The Richmond Park, 2007, 3-Lap challenge!

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Comments

  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kamoshikasan</i>

    Sorry, ignore my last message. I just realised I was reading this back to front and that I had 10 pages of newer messages in front of me - Doh, it's been a long week!. Seems like anti clockwise is the way to go then. I'll aim to go there this Sunday at 11 ish. I'll be riding round on my Time bike if anyone wishes to say hello!
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    try getting there fo 7am if you want to post a decent time! [8D]
  • Hehehhe dunno bout that wild, I was there this week and got stuck behind a guy on a moped at 45km,hr for a whole lap. :P

    "People setting the pace too fast on the front are abused to slow down. Riders that do not share the work are abused. Riders that need abuse get abused and the abuse is done in every language so they get the message"
  • currieinahurry
    currieinahurry Posts: 2,695
    kamo do you own an r3 as well?
    tikka

    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
  • Shavedlegs
    Shavedlegs Posts: 310
    Hi Guys,
    Went for it again on Sunday. Guess the commuting on a fixed has made a huge difference, felt great and to beat my previous time by 2 mins is a real surprise. I got to the park at about 9.15 so almost had a clear run. My wife is expecting our second baby this weekend so who knows when I can train/ride again.


    Pos--Name
    ToR*
    Dir----Wt----Time
    Mth

    1----Shavedlegs
    racer
    Anti---70kg--00:50:04--May
    2----KingstonWheeler---all
    Anti---65kg--00:51:38--Apr
    3----halfords-WK
    tba
    Clock--74kg--00:53:48--Apr
    4----rjeffroy
    racer----Anti---72kg--00:54:12--Apr
    5----m4rk
    tba
    Anti---64kg--00:54:32--Apr
    6----SOW's
    tba
    Anti---84kg--00:54:33--Apr
    7----Superlightweight--tba
    Anti---82kg--00:54:40--Apr
    8----naked_ollie
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:55:01--Apr
    9----geetee
    racer----Anti---60kg--00:55:24--Apr
    10---demongrinder
    all
    Anti---85kg--00:56:10--Apr
    11---ASRitcheson
    all
    Anti---66kg--00:56:50--Apr
    12---SeaBadger
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:57:00--Apr
    12---Toks
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:57:00--Mar
    13---statts
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:58:13--May
    14---Kap
    fitness--Anti---76kg--00:58:40--May
    15---Brixtonfixed
    fitness--Anti---81kg--00:58:45--May
    16---Grazer
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:59:20--Apr
    17---GreenLake
    fitness--Anti---88kg--01:00:37--May
    18---RichA
    tba
    Anti---86kg--01:01:35--Apr
    19---Timeless
    tba
    Anti---75kg--01:02:24--Mar
    20---mingsta
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:04:00--May
    20---London-Red
    tba
    Anti---Fat---01:04:00--Mar
    21---toontra
    touring--Anti---74kg--01:06:38--Apr
    22---KMahony
    fitness--Anti---97kg--01:08:22--Apr
    23---Billios
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:09:32--May
    24---Chocolateboy
    tba
    Anti---92kg--01:09:50--Apr
    25---DTs
    tba
    Anti---90kg--01:14:00--Mar
    26---Snakehips
    tba
    Anti---76kg--01:29:00--Apr
    27---Jonathan-Ellis----tba
    Anti---72kg--3 months--Apr

    *Type of Rider - racer/club/fitness/touring

    www.blog.shavedlegs.co.uk
  • seabadger
    seabadger Posts: 26
    table latest...

