Big fat winter power training thread
Comments
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BeaconRuth wrote:
However, it sounds like Pokerface knows more about you than we do:
You're gonna have to take diet a bit more seriously if Pokerface isn't telling porkies. You're trying to turn your body into a Formula One car but you're going and putting the most awful, rubbishy fuel in it!Pokerface wrote:But if you want to lose more, you have to buckle down. No more boozy nights, pizza, curries, etc, etc.
Ruth
I didn't mean to imply Nap eats like that all the time. Every once in a while probably. He can tell you more.
I just figure if you want to lose - you have to cut it down to a minimum. At least until the weight comes OFF. It's easier to maintain your weight than it is to drop excess - as we know!0 -
Cheers for the pointers Ruth!
My food problem comes from the Mrs... No support for my goals from her whatsoever, in fact, the opposite! :shock:
Me not wanting to eat badness is a constant source of arguing in our house...
I will just crack on this year and get as much experience of bunch riding as I can then next year I will be a true 'beacon' of QuadPowertm.0 -
Oh dear. I feel for you. Must be difficult.NapoleonD wrote:Me not wanting to eat badness is a constant source of arguing in our house...
Ruth0 -
+1BeaconRuth wrote:
Well, I don't know quite what you mean by "high intensity stuff" but the first issue to address as a road racer is to ensure that your basic cruising speed is high enough for you to stay with the bunch. (Yeah, I know at Shrewsbury there's a lot of acceleration out of corners, but without good basic aerobic fitness you'll be out the back before you know it.) Developing your basic aerobic energy metabolism can come from good-quality tempo work which is fine done on the turbo if you can take the boredom. In your shoes I'd be spending a good proportion of my winter turbo sessions doing solid 60mins-90mins sessions in the range 220-250W. Absolutely crucial for you, I'd say.NapoleonD wrote:I have been pretty much just doing high intensity stuff on the trainer with the odd time I get to manage a 2 hour ride here and there. It's my wife's shifts, not mine that's the problem, I can't plan week to week
[free coaching blag paragraph] Would I be better doing more longer rides at tempo then? What sort of length of time at that intensity? [/free coaching blag paragraph]
However, it sounds like Pokerface knows more about you than we do:
You're gonna have to take diet a bit more seriously if Pokerface isn't telling porkies. You're trying to turn your body into a Formula One car but you're going and putting the most awful, rubbishy fuel in it!Pokerface wrote:But if you want to lose more, you have to buckle down. No more boozy nights, pizza, curries, etc, etc.
Ruth
it sounds like you've been trying a "pull up" approach to lifting threshold power. That's needed at times but for the most part, "push up" is more sustainable and highly effective.
Get enough sleep? Consistently?0 -
Developing your basic aerobic energy metabolism can come from good-quality tempo work which is fine done on the turbo if you can take the boredom. In your shoes I'd be spending a good proportion of my winter turbo sessions doing solid 60mins-90mins sessions in the range 220-250W. Absolutely crucial for you, I'd say.
Hi Ruth,
My current goal is to hang on to the back of a CAT4 race, so interested in your comments. I've got an HRM but not a power meter. Are you suggesting the 60-90 min sessions should be straight through (ie no recovery periods) at around 85% MHR ?0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
Get enough sleep? Consistently?
No, I work a rolling shift pattern and often have to stay up / get up early to look after the kids. I often have to go around 26hrs without sleep...0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Get enough sleep? Consistently?
I'm hearing that................. 6 week old baby = form out of the window!
first race in 2 weeks
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Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:it sounds like you've been trying a "pull up" approach to lifting threshold power. That's needed at times but for the most part, "push up" is more sustainable and highly effective.
Alex - what's the difference between pull up and push up?0 -
I took it to mean raising FTP by doing lots of short, high intensity stuff, rather than longer, lower-intensity work, or even a mixture of both. Could be totally wrong though... :-)Le Blaireau (1)0
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robrauy wrote:Hi Ruth,
My current goal is to hang on to the back of a CAT4 race, so interested in your comments. I've got an HRM but not a power meter. Are you suggesting the 60-90 min sessions should be straight through (ie no recovery periods) at around 85% MHR ?
My name isn't Ruth but I'll throw this in. On a 25 mile ride I'll get around 18mph solo through rolling valleys with a heart rate around 170. I turned up to a road race today and got 22mph average with my average heart rate at 154 (finished with the bunch sprint). No small part due to riding at the back of the peloton and switching sides to shield against the wind after corners. I do not understand people who make their riding much harder then it has to be. I would of been toast if I had ridden like I saw some stronger cyclists did, straight into the wind without a care. Make sure you know wind direction on the course, even if it means getting odd looks for staring at how the wind is moving grass.
A bit of thought can be the difference between being dropped and finishing. It's not just how 'strong' you are which I think people take a bit too far. It's a race not a time trial.The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
DaveyL wrote:I took it to mean raising FTP by doing lots of short, high intensity stuff, rather than longer, lower-intensity work, or even a mixture of both. Could be totally wrong though... :-)
I think I worked it out - and like you said it's the difference between doing efforts that are above FTP for shorter periods of time versus doing sub-FTP (tempo) efforts for longer periods of time.
