Big fat winter power training thread
Comments
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Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:From people who I know who have been tested, they have quite large groups of people identified for the Olympic Development team for instance, and they just bank test them all in relatively large groups, and may pick 1 or 2. Like I said they're consistent, so you can still identify the potential strongest riders out of a group.
I guess I should be pleased they picked me then!
Hey, certainly! A couple of young lads from my team have tried. One didn't get in (MTBer) and the other did (road + track). Seems like a very high standard of riders they're selecting.
(It's not what you think) Irish National Paralympic Squad. Still had to go through the testing though!
Well, the lad who did qualify can compete for both the regular and para-Olympics, so you may encounter him! What kind of events are you looking at competing in?"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:Well, the lad who did qualify can compete for both the regular and para-Olympics, so you may encounter him! What kind of events are you looking at competing in?
I may know him - what's his name?
I'll be doing mostly road and TT this year as there aren't a lot of track events.
But will eventually have to do both road and track - and will probably be doing everything from the kilo to pursuit on the track and RR and TT. Ireland prefers their riders to 'do it all'.
The first UK disability circuit race is on Saturday - he might be there?0 -
Australian Institute of Sport (or it might have been South AIS) did scientific testing and found similar results - the accuracy wasn't up to claims.mididoctors wrote:so do I
they big up the accuracy in the sales blurb... ok not unbiased
@shocked where did you get this notion from?0 -
Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:Well, the lad who did qualify can compete for both the regular and para-Olympics, so you may encounter him! What kind of events are you looking at competing in?
I may know him - what's his name?
I'll be doing mostly road and TT this year as there aren't a lot of track events.
But will eventually have to do both road and track - and will probably be doing everything from the kilo to pursuit on the track and RR and TT. Ireland prefers their riders to 'do it all'.
The first UK disability circuit race is on Saturday - he might be there?
He's called Alex Bottomley. I think he's racing road this weekend though. He's a good lad, definite one to watch. He's 16 and can put away pretty much everyone round here on the hills!"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
Nice shot on Google street view btw!0
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ShockedSoShocked wrote:He's called Alex Bottomley. I think he's racing road this weekend though. He's a good lad, definite one to watch. He's 16 and can put away pretty much everyone round here on the hills!
If he has a disability - I'd be very surprised if they would be grooming him for anything but the Para squad. To date, no one from the Paralympic squad has ever made the leap to the able-bodied squad. At least not on the men's side. Maybe he'll be the first!0 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:mididoctors wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:
The wattbike will be way off with your true FTP (they aren't particularly valid).
really?
consistently in one direction or just all over the place?
The difference will be consistent to the watt bikes, but you may be higher or lower if you used a Lode Ergometer or a PowerTap for instance. So if you improve in may it's still an improvement when you use one again!
consistent with each other or over time?
does that mean i have to get back on the same watt bike? or any watt bike?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Very surprised to hear that given their price tag - what sort of percentage error was discovered?Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
Australian Institute of Sport (or it might have been South AIS) did scientific testing and found similar results - the accuracy wasn't up to claims.mididoctors wrote:so do I
they big up the accuracy in the sales blurb... ok not unbiased
@shocked where did you get this notion from?0 -
Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:He's called Alex Bottomley. I think he's racing road this weekend though. He's a good lad, definite one to watch. He's 16 and can put away pretty much everyone round here on the hills!
If he has a disability - I'd be very surprised if they would be grooming him for anything but the Para squad. To date, no one from the Paralympic squad has ever made the leap to the able-bodied squad. At least not on the men's side. Maybe he'll be the first!
The issue is with his hand (so doesn't affect really his cycling), as he was born without any digits on one. He has had some toes grafted on so he can use it pretty much as normal, but the issue is with his grip strength and reach (however with the introduction of Di2 that isn't an issue either now). They're sending him to a UCI Dr in Germany at some point to asses which side of the line he falls basically. They're trying to get him into the para squad for 2012 as he'd be facing world class pros in the regular Olympics by the sounds of what he's told me, but he'd be hoping to compete in the regular squad for 2014 onwards.
@Mididoctors. I think all the wattbikes are calibrated in the same factory where they're produced so they should be consistent with each other."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
I think I should clarify inaccurate information given about the Wattbike. But first let me declare an interest – I’m the sports scientist at Wattbike.
1. BCF and Cycling Ireland have freely purchased Wattbikes - they did not receive them free. The Wattbike is also now in use with other elite sports.
2. Expensive (Lode) doesn't mean better - only expensive (limited market) – and I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with Lode’s – I’ve used them.
