Big fat winter power training thread
Comments
-
I'm starting to think that comparing power readings from different power meters or even the same may not be accurate.
The one I use, uses the weight/power the calculate speed, I dunno if they all do, but anyway it's accurate there for me because the set weight is my current weight of 77kg. Also for every ride it needs to be calibrated, when it's properly calibrated I've already got an extra 20W, as whoever calibrated it before me is different. The power meter can also take into account aerodynamic drag as well apparently to give a more accurate on road reading.0 -
I'm just wondering.
I'm not trying to say anything like your power readings are wrong cause obviously I don't know that. I'm just wondering.
On the stats some way back, you can see most peoples FTP is like 280-300, now at my trainers house there are CAT1 riders and some real fast riders that don't even do this for an hour, and I'd say they probably can't judging by what there HR was at.
Just wondering, don't bite my head off!
On another note I do feel rather slow, my FTP for an hour I'd say is probs around 250-260 if I was on a say a flat course, but the resistance is constantly changing as the gradient is up and down like a yoyo. From most of my rides my average W/KG is like 3-3.1 which is also rather low.0 -
freehub wrote:I'm just wondering.
I'm not trying to say anything like your power readings are wrong cause obviously I don't know that. I'm just wondering.
On the stats some way back, you can see most peoples FTP is like 280-300, now at my trainers house there are CAT1 riders and some real fast riders that don't even do this for an hour, and I'd say they probably can't judging by what there HR was at.
.....
I'd be pretty surprised by that. My ftp is in that range (just hitting 4w/kg) and I'd say I was borderline cat4 standard on a good day (assuming I was capable of road racing, which I'm not due to rubbish bike handling and very low peak power).
Cat 1's have surely got to be 5W/kg+?--
"Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."0 -
Maybe it's not all about wattage? Cause I can keep up with CAT2 racers and my trainer thinks I'm easily of CAT3 standard.
I won't be any cat this year though as I'm only doing TLi races, I'll get me parents to get my a license/membership for crimbo.0 -
freehub wrote:I'm starting to think that comparing power readings from different power meters or even the same may not be accurate.
There are a number of different inaccuracies in different devices for sure, some of us are using PowerTaps which measure at the hub, others are using SRMs or Cinqo's which measure at the crank. There's the drivetrain losses in there, which are probably around 2.5% are different there. Then there's any inaccuracy in the PT itself, they can be variously accurate, although you can check the calibration of most of the devices if you're anal enough.
Then there's how people are arriving at their FTP's, some people will have nothing other than a proven 60minutes Average Power, other people will extrapolate from a 20minute effort. As you say that does limit comparision, but it doesn't matter, this isn't really about who's got the biggest number, if we wanted to wave willys like that, we'd just lie!freehub wrote:The power meter can also take into account aerodynamic drag as well apparently to give a more accurate on road reading.
So you're using an iBike iAero? These are one of the least accurate devices, particularly because rather than a direct measurement of force (either on the pedal, or at the hub) it's deriving the power from the speed and conditions. That means it's very sensitive to calibration, it's also sensitive to road surface - do your calibration on a rough road, and ride on a smooth road and you'll add a whole big bunch of watts!
nmcgann - remember there's a lot more to racing than FTP, and also don't forget there's not a whole lot of difference between Cat 3 and Cat 4 - it's just experience. It's also really easy to have the highest FTP in the field and never come close to winning the event. You need to use the watts, in many races less than 3w/kg will comfortably get you to the finish and then it's all about your sprint. If you have more, but no sprint, you need to make the race tough so those weaker people are dead or dropped by the end.
Last year with 4w/kg and no sprint, I got my 3rd cat points purely by still being around in the tough races when everyone else was dead.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
It's not an iBike iAero or w/e that is, it's currently not set up to take into account aerodynamic.
It's computrainer.0 -
jibberjim wrote:freehub wrote:I'm starting to think that comparing power readings from different power meters or even the same may not be accurate.
There are a number of different inaccuracies in different devices for sure, some of us are using PowerTaps which measure at the hub, others are using SRMs or Cinqo's which measure at the crank. There's the drivetrain losses in there, which are probably around 2.5% are different there. Then there's any inaccuracy in the PT itself, they can be variously accurate, although you can check the calibration of most of the devices if you're anal enough.