Or something like that.0 -
A bit of thought can be the difference between being dropped and finishing. It's not just how 'strong' you are which I think people take a bit too far. It's a race not a time trial.
Absolutely agree. But as a beginner to road racing I think it is inevitable that you will need to use brute strength to make up for a lack of race craft to a certain extent. (in my limited experience anyway).0 -
Much better today...
Need to sort my nouse now though as I ended up off the front with some really fast guys (2 Wheelbase Herbalife guys and a few from a local racing team) and ended up blowing. Didn't realise what I had done until I did it! I consequently missed the guys behind overtaking me as I hadn't recovered. Doh!
However, next time they came round though I was comfortable, could have done better in the 'bunch sprint' but remained seated as I had been lapped and was a bit sheepish!
Next week I'll realise when I'm doing something stupid, I'm sure of it!0 -
In essence that's it - but I mean in terms of the balance of workload through the intensity spectrum. It's not an either/or thing.Pokerface wrote:DaveyL wrote:I took it to mean raising FTP by doing lots of short, high intensity stuff, rather than longer, lower-intensity work, or even a mixture of both. Could be totally wrong though... :-)
I think I worked it out - and like you said it's the difference between doing efforts that are above FTP for shorter periods of time versus doing sub-FTP (tempo) efforts for longer periods of time.
Or something like that.0 -
robrauy wrote:......Are you suggesting the 60-90 min sessions should be straight through (ie no recovery periods) at around 85% MHR ?
Yes, tempo is straight through with no rests and it usually works out at 80-85% MHR.--
"Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."0 -
nmcgann wrote:robrauy wrote:......Are you suggesting the 60-90 min sessions should be straight through (ie no recovery periods) at around 85% MHR ?
Yes, tempo is straight through with no rests and it usually works out at 80-85% MHR.
Ughhh! Sounds grim :shock:
Next week I'll try a 10min Warm up followed by 60Mins at 85%...Just hope there's something good on TV
Should I compensate for HR drift and try to keep the power constant, or stick to a fairly rigid 85% MHR ?0 -
Just back from my first outing of the season... Didn't get anything other than a bunch finish but pleased with how I rode, had 2 digs off the front, one on my own for a good 5+ miles and kept thinking to myself "i've done training rides this witner that were harder than this!" Best race I've ridden in ages, I reckon.
Best of all, despite a couple of hairy moments, I didn't just bimble along at the back of the bunch to keep from mixing it. I did get pushed down the pack too easily, but I kept pulling my way back up again. Even thought about having another go on the last lap... Nothing in the legs when I got into the wind though!
Structured training, more rest and a better attitude about my chances... Made up. Hometown race next weekend on a better course for me, see how my growing confidence goes there!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
robrauy wrote:
Ughhh! Sounds grim :shock:
Next week I'll try a 10min Warm up followed by 60Mins at 85%...Just hope there's something good on TV
Should I compensate for HR drift and try to keep the power constant, or stick to a fairly rigid 85% MHR ?
Yeah, it's boring and uncomfortable on the turbo doing long sessions at 85%. I do >1h tempo sessions on the road if I possibly can.
I do them by power, so ignore HR drift. I'd say keep the effort level constant and let HR rise a bit.--
"Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."0 -
It's a bit tricky talking about only heart rates to control or define sessions but usually a solid hour in the region of 85%maxHR would be pretty demanding. I'd suggest you go a bit easier than that. And it would be better to focus on a more reliable and objective measure such as cadence or rear wheel speed and just aim for an hour with your HR in the range 75%-85%. (It's never a good idea to base training on nothing but HR - even perceived effort should take precedence over HR unless you really are totally new to doing any structured training.)robrauy wrote:Ughhh! Sounds grim :shock:
Next week I'll try a 10min Warm up followed by 60Mins at 85%...Just hope there's something good on TV
Should I compensate for HR drift and try to keep the power constant, or stick to a fairly rigid 85% MHR ?
Ruth0 -
fastercyclist wrote:robrauy wrote:Hi Ruth,
My current goal is to hang on to the back of a CAT4 race, so interested in your comments. I've got an HRM but not a power meter. Are you suggesting the 60-90 min sessions should be straight through (ie no recovery periods) at around 85% MHR ?
My name isn't Ruth but I'll throw this in. On a 25 mile ride I'll get around 18mph solo through rolling valleys with a heart rate around 170. I turned up to a road race today and got 22mph average with my average heart rate at 154 (finished with the bunch sprint). No small part due to riding at the back of the peloton and switching sides to shield against the wind after corners. I do not understand people who make their riding much harder then it has to be. I would of been toast if I had ridden like I saw some stronger cyclists did, straight into the wind without a care. Make sure you know wind direction on the course, even if it means getting odd looks for staring at how the wind is moving grass.
A bit of thought can be the difference between being dropped and finishing. It's not just how 'strong' you are which I think people take a bit too far. It's a race not a time trial.