3. The Wattbike was designed to be a very accurate test and training tool that could be used by elite cyclist, general cyclist, recreational and fitness users (very much like the Concept 2 rower which is also used for accurately testing and training of elite rowers through to general fitness use). It therefore has a wider audience than say a lab based Lode or SRM system hence the competitive price in comparison.
4. It is as accurate as a SRM so 200 W on a Wattbike is the same as 200 W on an SRM - go here to see a comparison test.
http://wattbike.com/uk/wattbike/calibra ... _wattbike/
It was also tested by EIS and found to do exactly what it says on the can
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Let me declare an interest, I don't really care if they're accurate or not.
How does the link you give prove that your product is accurate because all I see on the link provided is that Wattbike is accurate compared with srm because you say it is.
You'd have thought that for such a product you'd have a link to some data examples showing a comparison to srm and watt bike (a bit like Alex did for the computrainer.)
Also your link to youtube ('setting the time mode'?????) has absolutely no relevance at all, did you post the right link?
Sorry, that's pretty shoddy, Alex has made a big claim against your product and all you can do is post a 'wrong' youtube link and a statement like 'our product is accurate because we say it is.'
Sorry, this may sound harsh but you've just wasted my time, you posted links to prove your products accuracy and all I got was nothing.0 -
To be fair Alex has stated someone tested them (but not quite sure who) and they didn't come up to claims. No details of that report to substantiate that claim though and to what extent they didnt meet the claims.
What's the difference between Watt Bike proving the calibration of their bikes to the + or - 2% they claim they set them to in the factory than SRM or Power Tap proving that when you zero one of their meters it's actually accurate as you go up through your power range?
I don't seem to recall Watt Bike claiming to have lab standard accuracy so why are we singling them out for criticism? Generally the more accurate you want a machine to be, the more it costs and the more time you spend calibrating and re-calibrating it. Seems like Wattbikes try to strike a balance between accuracy and minimal maintenance. Doesnt sound unreasonable for something they are trying to place in high use environments.
If they are accurate to within + or - 2% that doesnt sound a big issue on the grand scheme of things. You seem to be getting a bit excited about not much Chris
I shan't declare an interest as I haven't got one0 -
As I said I don't care about the accuracy, I looked for curiosity sake (wish I hadn't now,)
I'm Just p.'d off that I wasted time following links that prove nothing. Just expected a little bit better tbh.
Yes sorry, I am getting a little bit over excited. Was expecting some good maths at the end of the week and end up with probably more marketing bs instead.
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Thanks.0
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To me this is the much more interesting page on that site:
http://wattbike.com/uk/wattbike/calibra ... _wattbike/0 -
Chris
My apologises for the incorrect link and my thanks to Jeff for posting the correct link and to doyler78 for linking to the calibration page (which I wrote). Hadn't realised that our webmaster had linked the video on that page.
I've edited the link in my original post for future forum readers.
The video does show the Wattbike measurement system AND the Wattbike being measured by the SRM system
I'm a scientist wouldn't know 'marketing bs' if it slapped me in the face :shock:0 -
Eddie Fletcher wrote:Chris
My apologises for the incorrect link and my thanks to Jeff for posting the correct link.
I didn't say 'our product is accurate because we say it is'. I'm a scientist wouldn't know 'marketing bs' if it slapped me in the face :shock:
No problems.
A few graphical comparisons would be nice, you do know how to plot graphs?
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Chris
I have graphs coming out my ears! 0 -
Hi Eddie.
I recently used a wattbike. We had a challege with who could cycle the furthest in an hour. Most people posted scores of between 33-35km (I posted the highest at 38km). I am one of the only trained cyclists who took part. For that hour I averaged just over 250watts, and the other people were pretty close. How is it that un-trained people can apparently average a very similar wattage? This would also suggest that these people have a peak power of over 400watts (otherwise they could not sustain it for an hour) which I certainly do not believe. I doubt any of these people could realistically sustain that wattage for an hour.
How can you explain that?"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:Hi Eddie.
I recently used a wattbike. We had a challege with who could cycle the furthest in an hour. Most people posted scores of between 33-35km (I posted the highest at 38km). I am one of the only trained cyclists who took part. For that hour I averaged just over 250watts, and the other people were pretty close. How is it that un-trained people can apparently average a very similar wattage? This would also suggest that these people have a peak power of over 400watts (otherwise they could not sustain it for an hour) which I certainly do not believe. I doubt any of these people could realistically sustain that wattage for an hour.
How can you explain that?
I'm thinking that them being 'only' 3km behind you, might be a bigger margin than you think. How much watts did they need for those distances? Again though is this another example where speed and distance are pretty irrelevant on any turbo.
As for peak power, what duration do you mean?
Then again, they may have been close to you because your 5hit. 0 -
fight fight fight! 0
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No no no
i was only joking. 0 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:Hi Eddie.
