but anyone who has ever believed this is an absolute idiot.

jp1985

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4415/Fabian-Cancellaras-so-called-motorized-doping-debunked.aspx

ProBiker

RichN95 wrote:

Really it doesn' t exist.

Hmmn....yes is does!!
http://www.gruberassist.com/

RichN95 wrote:

Those who say it is easy to make the motor quieter or make the battery a different shape have no practical engineering experience. What seems easy to the uninitiated is actually very hard.

So it's 100% possible to make a motor that fits in a bike but 100% IMPOSSIBLE to make that motor slightly quieter......

RichN95.

ProBiker wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Really it doesn' t exist.

Hmmn....yes is does!!
http://www.gruberassist.com/

RichN95 wrote:

Those who say it is easy to make the motor quieter or make the battery a different shape have no practical engineering experience. What seems easy to the uninitiated is actually very hard.

So it's 100% possible to make a motor that fits in a bike but 100% IMPOSSIBLE to make that motor slightly quieter......

You really have no idea about engineering, do you. I'm well aware of the Gruber Assist - the conspiracy theorist's favourite - it sounds like a milk float (and haven't they done well out of this ) .

Idiots with no engineering experience think it is easy to make it quiet. Realists know that this would take quite bulky soundproofing housings. You certainly couldn't fit a noise damped device down a seat tube.

And that's before we move on to the battery and the 'hidden' trigger mechanism.

I'm being open about my qualifications here. I have a degree (2.1) in mechanical engineering from what was, at the time, the no. 1 university for mech eng. I have 15 years experience as an expert in innovation.

On the other hand you have quoted a spoof news website and believe that you can accelerate a bike without changing gear or cadence, amongst other stupid observations.

When will you understand that you are out of your depth, knowledge-wise, and a tin-foiled hatted idiot? A gold plated idiot. And utterly wrong.

If you want to keep believing then go ahead, but it makes you a first class retard.

bazbadger

Some posters on here need to be referred to this:

http://oo00.eu/

PS have the sound on.

Jez mon

Rich, the Patent process is expensive, I'm doing mech eng at uni, and I know a professor who won't patent what he's currently doing on the grounds that it would be a pain in the a*** and it would force him to make it public knowledge.

I think the noise thing might be a red herring, it's not like you need to make it totally silent due to the fact that the pro peleton is a noisy place, and whilst it would be difficult, I'm fairly sure it be made slightly quieter, putting a bit of blu tac around the motor and not using straight cut gears if possible. Admittedly these aren't great ideas, but I'm just suggesting that the design could be further refined without the addition of soundproof units.

Batteries, well they come in all different shapes and sizes.

The switch, well that's pretty much the easy part surely, with a bit of electrical nous it could be coupled with the buttons on a bike computer!


Did Cancellara do any of this, well I really don't think so, could I see a rider doing something similar, probably not. This on the other hand, I believe is a far more pressing problem for the UCI to deal with...

plectrum

The main reason why this could and would never occur is that Specialized would not allow it.

If a cyclist dopes it is his body, the team can separate themselves as can the sponsors. If the Specialized bike is beign doctored then this is now inextricably linked to the most successful bike manafaturer in the world. Not only would they immeidately cancel full sponsorship of Saxo but I could see them pull out of pro racing for a period of time.

It would be immensely huge.

For that reason this is pure BS.......

For those that still like to believe it isnt and like conspiracy then do you think it is strange that when Rasmussen had beaten Discovery's Contador Cassani suddenly spoke up about Rasmussen being in Italy and this time when Lance, Levi and most importantly Bruyneel are all under the thumb due to the Landis allegations, Cassani suddenly raises his stupid mug with this tripe to blow a huge smokescreen out of his ass!

Just like for the mafia, it is helpful to have journalists on the pay(shack)roll!

markmod

Mmmm nice conspiracy of a conspiracy theory... It's becoming like the Da Vinci code!

ProBiker

Boonen Caught !!!!

LINK

This is getting f&8king ridiculous........

lightminer

Sorry if this was already posted, don't have it in me to read all the posts, but here is commentary from Gruber itself on this issue.

They specifically talk about the RPM issue as blocking a Cancellera type implementation. I find their comments very believable fwiw and have no reason to doubt them. The other option at this point has to be *very serious* R&D by a team to develop something quite more advanced than the gruber. That being where my backhand-calcs several pages ago on this thread also lead...