Riding at the back only makes things harder - the pace is far smoother at the front and you'll tend to get stuck behind riders drifting off the back and have to close gaps. Apart from that you aren't really in the race - you can't respond to anything or attack very easily.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Thanks for all your advice..
Might actually give the turbo a miss tomorrow and get out in the fresh air!0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST --- Sep -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Oct -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Nov -- 300watts -- 78kg -- 3.8 w/kg
Amaferanga
March -- 280watts -- 68kg -- 4.1w/kg
Bhima
Oct -- 278watts -- 58kg -- 4.8 w/kg
Feb -- 286watts -- 62kg -- 4.6 w/kg
Mar -- 292watts -- 62kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Bronzie
Dec -- 260watts -- 74kg -- 3.5 w/kg
Jan -- 250watts -- 75kg -- 3.3 w/kg
Disgruntledgoat
Nov -- 332watts -- 76kg -- 4.4 w/kg
Dec -- 338watts -- 74kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Feb -- 346watts -- 74kg -- 4.67 w/kg
Jeff Jones
Oct -- 325watts -- 69kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Feb -- 315watts? -- 70kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Mar -- 334watts -- 69kg -- 4.85 w/kg
JibberJim
Nov -- 295watts -- 75kg -- 3.9 w/kg
Dec -- 300watts -- 75kg -- 4.0 w/kg
Feb -- 310watts -- 74kg -- 4.2 w/kg
NapD
Sep -- 220watts -- 96kg -- 2.3 w/kg
Nov -- 277watts -- 89kg -- 3.1 w/kg
Mar --- 280watts--91kg -- 3.1w/kg
Phil S
Oct -- 305watts -- 71kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Rokkala
Nov -- 312watts -- 73kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Mar -- 341watts -- 73kg -- 4.67 w/kg
slunker
Feb -- 300watts -- 72kg -- 4.16 w/kg
Mar -- 310watts -- 71kg -- 4.36 w/kg
NickD
Jan -- 235watts -- 73kg -- 3.2 w/kg
Feb -- 255watts -- 73kg -- 3.5 w/kg
hopper1
Feb -- 220watts -- 76kg -- 2.89 w/kg
mididoctors
Feb -- 223Watts -- 83kg -- 2.68 w/kg
That wasn't fun although it's good to see improvement i've felt hasn't all been in my head!
**edit: Had put 349 instead of 341.0 -
Did a tempo session for an hour today, but based on HR as I used my racing bike...
It was hard but I can see that that is the way forward for me!
Weighed myself and I've lost 2kg over the last couple of weeks.
I'm going to do one of these tempo days Tues, Threshold / TT Weds then on Thurs either a long steady ride or a chain gang.
Off/recovery Friday and whatever I can salvage out of a weekend be it a race or just a ride on my bike!
I just can't comprehend how someone who has the same amount of time to train as me would ever be able to put out over 300 watts in an hour. Let alone do it and be 20kg or more lighter than me!!
It's sooooo frustrating 0 -
NapoleonD wrote:
I just can't comprehend how someone who has the same amount of time to train as me would ever be able to put out over 300 watts in an hour. Let alone do it and be 20kg or more lighter than me!!
It's sooooo frustrating
Use my methodology, which is anyone better than me is clearly on drugs "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
are you guys getting linear improvements? some people i know are getting x watts extra every month. will it slow down?
looking at some of your numbers: it could be 6 months before some of you are at 'pro' level IF it is continuing at the same rate0 -
I'm getting zero improvements!0
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I'd be interested to know what type of power measurement and protocol the folk with the big numbers and the big gains are using (no accusations - just curious) .
If they're using PowerTaps/SRMs then I hope they're not in any of the races I enter this year More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:I'd be interested to know what type of power measurement and protocol the folk with the big numbers and the big gains are using (no accusations - just curious) .
If they're using PowerTaps/SRMs then I hope they're not in any of the races I enter this year
Using rear wheel speed and the formula supplied with the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. Keeping Tyre pressure the same and working on the 20mph spin-down test to calibrate it as per the instructions.
It may not be accurate, but it's at least consistently inaccurate and seems to be in the area. I'm certainly going better than I have been for a long old while, the speeds I'm pulling on certain points of our local TT route in training are showing me that there's definitely improvement there."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
amaferanga wrote:I'd be interested to know what type of power measurement and protocol the folk with the big numbers and the big gains are using (no accusations - just curious) .
If they're using PowerTaps/SRMs then I hope they're not in any of the races I enter this year
On the turbo which measures power for me, same tyre pressure, same time warming up on it beforehand. I check the watts produced at certain cadences in certain gears to make sure it is still the same.
15min warm-up, 5 min blow-out, 10 min spinning, then 20min threshold.
I was expecting an improvement since November, as I didn't have much endurance from longer rides in me last year and this was my first winter of cycling, been on the bike 4 or 5 times a week since end of Jan and feel a lot stronger than i did last year because I have some stamina now.
First race a week on Saturday (if i get on the start list), so i'll see how i go. I think other people are better/more prepared at suffering than i am though, so not expecting much.
Powertap is on order too(shortage in the UK for last month or so now), so hopefully it will translate to that when I get it too!0
