Floyd -- he wrote us a letter...
Comments
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Does anyone think this will "stick" on Armstrong ??? - What i find hard to believe is the amount of ex US Postal riders that were all caught, Your not trying to tell me they all started doping after leaving bruyneels Teflon Postal team !!!!0
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Kléber wrote:New statements, this time BMC:
So that's not a denial George? He might as well listed what he was eating for breakfast...Statement from Jim Ochowicz, BMC Racing Team President:
"The BMC Racing Team is aware of the allegations leveled against some of its management team and one of its riders, U.S. national champion George Hincapie. These allegations are not true, absolutely unfounded and unproven. This is disappointing to anyone who works in the sport or is a fan of the sport."
Statement from George Hincapie, U.S. national champion:
"I have been a professional on the circuit for 17 years – which is one of the longest careers in the peloton. During that time, I have earned the respect of my peers and a reputation for working hard, honestly and honorably. I'm really disappointed to hear these accusations."
C'mon man. What would you expect him to say? You can't possibly be surprised by him saying something along those lines? Or are you? :? :?0 -
I see that there has been no reaction from the 'new' Bradley Wiggins as yet. I think the 'old' Bradley Wiggins would have passed comment on a story as big as this one by now...
http://twitter.com/bradwiggins0 -
Has no one found the bus driver yet? Or has he taken a well-deserved holiday in the Caribbean courtesy of Postal Pat?
This part of Floyd's story is either going to see him ridiculed by 20 or so other riders and the driver or make some of the previous whistleblowers changer their stories. Remember, Frankie Andreu said each rider didn't know what the others were doing, that it was individual choice and secretive - that's a whole lot different to a blood transfusion service being carried out while the driver called the tow truck.0 -
If all those who have been bullied into silence over the years by Armstrong and his acolytes have the guts to speak out again, yes. Otherwise, who knows?Gazzetta67 wrote:Does anyone think this will "stick" on Armstrong ???
I wonder what Prentice Steffen is doing right now?
L'EQUIPE
October 6, 2005, page 12.
English translation of "Ce qui s'est passe sur le Tour 2005".
STEFFEN:
...Unpleasant people like Lance Armstrong dope and nice people like Tyler Hamilton also dope.
STEFFEN
... Above all, the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) should be completely out of this fight against doping because their is corruption there. That's my opinion, I don't have any proof, just doubts and a few rumors...
STEFFEN:
..Before going to the start of the Tour, the riders of certain teams, during their training camps, took EPO (which disappears from the urine within three days, even 12 hours when small doses are used) and took their hematocrits up to around 60. Then a doctor withdraws their blood, saving it in special containers, to lower their blood parameters into the accepted range (50) so that they pass without difficulty the medical controls before the Tour. Then, as the teams well know, during the race the vampires (2) can arrive any day but always between 7 and 8 in the morning. After that time, there is no more testing and the riders were able to reinject their own blood. They were racing the stage with an enormous advantage- their hemotrocrit in the 55 to 58 range during the race- then in the evening at the hotel, someone again withdraws their blood so that they sleep without risk (3) and, especially, they escape the possible tests the next morning.
L'EQUIPE:
This practice was used every evening during the three weeks of the Tour?
STEFFEN:
No, just for important stages in the mountains or maybe for a time trial. It's so simple to do and there's no risk of being caught unless the police intervene. The blood was shuttled by motorcycle in a refrigerated compartment...
(1) After the publication of his testimony about Jemison and Hamilton in an article in the Sunday Times of London in 2001 when he expressed his certainty that US Postal had begun doping, Dr. Steffen received a phone call from Armstrong in which he threatened him in the following terms (the same that he used against Greg LeMond and Mike Anderson, his former personal assistant): "I have a lot of money, good lawyers, and if you continue to talk, I'll destroy you."0 -
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Ah no it's all lies.
See what Seamus O Reilly (really !), an 'Investigator' from New England says...
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/"The driver pretended to have engine trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the other riders and bus driver."
First person singular, past tense, shows strong ownership.
"only" Landis singles out this incident as specific.
"ever" is an additional word, giving a slight weakening. But Landis adds more needless words:
"entire" team rather than the "team"
"plain" view, not just "view"
The extra words give us information. The addition of these words not only is an attempt to persuade, but leads me to question about other incidents where perhaps not the "entire" team received blood doping. It is significant that he adds in that this was in "plain view" (not just in "view") of other riders (can he name them? has he given this extra information in order to attempt to validate his assertion?).
the "driver" is now a "bus driver". Change in language is a change in perception of reality. If there is no apparent justification for the change, we view this as a possible indicator of deception.