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/06 ... le-to.html


So if he did it we're talking crop circles, aliens, etc. level of what took place.


BTW, that post 1 above this, "Boonen Caught" is the best commentary on this issue I've seen so far. Absolutely great page!

lightminer

Oh yeah, as to that 'extra torque' issue - if you are at an RPM, and add force, and there is no additional friction, then your speed will increase. Period.

Now, there is the question of adding torque. Lets think a second - I remember taking Tai Chi a long time ago, and after you take it for a year or two they have you do it 'firm' - what this means is that you are doing it as if you were pushing or pulling people. So your muscles are really tight, and if someone were to all of a sudden be there, you would be tight enough that they wouldn't easily be able to slow down/stop your motion.

You can apply this to biking - perhaps this is what is meant by 'torque'? If you do that, you would increase the muscle energy in your legs but this would *in no way* make the bike go faster. If you did this vis-a-vis "Firm Tai Chi" then if the road were flat and you were doing it, okay, and then if it went uphill you could tolerate some minimal increase in angle without changing the muscle output.

I've never heard of anyone ever doing "Firm Tai Chi" on a bike, I'm just trying to think of any way that a person could increase torque or force on a pedal, and given no change in resistance, not change RPM.

In the 'normal', 'real' world more force of basically any kind will result in the pedals spinning faster. Unless the hill angle changes, which would be one change in resistance mentioned above. Changing gears would be another way, of course, to maintain RPM, change force and have everything come out right.

And everyone, lets remember that actual torque, if I remember right (its been a looooong time) is a vector at 90 degrees to the left of the direction of travel of the bike if you are travelling forwards... Wasn't it r cross f? Where f is force and r is, in laymans terms, the vector between the center of the spinny thing and the place where the force is applied? Don't get all wikipedia or mathworld on me - its something like that, can't remember the details. R gets complicated. Real torque is actually also complicated. So, do note it is a function of force. Can't get away from that. And force still means the pedal will move, the gear will change, or the angle of hill will change or the rider will instantaneously eat 10 hamburgers and gain enough weight to displace the extra force.

So don't fall off your bike to the left after installing your Gruber! There is a lot of torque there!

jimmythecuckoo

So if he didnt use a motor, what did he use :?:















:roll:

calvjones

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

So if he didnt use a motor, what did he use :?:















:roll:

Firm green tea I reckon

jimmythecuckoo

I was going for rocket.

cougie

LOL at the radioshack conspiracy theory. Do you reckon Cassani had been tracking the chicken just in case it would come in handy ??

All the theories are b*llox really - Spartacus was doing similar attacks on his Cervelo in the past - so that would be two teams and mechanics that would have had to been in on the conspiracy.

Garry H

lightminer wrote:

Oh yeah, as to that 'extra torque' issue - if you are at an RPM, and add force, and there is no additional friction, then your speed will increase. Period.

Now, there is the question of adding torque. Lets think a second - I remember taking Tai Chi a long time ago, and after you take it for a year or two they have you do it 'firm' - what this means is that you are doing it as if you were pushing or pulling people. So your muscles are really tight, and if someone were to all of a sudden be there, you would be tight enough that they wouldn't easily be able to slow down/stop your motion.

Surely this is just tensing up or tensing the muscle that causes the opposite action. eg tensing tyou biceps whilst trying to push forwards, or your triceps whilst pulling, to give the impression of power. Do it on a bike and your legs would stop turning!!

csp

cougie wrote:

LOL at the radioshack conspiracy theory. Do you reckon Cassani had been tracking the chicken just in case it would come in handy ??

All the theories are b*llox really - Spartacus was doing similar attacks on his Cervelo in the past - so that would be two teams and mechanics that would have had to been in on the conspiracy.

New sponsor, new bikes, but same team, same mechanics.

cougie

And you dont think that Cervelo would have noticed their frames getting strange modifications in the seat tube ? Or Specializeds guys for that matter.

dennisn

cougie wrote:

And you dont think that Cervelo would have noticed their frames getting strange modifications in the seat tube ? Or Specializeds guys for that matter.

Ahhhhhh, but the bike manufacturers are IN on it. Or so my conspiracy theory goes.
People see a certain brand of bike winning races. They want one. Even IF the bike maker gets caught "doping the bike" it's just another selling point. Hey, I want one of those winning frames AND the little motor that goes with it. They will sell millions of them. It's win - win.