Big fat winter power training thread
Comments
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doyler78 wrote:I take it you know that you can change this if its a powertap so that it averages including zeros whilst still moving.
I've mine setup so that I include watts on speed and watts but not on cadence.
Yes - I am aware. I have it set that way on purpose. It allows me to have the best of both world's ) - I can see my realistic power production while riding - and view the ACTUAL numbers afterwards.0 -
mididoctors wrote:Pokerface wrote:
May also depend on how his powermeter measures/displays 0w efforts..
I suspect this is the issue
so in effect yours and his power meter may not be a true average against the time of the ride just time spent pedaling
yes?
pretty fundamental difference
It is possible. Depends on his settings. As just mentioned - I set mine this way on purpose. But I get to see the ACTUAL figure when I download all the data. (I don't show my data to anyone during the ride - so it's only for my own benefit.
The default setting is to have it average the power over the entire ride, regardless of power/cadence, etc.
You have to dig pretty deep into the settings menu to change it, so I suspect unless he's a techno geek (like I am), he's got his on the default setting.0 -
freehub wrote:So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
done properly i suspect its very useful despite being relatively ignorant of its use as a training aid.
and remember its power to weight..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
freehub wrote:So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
Will - 2 things:
First - yes, your FTP is important to some degree, depending on what you use it for. Just knowing what it is, but never making changes to your training based around the figure isn't going to help you.
But if you know it and use it to create a training plan to address your own personal weaknesses, then it can be important.
End of day - if you have a low FTP but still do well in races, club runs, TTs, etc - then it doesn't matter.
Second - I suspect that yours is a lot higher than you think and until you do some proper testing with some decent equipment in a more controlled environment - you'll never know for certain.
If you race as well as you do and ride as well as you do - I'd be shocked if it wasn't higher than you have estimated.0 -
freehub wrote:So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
I reckon the power readings you are getting are way off.
1. You are as aero as a brick with that old mans fit of yours.
2. You are not that light.
So I reckon, with the speeds you are capable of both on the flat and uphill, that the power readings you show me are way lower than what you would get with a powertap/SRM.
But in the end Will, the power readings should only matter to you and your coach, as it's consistency between readings that will show improvements and what's working trainingwise for you. Comparing your power readings to other peoples is just willy waving in the end, because people are using different PM systems, especially turbo based ones like the one you are using will give a different power to a bike based PM.0 -
Pokerface wrote:mididoctors wrote:Pokerface wrote:
May also depend on how his powermeter measures/displays 0w efforts..
I suspect this is the issue
so in effect yours and his power meter may not be a true average against the time of the ride just time spent pedaling
yes?
pretty fundamental difference
It is possible. Depends on his settings. As just mentioned - I set mine this way on purpose. But I get to see the ACTUAL figure when I download all the data. (I don't show my data to anyone during the ride - so it's only for my own benefit.
The default setting is to have it average the power over the entire ride, regardless of power/cadence, etc.
You have to dig pretty deep into the settings menu to change it, so I suspect unless he's a techno geek (like I am), he's got his on the default setting.
hmmmm so your riding 220's (say?) and the difference is roughly 10% as a guesstimate?
I still find that surprising but will defer to your greater knowledge."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
OT I know, but what i find amazing is that 'most people' even know there FTP. I don't think anyone I ride with would have a clue. I think that we must be very backward here. Certainly the only person I've ever seen with a powertap had no idea what his FTP was!0 -
mididoctors wrote:hmmmm so your riding 220's (say?) and the difference is roughly 10% as a guesstimate?
I still find that surprising but will defer to your greater knowledge.
No - I usually do n ACTUAL average of between 200 and 210w for a 3 hour, 50 mile ride.
But there's not a lot of freewheeling in that ride.0 -
Pokerface wrote:mididoctors wrote:hmmmm so your riding 220's (say?) and the difference is roughly 10% as a guesstimate?
I still find that surprising but will defer to your greater knowledge.
No - I usually do n ACTUAL average of between 200 and 210w for a 3 hour, 50 mile ride.
But there's not a lot of freewheeling in that ride.
so the inflated ignore zero pedaling average for that ride would be roughly?
finding this conversation useful btw"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
inseine wrote:So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
OT I know, but what i find amazing is that 'most people' even know there FTP. I don't think anyone I ride with would have a clue. I think that we must be very backward here. Certainly the only person I've ever seen with a powertap had no idea what his FTP was!
the only reason I know mine was a passing BCF coached measured it on a watt bike... apparently he is coming back in May so will get another go.."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
inseine wrote:So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
OT I know, but what i find amazing is that 'most people' even know there FTP. I don't think anyone I ride with would have a clue. I think that we must be very backward here. Certainly the only person I've ever seen with a powertap had no idea what his FTP was!
Well if he doesn't have a clue what his FTP is that either means he has a coach who keeps in the dark or he isn't making any use of it as everything is related to FTP (or other metrics which effectively try to determine similiar things) for analysis. In other words he has a heavy, useless, expensive lump of a hub on his back wheel.
I think he probably does have know his FTP.0 -
Got my measured 10 years ago as part of a 10 minute ramp test to exhaustion where they read your deflection (Conconi) point as your threshold. Don't know if this is even recognised as correct any more.
I had a rubbish threshold of 240w but at least my W/kg was an OK 4.2.0 -
Most power numbers are quoted as average power (including zeros) and normalised power (an estimate of the true physiological effect of the ride, and a way of accounting for coasting).
On a flat course with no coasting, average power should equal normalised power. On a hilly course, normalised power can be significantly higher (I've seen 10%) than average power.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
mididoctors wrote:Pokerface wrote:mididoctors wrote:hmmmm so your riding 220's (say?) and the difference is roughly 10% as a guesstimate?