Then there's how people are arriving at their FTP's, some people will have nothing other than a proven 60minutes Average Power, other people will extrapolate from a 20minute effort. As you say that does limit comparision, but it doesn't matter, this isn't really about who's got the biggest number, if we wanted to wave willys like that, we'd just lie!freehub wrote:The power meter can also take into account aerodynamic drag as well apparently to give a more accurate on road reading.
So you're using an iBike iAero? These are one of the least accurate devices, particularly because rather than a direct measurement of force (either on the pedal, or at the hub) it's deriving the power from the speed and conditions. That means it's very sensitive to calibration, it's also sensitive to road surface - do your calibration on a rough road, and ride on a smooth road and you'll add a whole big bunch of watts!
nmcgann - remember there's a lot more to racing than FTP, and also don't forget there's not a whole lot of difference between Cat 3 and Cat 4 - it's just experience. It's also really easy to have the highest FTP in the field and never come close to winning the event. You need to use the watts, in many races less than 3w/kg will comfortably get you to the finish and then it's all about your sprint. If you have more, but no sprint, you need to make the race tough so those weaker people are dead or dropped by the end.
Last year with 4w/kg and no sprint, I got my 3rd cat points purely by still being around in the tough races when everyone else was dead.
Whereas today with just over 3 w/kg I was utter garbage today in my first race...0 -
NapoleonD wrote:jibberjim wrote:freehub wrote:I'm starting to think that comparing power readings from different power meters or even the same may not be accurate.
There are a number of different inaccuracies in different devices for sure, some of us are using PowerTaps which measure at the hub, others are using SRMs or Cinqo's which measure at the crank. There's the drivetrain losses in there, which are probably around 2.5% are different there. Then there's any inaccuracy in the PT itself, they can be variously accurate, although you can check the calibration of most of the devices if you're anal enough.
Then there's how people are arriving at their FTP's, some people will have nothing other than a proven 60minutes Average Power, other people will extrapolate from a 20minute effort. As you say that does limit comparision, but it doesn't matter, this isn't really about who's got the biggest number, if we wanted to wave willys like that, we'd just lie!freehub wrote:The power meter can also take into account aerodynamic drag as well apparently to give a more accurate on road reading.
So you're using an iBike iAero? These are one of the least accurate devices, particularly because rather than a direct measurement of force (either on the pedal, or at the hub) it's deriving the power from the speed and conditions. That means it's very sensitive to calibration, it's also sensitive to road surface - do your calibration on a rough road, and ride on a smooth road and you'll add a whole big bunch of watts!
nmcgann - remember there's a lot more to racing than FTP, and also don't forget there's not a whole lot of difference between Cat 3 and Cat 4 - it's just experience. It's also really easy to have the highest FTP in the field and never come close to winning the event. You need to use the watts, in many races less than 3w/kg will comfortably get you to the finish and then it's all about your sprint. If you have more, but no sprint, you need to make the race tough so those weaker people are dead or dropped by the end.
Last year with 4w/kg and no sprint, I got my 3rd cat points purely by still being around in the tough races when everyone else was dead.
Whereas today with just over 3 w/kg I was utter garbage today in my first race...
What avg speed was the race and what distance?0 -
Ave spd for me was 22.9
Speed on the lap varied from about 15mph to about 31. So twice a (very short) lap you were slowing right down then sprinting up again. The long section that should have bumped the speed up suffered a right bugger of a headwind that led to the tighter of the two hairpins...
0 -
Similar to saltayre then, 23.4 over 34 miles.0
-
The CT needs to be calibrated every time you use it and after a good solid warm up period because the calibration drifts somewhat, especially during warm up period.freehub wrote:It's not an iBike iAero or w/e that is, it's currently not set up to take into account aerodynamic.
It's computrainer.