While the driver parented the bus was not working, he was a "driver" but while he had a view he was a "bus driver".
As I see no apparent reason for the change in language, I am concerned about veracity.
"I drew my gun, fired the weapon at the suspect, and then holstered my gun.". Notice while the firearm was holstered, it was a "gun", but when it was in use, it was a "weapon". The change in language is justified by the context.
"My car was acting funny, so I pulled over to the side of the road, and shut off the engine. I went to start the car up but it woudn't start. I left the vehicle on the side of the road and waited for the tow truck."
The car was a "car" while it worked, but was a "vehicle" when it wouldn't. (notice also the article: my car became "the" car when it wouldn't start). A change in language is significant.
With his extra words of persuasion, and the change of language, I have reason to question whether or not Floyd Landis is truthful.
Oh what twaddle !
"Seamus O Reilly" is either someone taking the p*ss or a relative of Pat's...0 -
reppohkcor wrote:
"Thanks"?0 -
The Other McHoy wrote:Remember, Frankie Andreu said each rider didn't know what the others were doing, that it was individual choice and secretive - that's a whole lot different to a blood transfusion service being carried out while the driver called the tow truck.
But Andreu left US Postal after the 2000 season. Between him leaving and Landis arriving the EPO test came in, which according to Landis, prompted the need for transfusions.Twitter: @RichN950 -
afx237vi wrote:reppohkcor wrote:
"Thanks"?
He's quitting......?0 -
should be interesting to see who denies the allegations and who fails to do so.
this is a denial.
“Neither I nor the management of the team knew that Floyd Landis was doped.” - Rihs/BMC
These are not denials
"I have been a professional on the circuit for 17 years – which is one of the longest careers in the peloton. During that time, I have earned the respect of my peers and a reputation for working hard, honestly and honorably. I'm really disappointed to hear these accusations." - Hincapie
“I don’t know what is in the head of Floyd Landis, what his motivations are, but I think Dave just wants to get on with this race, Dave can win this race. He can win this race clean, under any level of scrutiny.” - Vaughters0 -
The Other McHoy wrote:Has no one found the bus driver yet? Or has he taken a well-deserved holiday in the Caribbean courtesy of Postal Pat?
This part of Floyd's story is either going to see him ridiculed by 20 or so other riders and the driver or make some of the previous whistleblowers changer their stories. Remember, Frankie Andreu said each rider didn't know what the others were doing, that it was individual choice and secretive - that's a whole lot different to a blood transfusion service being carried out while the driver called the tow truck.
FWIW I tend to agree that if you or I are doing something illegal(doping in cycling) that
it would not be the greatest of ideas to let others in on what you're doing. I can buy the secretive thing.0 -
reppohkcor wrote:afx237vi wrote:reppohkcor wrote:
"Thanks"?
He's quitting......?
If only. I just thought it was a strange way to sign off a Tweet. Get that Seamus O'Reilly fella on the case!0 -
Why has the UCI never looked into the riders that were on the US Postal team who all suddenly started doping and now we have the Protected elder statesman coming out and saying oh av been a rider for 17 years......big bloody deal my fathers been an engineer for 35 years but he doesnt need EPO to get him through the Nightshift.0
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"I have nothing to hide," Armstrong said at a hastily called news conference outside of his bus prior to the fifth stage of the Tour of California, which Armstrong is competing in.
Armstrong added: "I think history speaks for itself here."
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... id=52047260 -
afx237vi wrote:thomasmc wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Lance should be waking up soon
Looking forward to his tweets when he does
"SSDD"
Also applicable to the T of C.
Ooopps, sorry, off topic. "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Armstrong on Landis:
But it could equally apply to Landis on Armstrong, no?I would remind everybody that this is a man, that first of all…we have nothing to hide. We have nothing to run from. If anyone has any questions we'd be more than happy to answer them.
This is a man that has been (under) oath several times…this is somebody that wrote a book, under a different premise….the story changes…we’re a little confused.0 -
But blood doping needs far more team-level organisation than Epo use, so the difference in 'stories' might simply reflect the different methods in use.The Other McHoy wrote:Has no one found the bus driver yet? Or has he taken a well-deserved holiday in the Caribbean courtesy of Postal Pat?
This part of Floyd's story is either going to see him ridiculed by 20 or so other riders and the driver or make some of the previous whistleblowers changer their stories. Remember, Frankie Andreu said each rider didn't know what the others were doing, that it was individual choice and secretive - that's a whole lot different to a blood transfusion service being carried out while the driver called the tow truck.
Recall what was said in that Andreu / Vaughters 'instant message' conversation.