I recently used a wattbike. We had a challege with who could cycle the furthest in an hour. Most people posted scores of between 33-35km (I posted the highest at 38km). I am one of the only trained cyclists who took part. For that hour I averaged just over 250watts, and the other people were pretty close. How is it that un-trained people can apparently average a very similar wattage? This would also suggest that these people have a peak power of over 400watts (otherwise they could not sustain it for an hour) which I certainly do not believe. I doubt any of these people could realistically sustain that wattage for an hour.
How can you explain that?
heat"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST --- Sep -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Oct -- 280watts -- 78kg -- 3.6 w/kg
Nov -- 300watts -- 78kg -- 3.8 w/kg
Andy Turnbull
March -- 303watts -- 68kg -- 4.5w/kg
Amaferanga
March -- 280watts -- 68kg -- 4.1w/kg
Bhima
Oct -- 278watts -- 58kg -- 4.8 w/kg
Feb -- 286watts -- 62kg -- 4.6 w/kg
Mar -- 292watts -- 62kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Bronzie
Dec -- 260watts -- 74kg -- 3.5 w/kg
Jan -- 250watts -- 75kg -- 3.3 w/kg
Disgruntledgoat
Nov -- 332watts -- 76kg -- 4.4 w/kg
Dec -- 338watts -- 74kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Feb -- 346watts -- 74kg -- 4.67 w/kg
Jeff Jones
Oct -- 325watts -- 69kg -- 4.7 w/kg
Feb -- 315watts? -- 70kg -- 4.5 w/kg
Mar -- 334watts -- 69kg -- 4.85 w/kg
JibberJim
Nov -- 295watts -- 75kg -- 3.9 w/kg
Dec -- 300watts -- 75kg -- 4.0 w/kg
Feb -- 310watts -- 74kg -- 4.2 w/kg
Mar -- 320watts -- 75kg -- 4.3 w/kg
NapD
Sep -- 220watts -- 96kg -- 2.3 w/kg
Nov -- 277watts -- 89kg -- 3.1 w/kg
Mar --- 280watts--91kg -- 3.1w/kg
Phil S
Oct -- 305watts -- 71kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Rokkala
Nov -- 312watts -- 73kg -- 4.3 w/kg
Mar -- 341watts -- 73kg -- 4.67 w/kg
slunker
Feb -- 300watts -- 72kg -- 4.16 w/kg
Mar -- 310watts -- 71kg -- 4.36 w/kg
NickD
Jan -- 235watts -- 73kg -- 3.2 w/kg
Feb -- 255watts -- 73kg -- 3.5 w/kg
hopper1
Feb -- 220watts -- 76kg -- 2.89 w/kg
mididoctors
Feb -- 223Watts -- 83kg -- 2.68 w/kg0 -
Hi folks.
Ok - I've finally got a score on the board, but I've got mixed feelings... T
he figure is calculated as per Coggan's book from my 20 minute average power - measured at a 10m TT this morning.
The TT time itself was quite disappointing - 22:48 in pretty much perfectly still wind conditions, although it was very cold (2c). I measured 319w average this morning, which is round about what I was expecting.... but I expected to go about a minute faster for that output!
What this means is that when I've ridden a minute and half faster on the same course, I must have been putting out 50w more - or pacing myself a lot better? I'll see more when I can get an upload of the ride file.
Cheers, Andy0 -
Or you just go faster for the same power in warmer conditions. (A reduction in air density will have a very noticeable effect on your speed.)andrewgturnbull wrote:What this means is that when I've ridden a minute and half faster on the same course, I must have been putting out 50w more - or pacing myself a lot better?
Ruth0 -
Yep, if it were 20C instead of 2C, you'd be about 30 seconds faster.BeaconRuth wrote:
Or you just go faster for the same power in warmer conditions. (A reduction in air density will have a very noticeable effect on your speed.)andrewgturnbull wrote:What this means is that when I've ridden a minute and half faster on the same course, I must have been putting out 50w more - or pacing myself a lot better?
Ruth
And if you were wearing any kind of cold weather clothing that was not skin tight, that could also slow you down substantially.0 -
Massive difference between 33-35k and 38k in watts the relationship (derived) between watts and and speed is not linear! 33kph is only about 150 W!0
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Eddie Fletcher wrote:Massive difference between 33-35k and 38k in watts the relationship (derived) between watts and and speed is not linear! 33kph is only about 150 W!
Yup - try putting the numbers into this calculator, it seems to be fairly accurate. I pick the 'Triathlon Bicycle' option to approximate a full TT aero setup.
http://www.noping.net/english/
Cheers, Andy0