Mass entered into a CT for the purposes of riding courses should include estimate of all mass: body mass, clothes, gear, bike etc. Speed attained is then adjusted based on your power output, mass and the gradient being simulated.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST --- Sep -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Oct -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Nov -- 300watts -- 78kg -- 3.8 w/kg
Bhima
Oct -- 278watts -- 58kg -- 4.8 w/kg
Feb -- 286watts -- 62kg -- 4.6 w/kg
Bronzie
Dec -- 260watts -- 74kg -- 3.5 w/kg
Jan -- 250watts -- 75kg -- 3.3 w/kg
Disgruntledgoat
Nov -- 332watts -- 76kg -- 4.4 w/kg
Dec -- 338watts -- 74kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Feb -- 346watts -- 74kg -- 4.67 w/kg
Jeff Jones
Oct -- 325watts -- 69kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Feb -- 315watts? -- 70kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Mar -- 334watts -- 69kg -- 4.85 w/kg
JibberJim
Nov -- 295watts -- 75kg -- 3.9 w/kg
Dec -- 300watts -- 75kg -- 4.0 w/kg
Feb -- 310watts -- 74kg -- 4.2 w/kg
NapD
Sep -- 220watts -- 96kg -- 2.3 w/kg
Nov -- 277watts -- 89kg -- 3.1 w/kg
Phil S
Oct -- 305watts -- 71kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Rokkala
Nov -- 312watts -- 73kg -- 4.3 w/kg
slunker
Feb -- 300watts -- 72kg -- 4.16 w/kg
NickD
Jan -- 235watts -- 73kg -- 3.2 w/kg
Feb -- 255watts -- 73kg -- 3.5 w/kg
hopper1
Feb -- 220watts -- 76kg -- 2.89 w/kg
mididoctors
Feb -- 223Watts -- 83kg -- 2.68 w/kg
Stuck in my NP number from a race today. It was ~1hr7min so I've added a couple of watts to get FTP. Also revised my October 09 number to go off normalised rather than average power.
Take home message this winter compared to last: 500 fewer miles, better structure, +3.5% power/weight.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Over the last couple of days I have decided that it would definitely be best if I lost a load of weight!!0
-
Jeff Jones wrote:Stuck in my NP number from a race today. It was ~1hr7min so I've added a couple of watts to get FTP. Also revised my October 09 number to go off normalised rather than average power.
Nice progression, did 340watts for 30minutes today, with 80km and 200 TSS in the legs already so looking forward to testing this properly in some races. There's definite indications that I should be up 320+ for FTP now, but I'll wait to see when I'm back on the regular testing grounds and this isn't just a feature of the smooth roads and long climbs.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Nice.jibberjim wrote:Jeff Jones wrote:Stuck in my NP number from a race today. It was ~1hr7min so I've added a couple of watts to get FTP. Also revised my October 09 number to go off normalised rather than average power.
Nice progression, did 340watts for 30minutes today, with 80km and 200 TSS in the legs already so looking forward to testing this properly in some races. There's definite indications that I should be up 320+ for FTP now, but I'll wait to see when I'm back on the regular testing grounds and this isn't just a feature of the smooth roads and long climbs.
Couple of weeks back I had a hard 52-min race with AP 302W and NP 319W, which suggests FTP ~ 305-310W.
Unfortunately illness and injury has meant a 2 week unscheduled lay off the bike, so I'll be back to working my way up again.0 -
Can you change the seven deadly sins to eight?
Where would you put a badly paced 1 hour two up timetrial?
So, 262w ave, 272 NP but I think I got a 30 sec pb in the first 30 sec :evil: which left me in a lot of trouble. (note to self: never do a two up with someone who hasn't used a powermeter. No forget that, never do a team timetrial.)
I reckon I could have got more out if I was on my own at a set pace, but does the np pf 272 indicate that this was the max that I could have hoped for?
I'm a bit confused and a bit p'd off. I was expecting a power pb but instead ended up letting my partner down. Does poor pacing really effect things that badly?
Like Nap' said above I also need to shed a lot of weight.0 -
That's what we call character building, not career enhancing.chrisw12 wrote:Where would you put a badly paced 1 hour two up timetrial?0 -
Jeff Jones wrote:Take home message this winter compared to last: 500 fewer miles, better structure, +3.5% power/weight.
Nice numbers Jeff. Apologies if you have mentioned it before (only a cursory look back through your posts) but what has your structure/training been like over the winter?0 -
10-12 hrs a week (was up to 16hrs last winter), gradually building up the intensity and a bit of volume each week. Mixture of tempo/sweet spot/4-5min intervals and endurance (3-4hr rides). Nothing rocket sciencey.