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it's not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan
Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells
FDREU: they have it mastered. good point
Cyclevaughters: they draw the blood right after the dauphine
FDREU: how do they sneak it in, or keep it until needed
FDREU: i'm sure it's not with the truck in the frig
Cyclevaughters: motorcycle - refridgerated panniers
Cyclevaughters: on the rest day
Cyclevaughters: floyd has a photo of the thing
FDREU: crazy! it' just keep going to new levels
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's complicated, but with enough money you can do it
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis ... ssage.html0 -
Is there anything significant in the fact that at the top of Pat's wikipedia page, there's a picture of him with Bruyneel ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McQuaid0 -
deal wrote:Armstrong added: "I think history speaks for itself here."
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... id=5204726
He's not wrong, there.
Heras
Hamilton
Landis
Beltran
Andreu"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Armstrong - "We like our credibility" - Oh you mean like your credibilty chasing down simeoni during the tour for speaking out against the OMERTA - I think i know who`s more the man in the credibilty stakes !!!!0
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Mc Quaid has the typical "Irish politician" thing about him............he could run for taoiseach as he has as much credibility as any politician in this corrupt debt ridden country of ours!!
Good man Pat, ye do us paddies proud.....................NOT!!!!!!!!'REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE
SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM'0 -
From 2006...neilr4 wrote:Mc Quaid has the typical "Irish politician" thing about him............he could run for taoiseach as he has as much credibility as any politician in this corrupt debt ridden country of ours!!
Good man Pat, ye do us paddies proud.....................NOT!!!!!!!!
Time for McQuaid to go.
http://static.bikeradar.com/forum/viewt ... cfc3264db8
And he's still there...0 -
Hey, what's going on?
What's all the Hub-bub?0 -
Man I'm outta popcorn. Time to make some more.
I'm surprised I've not seen the Andreu Vaughters exchange before.
Will LA ride the tour still? I see a potential exit if the water gets too hot...When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:I see that there has been no reaction from the 'new' Bradley Wiggins as yet. I think the 'old' Bradley Wiggins would have passed comment on a story as big as this one by now...
http://twitter.com/bradwiggins
No reaction from Marco Pinotti either. I guess current riders might want to wait til someone actually goes down before commenting.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Saying something against Armstrong can seriously damage your career.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0
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2002: He later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before
the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr
Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with
Mr. Verbruggen to keep the positive test hidden.
Remember that big donation he made to the UCI?Lance’s Anti-Doping Fight
Lance Armstrong has always fought to defend himself against slurs on his reputation as a clean athlete but less well known is his fight against doping itself behind the scenes. UCI president Hein Verbruggen spoke to ‘Eurosport’ and divulged that the American “gave money for the research against doping, to discover new anti-doping methods," “He gave money from his private funds, cash. He didn't want this to be known but he did it". Armstrong did not make this knowledge public and when questioned about the contribution said that “If I've donated money to the UCI to combat doping, step up controls and to fund research, it is not my job to issue a press release. That's a secret thing, because it's the right thing to do.” Eurosport.com also reports that when questioned about the amounts of money involved there followed “(Laughter) It was a fair amount. It wasn't... It wasn't a small amount of money".
So, when was it exactly?........
http://www.cycle-cafe.net/forums/showth ... 363&page=2
3rd post down. What a coincidence. "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
From 2006...neilr4 wrote:Mc Quaid has the typical "Irish politician" thing about him............he could run for taoiseach as he has as much credibility as any politician in this corrupt debt ridden country of ours!!
Good man Pat, ye do us paddies proud.....................NOT!!!!!!!!
Time for McQuaid to go.
http://static.bikeradar.com/forum/viewt ... cfc3264db8
And he's still there...
Aah, aurelio - whatever happened to that guy?0 -
Landis' email itself is just weird. I really can't decide whether or not to believe it, or how much to believe. In its favour: lots of specific detail, with convincing levels of possible misremembering if you were writing in a hurry. I don't think he's got the intellectual chops to make up all of that.
On the other hand, all the most damning evidence *does* sound made up. "Go to Lance's house and get the EPO"? Of all the ways he could have got hold of it, the DS tells him to go to the HOUSE of the team leader and collect it? The 2 most important people in the team totally unconcerned about discussing this in front of a comparatively junior rider, with no concern for plausible deniability? It's not hard for me to believe that JB and LA were complicit or even guilty but it is hard to believe they'd be that *careless*.
On first impressions it reads a bit as if the detail of his own and the team's doping is largely true but he's aware of the lack of a smoking gun and has invented one. Plus of course his record doesn't make him easy to trust. As for "when I know you can be trusted"... irony much?"We're not holding up traffic. We are traffic."0