    Pos--Name
    ToR*
    Dir----Wt----Time
    Mth

    1----Shavedlegs
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:50:04--May
    2----KingstonWheeler---all
    Anti---65kg--00:51:38--Apr
    3----halfords-WK
    tba
    Clock--74kg--00:53:48--Apr
    4----SeaBadger
    tri
    Anti---80kg--00:54:08--May
    5----rjeffroy
    racer----Anti---72kg--00:54:12--Apr
    6----m4rk
    tba
    Anti---64kg--00:54:32--Apr
    7----SOW's
    tba
    Anti---84kg--00:54:33--Apr
    8----Superlightweight--tba
    Anti---82kg--00:54:40--Apr
    9----naked_ollie
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:55:01--Apr
    10---geetee
    racer----Anti---60kg--00:55:24--Apr
    11---demongrinder
    all
    Anti---85kg--00:56:10--Apr
    12---ASRitcheson
    all
    Anti---66kg--00:56:50--Apr
    13---Toks
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:57:00--Mar
    14---statts
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:58:13--May
    15---Kap
    fitness--Anti---76kg--00:58:40--May
    16---Brixtonfixed
    fitness--Anti---81kg--00:58:45--May
    17---Grazer
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:59:20--Apr
    18---GreenLake
    fitness--Anti---88kg--01:00:37--May
    19---RichA
    tba
    Anti---86kg--01:01:35--Apr
    20---Timeless
    tba
    Anti---75kg--01:02:24--Mar
    21---mingsta
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:04:00--May
    21---London-Red
    tba
    Anti---Fat---01:04:00--Mar
    22---toontra
    touring--Anti---74kg--01:06:38--Apr
    23---KMahony
    fitness--Anti---97kg--01:08:22--Apr
    24---Billios
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:09:32--May
    25---Chocolateboy
    tba
    Anti---92kg--01:09:50--Apr
    26---DTs
    tba
    Anti---90kg--01:14:00--Mar
    27---Snakehips
    tba
    Anti---76kg--01:29:00--Apr
    28---Jonathan-Ellis----tba
    Anti---72kg--3 months--Apr

    *Type of Rider - racer/club/fitness/touring
  • Toks
    Toks Posts: 1,143
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Shavedlegs</i>

    Hi Guys,
    Went for it again on Sunday. Guess the commuting on a fixed has made a huge difference, felt great and to beat my previous time by 2 mins is a real surprise. I got to the park at about 9.15 so almost had a clear run. My wife is expecting our second baby this weekend so who knows when I can train/ride again.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Erm posting that sort of time Shaved legs you can rest till next summer. I don't think half of us will even get to within a couple of minutes of your effort. Fantastic ride mate and good luck with the new baby![:)] Well KW and HWK is it game on or what?[;)]


    <font face="Courier New">Pos--Name
    ToR*
    Dir----Wt----Time
    Mth

    1----Shavedlegs
    racer
    Anti---70kg--00:50:04--May
    2----KingstonWheeler---all
    Anti---65kg--00:51:38--Apr
    3----halfords-WK
    tba
    Clock--74kg--00:53:48--Apr
    4----rjeffroy
    racer----Anti---72kg--00:54:12--Apr
    5----m4rk
    tba
    Anti---64kg--00:54:32--Apr
    6----SOW's
    tba
    Anti---84kg--00:54:33--Apr
    7----Superlightweight--tba
    Anti---82kg--00:54:40--Apr
    8----naked_ollie
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:55:01--Apr
    9----geetee
    racer----Anti---60kg--00:55:24--Apr
    10---demongrinder
    all
    Anti---85kg--00:56:10--Apr
    11---ASRitcheson
    all
    Anti---66kg--00:56:50--Apr
    12---SeaBadger
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:57:00--Apr
    12---Toks
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:57:00--Mar
    13---statts
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:58:13--May
    14---Kap
    fitness--Anti---76kg--00:58:40--May
    15---Brixtonfixed
    fitness--Anti---81kg--00:58:45--May
    16---Grazer
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:59:20--Apr
    17---GreenLake
    fitness--Anti---88kg--01:00:37--May
    18---RichA
    tba
    Anti---86kg--01:01:35--Apr
    19---Timeless
    tba
    Anti---75kg--01:02:24--Mar
    20---mingsta
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:04:00--May
    20---London-Red
    tba
    Anti---Fat---01:04:00--Mar
    21---toontra
    touring--Anti---74kg--01:06:38--Apr
    22---KMahony
    fitness--Anti---97kg--01:08:22--Apr
    23---Billios
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:09:32--May
    24---Chocolateboy
    tba
    Anti---92kg--01:09:50--Apr
    25---DTs
    tba
    Anti---90kg--01:14:00--Mar
    26---Snakehips
    tba
    Anti---76kg--01:29:00--Apr
    27---Jonathan-Ellis----tba
    Anti---72kg--3 months--Apr