I planned it fairly carefully, built in enough wiggle room for the weather, and stuck to it pretty well. I also did it all on feel and heart rate, although I'm about to rent a powertap from cyclepowermeters.
I'm quite chuffed to have achieved a greater level of fitness than last year on a lot less training. And if I cut out the easy days, I think I could get by on 7-8 hrs a week.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
-
chrisw12 wrote:Can you change the seven deadly sins to eight?
Where would you put a badly paced 1 hour two up timetrial?
So, 262w ave, 272 NP but I think I got a 30 sec pb in the first 30 sec :evil: which left me in a lot of trouble. (note to self: never do a two up with someone who hasn't used a powermeter. No forget that, never do a team timetrial.)
I reckon I could have got more out if I was on my own at a set pace, but does the np pf 272 indicate that this was the max that I could have hoped for?
I'm a bit confused and a bit p'd off. I was expecting a power pb but instead ended up letting my partner down. Does poor pacing really effect things that badly?
Like Nap' said above I also need to shed a lot of weight.
Rule of thumb for 2 ups: 1 person will always, always, suffer like a dog."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
Jeff Jones wrote:10-12 hrs a week (was up to 16hrs last winter), gradually building up the intensity and a bit of volume each week. Mixture of tempo/sweet spot/4-5min intervals and endurance (3-4hr rides). Nothing rocket sciencey.
I planned it fairly carefully, built in enough wiggle room for the weather, and stuck to it pretty well. I also did it all on feel and heart rate, although I'm about to rent a powertap from cyclepowermeters.
I'm quite chuffed to have achieved a greater level of fitness than last year on a lot less training. And if I cut out the easy days, I think I could get by on 7-8 hrs a week.
I've done the same this winter, down from 11-15 hours a week to 8 or 9. More rest, better structure, going easier on myself basically and I feel loads better. Not tired all the time, can go faster for longer.
5 days until my first race and I still haven't got the paralysing fear that normally accompanies such things! I'm a new rider!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST --- Sep -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Oct -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Nov -- 300watts -- 78kg -- 3.8 w/kg
Bhima
Oct -- 278watts -- 58kg -- 4.8 w/kg
Feb -- 286watts -- 62kg -- 4.6 w/kg
Bronzie
Dec -- 260watts -- 74kg -- 3.5 w/kg
Jan -- 250watts -- 75kg -- 3.3 w/kg
Disgruntledgoat
Nov -- 332watts -- 76kg -- 4.4 w/kg
Dec -- 338watts -- 74kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Feb -- 346watts -- 74kg -- 4.67 w/kg
Jeff Jones
Oct -- 325watts -- 69kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Feb -- 315watts? -- 70kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Mar -- 334watts -- 69kg -- 4.85 w/kg
JibberJim
Nov -- 295watts -- 75kg -- 3.9 w/kg
Dec -- 300watts -- 75kg -- 4.0 w/kg
Feb -- 310watts -- 74kg -- 4.2 w/kg
NapD
Sep -- 220watts -- 96kg -- 2.3 w/kg
Nov -- 277watts -- 89kg -- 3.1 w/kg
Phil S
Oct -- 305watts -- 71kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Rokkala
Nov -- 312watts -- 73kg -- 4.3 w/kg
slunker
Feb -- 300watts -- 72kg -- 4.16 w/kg
Mar -- 310watts -- 71kg -- 4.36
NickD
Jan -- 235watts -- 73kg -- 3.2 w/kg
Feb -- 255watts -- 73kg -- 3.5 w/kg
hopper1
Feb -- 220watts -- 76kg -- 2.89 w/kg
mididoctors
Feb -- 223Watts -- 83kg -- 2.68 w/kg0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST --- Sep -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Oct -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Nov -- 300watts -- 78kg -- 3.8 w/kg
Bhima
Oct -- 278watts -- 58kg -- 4.8 w/kg
Feb -- 286watts -- 62kg -- 4.6 w/kg
Mar -- 292watts -- 62kg -- 4.7 w/kg - 3 weeks of nothing but SST x 14 hours
Bronzie
Dec -- 260watts -- 74kg -- 3.5 w/kg
Jan -- 250watts -- 75kg -- 3.3 w/kg
Disgruntledgoat
Nov -- 332watts -- 76kg -- 4.4 w/kg
Dec -- 338watts -- 74kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Feb -- 346watts -- 74kg -- 4.67 w/kg