I still find that surprising but will defer to your greater knowledge.
No - I usually do n ACTUAL average of between 200 and 210w for a 3 hour, 50 mile ride.
But there's not a lot of freewheeling in that ride.
so the inflated ignore zero pedaling average for that ride would be roughly?
finding this conversation useful btw
Between 205 and 215w0 -
inseine wrote:Got my measured 10 years ago as part of a 10 minute ramp test to exhaustion where they read your deflection (Conconi) point as your threshold. Don't know if this is even recognised as correct any more.
I had a rubbish threshold of 240w but at least my W/kg was an OK 4.2.
How tall and how much do you weight.
Last night when I averaged 253W at my weight my w/kg was 3.2.0 -
freehub wrote:inseine wrote:Got my measured 10 years ago as part of a 10 minute ramp test to exhaustion where they read your deflection (Conconi) point as your threshold. Don't know if this is even recognised as correct any more.
I had a rubbish threshold of 240w but at least my W/kg was an OK 4.2.
How tall and how much do you weight.
Last night when I averaged 253W at my weight my w/kg was 3.2.
Will don't get worked up about other peoples power readings. IMO the readings you are getting don't seem right, and you should only be using them to compare to readings you get on the same system.
Don't worry about what other people are getting because you go faster on the road than the power readings would imply.0 -
How tall and how much do you weight.Don't worry about what other people are getting because you go faster on the road than the power readings would imply.
He's right, doesn't matter about anyone else, BUT FYI I'm 1.70, 57kgs
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inseine wrote:How tall and how much do you weight.Don't worry about what other people are getting because you go faster on the road than the power readings would imply.
He's right, doesn't matter about anyone else, BUT FYI I'm 1.70, 57kgs
I have bigger turds than that! :oops: :oops:0 -
I have bigger turds than that!
More attractive too probably. Before anyone else says it 0 -
mididoctors wrote:inseine wrote:So does FTP mean allot then? Cause tbh, I certaily don't ever get left behind and am usually in the top few/ 1st on hills and all that and my FTP is no where near most peoples.
OT I know, but what i find amazing is that 'most people' even know there FTP. I don't think anyone I ride with would have a clue. I think that we must be very backward here. Certainly the only person I've ever seen with a powertap had no idea what his FTP was!
the only reason I know mine was a passing BCF coached measured it on a watt bike... apparently he is coming back in May so will get another go..
The wattbike will be way off with your true FTP (they aren't particularly valid)."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:
The wattbike will be way off with your true FTP (they aren't particularly valid).
really?
consistently in one direction or just all over the place?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
mididoctors wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:
The wattbike will be way off with your true FTP (they aren't particularly valid).
really?
consistently in one direction or just all over the place?
The difference will be consistent to the watt bikes, but you may be higher or lower if you used a Lode Ergometer or a PowerTap for instance. So if you improve in may it's still an improvement when you use one again!"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
I thought the Wattbikes were meant to be very accurate...0
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NapoleonD wrote:I thought the Wattbikes were meant to be very accurate...
They're consistent, not accurate shall we say. You wouldn't get a research paper passed by using them for instance, there'd be massive validity issues."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I thought the Wattbikes were meant to be very accurate...
They're consistent, not accurate shall we say. You wouldn't get a research paper passed by using them for instance, there'd be massive validity issues.
I find it odd that you say that, given that both BCF and Cycling Ireland use them as the basis of their power testing.0 -
Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I thought the Wattbikes were meant to be very accurate...
They're consistent, not accurate shall we say. You wouldn't get a research paper passed by using them for instance, there'd be massive validity issues.
I find it odd that you say that, given that both BCF and Cycling Ireland use them as the basis of their power testing.
so do I
they big up the accuracy in the sales blurb... ok not unbiased
@shocked where did you get this notion from?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I thought the Wattbikes were meant to be very accurate...
They're consistent, not accurate shall we say. You wouldn't get a research paper passed by using them for instance, there'd be massive validity issues.
I find it odd that you say that, given that both BCF and Cycling Ireland use them as the basis of their power testing.
They get them for free.
From people who I know who have been tested, they have quite large groups of people identified for the Olympic Development team for instance, and they just bank test them all in relatively large groups, and may pick 1 or 2. Like I said they're consistent, so you can still identify the potential strongest riders out of a group.
There's a reason why a Wattbike costs two grand, and a Lode Ergometer will set you back about twenty five grand.
http://www.lode.nl/en/products/excalibur_sport"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:From people who I know who have been tested, they have quite large groups of people identified for the Olympic Development team for instance, and they just bank test them all in relatively large groups, and may pick 1 or 2. Like I said they're consistent, so you can still identify the potential strongest riders out of a group.
I guess I should be pleased they picked me then!0 -
Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:From people who I know who have been tested, they have quite large groups of people identified for the Olympic Development team for instance, and they just bank test them all in relatively large groups, and may pick 1 or 2. Like I said they're consistent, so you can still identify the potential strongest riders out of a group.
I guess I should be pleased they picked me then!
Hey, certainly! A couple of young lads from my team have tried. One didn't get in (MTBer) and the other did (road + track). Seems like a very high standard of riders they're selecting."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:Pokerface wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:From people who I know who have been tested, they have quite large groups of people identified for the Olympic Development team for instance, and they just bank test them all in relatively large groups, and may pick 1 or 2. Like I said they're consistent, so you can still identify the potential strongest riders out of a group.
I guess I should be pleased they picked me then!
Hey, certainly! A couple of young lads from my team have tried. One didn't get in (MTBer) and the other did (road + track). Seems like a very high standard of riders they're selecting.
(It's not what you think) Irish National Paralympic Squad. Still had to go through the testing though!0