Jeff Jones
Oct -- 325watts -- 69kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Feb -- 315watts? -- 70kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Mar -- 334watts -- 69kg -- 4.85 w/kg
JibberJim
Nov -- 295watts -- 75kg -- 3.9 w/kg
Dec -- 300watts -- 75kg -- 4.0 w/kg
Feb -- 310watts -- 74kg -- 4.2 w/kg
NapD
Sep -- 220watts -- 96kg -- 2.3 w/kg
Nov -- 277watts -- 89kg -- 3.1 w/kg
Phil S
Oct -- 305watts -- 71kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Rokkala
Nov -- 312watts -- 73kg -- 4.3 w/kg
slunker
Feb -- 300watts -- 72kg -- 4.16 w/kg
Mar -- 310watts -- 71kg -- 4.36 w/kg
NickD
Jan -- 235watts -- 73kg -- 3.2 w/kg
Feb -- 255watts -- 73kg -- 3.5 w/kg
hopper1
Feb -- 220watts -- 76kg -- 2.89 w/kg
mididoctors
Feb -- 223Watts -- 83kg -- 2.68 w/kg0 -
Ta! It was a good way to start the season. Next race won't be until the end of March, the first round of the Rudy Project series. Matt Bottrill is looking like the man to beat. I suspect I'll need a bit more improvement over the next three weeks to even get close.Bronzie wrote:
It works, as long as you make the most out of your training time and you keep a gradual progression in. Can't believe this is the first year I've tried it after ~20 years of racing :oops:disgruntledgoat wrote:I've done the same this winter, down from 11-15 hours a week to 8 or 9. More rest, better structure, going easier on myself basically and I feel loads better. Not tired all the time, can go faster for longer.
5 days until my first race and I still haven't got the paralysing fear that normally accompanies such things! I'm a new rider!
I did have some structure last winter, but it was a little more up and down in terms of volume. I still noticed regular improvements and still started the season in top form (pretty much as good as it got all year, although I did get injured). This time around I've refined it to be more time efficient. I could improve it a bit more I reckon.
Good luck in your first race anyway. Let us know how you get on!Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Bhima wrote:Bhima
Oct -- 278watts -- 58kg -- 4.8 w/kg
Feb -- 286watts -- 62kg -- 4.6 w/kg
Mar -- 292watts -- 62kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Bhima, that is a very good FTP for someone of your weight. You will see further improvement if you keep up SST and threshold work while keeping over all training hours down, resting and avoiding unnecessary training.
What power meter were you using and how was the test conducted?
Murr X0 -
Hi Jeff congrats on both the win last week end and your improved FTP. I don't have a powermeter so I'm training on feel (a 3 day block of two 90-120 minute sweet spot rides, then a 2 x 20) day off and then repeat. Can I ask the duration of your sweet spot rides and how you generally feel during them e.g is it a steady start and then slightly tough ending? Thanks in advance, ToksJeff Jones wrote:10-12 hrs a week (was up to 16hrs last winter), gradually building up the intensity and a bit of volume each week. Mixture of tempo/sweet spot/4-5min intervals and endurance (3-4hr rides). Nothing rocket sciencey.0 -
I got on the turbo today, it was turned off, so it got turned on, I got on the bike, and tried to calibrate it, usually shows some number like 2.5, today it was like 6, I thought odd, anyway, got on the bike, set off, and damn I dunno wth was happening, I only averaged 197W and I was going pretty damnd hard!0
-
What sort of turbo? On a Computrainer there is a roll down calibration check. 2.5 would be about right but 6 would indicate the roller is set too hard against the tyre. I can't say for other turbos though.freehub wrote:I got on the turbo today, it was turned off, so it got turned on, I got on the bike, and tried to calibrate it, usually shows some number like 2.5, today it was like 6, I thought odd, anyway, got on the bike, set off, and damn I dunno wth was happening, I only averaged 197W and I was going pretty damnd hard!
Also, calibrations should be done after a good warm up (15-min) as it will change as the tyre and the ergo unit warms up.0