    </font id="Courier New">*ToR(Type of Rider) - racer/club/fitness/touring/sportive

    www.blog.shavedlegs.co.uk


    The Merckx Diaries "On the fourth lap the Lactate Threshold Party started and some extraordinary gentlemen took centre stage"
  • naked_ollie
    naked_ollie Posts: 123
    Superb effort Shavedlegs - Can't imagine getting anywhere near that meself.

    Toks - you've done me a favour there putting me up in 8th - unfortunately here's the latest according to the database! [:)]

    <font face="Courier New">
    Pos--Name
    ToR*
    Dir----Wt----Time
    Mth

    1----Shavedlegs
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:50:04--May
    2----KingstonWheeler---all
    Anti---65kg--00:51:38--Apr
    3----halfords-WK
    tba
    Clock--74kg--00:53:48--May
    4----SeaBadger
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:54:08--May
    5----rjeffroy
    racer----Anti---72kg--00:54:12--Apr
    6----m4rk
    tba
    Anti---64kg--00:54:32--Apr
    7----SOW's
    tba
    Anti---84kg--00:54:33--Apr
    8----Superlightweight--tba
    Anti---82kg--00:54:40--Apr
    9----naked_ollie
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:55:01--Apr
    10---geetee
    racer----Anti---60kg--00:55:24--Apr
    11---demongrinder
    all
    Anti---85kg--00:56:10--Apr
    12---ASRitcheson
    all
    Anti---66kg--00:56:50--Apr
    13---Toks
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:57:00--Mar
    14---statts
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:58:13--May
    15---Kap
    fitness--Anti---76kg--00:58:40--May
    16---Brixtonfixed
    fitness--Anti---81kg--00:58:45--May
    17---Grazer
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:59:20--Apr
    18---GreenLake
    fitness--Anti---88kg--01:00:37--May
    19---RichA
    tba
    Anti---86kg--01:01:35--Apr
    20---Timeless
    tba
    Anti---75kg--01:02:24--Mar
    21---mingsta
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:04:00--May
    21---London-Red
    tba
    Anti---Fat---01:04:00--Mar
    22---toontra
    touring--Anti---74kg--01:06:38--Apr
    23---KMahony
    fitness--Anti---97kg--01:08:22--Apr
    24---Billios
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:09:32--May
    25---Chocolateboy
    tba
    Anti---92kg--01:09:50--Apr
    26---DTs
    tba
    Anti---90kg--01:14:00--Mar
    27---Snakehips
    tba
    Anti---76kg--01:29:00--Apr
    28---Jonathan-Ellis----tba
    Anti---72kg--3 months--Apr

    *Type of Rider - racer/club/fitness/touring
    </font id="Courier New">
  • jackpohare
    jackpohare Posts: 3
    Have just come across this great idea but I have some "Points of Order" I'd like clarifed before giving this ago and embarrasing myself on the list....

    My normal ride is 7 to Richmond (from Acton), once round and back again.

    Is there any "handicap factor" to account for the getting there ? (no harm in asking [:I]!)
    More seriously, do most folks drive there, take a break when you get there or are you all just very fit ?
  • Kap
    Kap Posts: 207
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jackpohare</i>

    Have just come across this great idea but I have some "Points of Order" I'd like clarifed before giving this ago and embarrasing myself on the list....

    My normal ride is 7 to Richmond (from Acton), once round and back again.

    Is there any "handicap factor" to account for the getting there ? (no harm in asking [:I]!)
    More seriously, do most folks drive there, take a break when you get there or are you all just very fit ?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    - initially somewhat surprisingly my fastest times have been when I've done 30km before I get there... starting fresh the first lap is normally the slowest ...getting the heart rate up to 80% before kickoff has major benefits even if u feel fcuked ..in my humble opinion. - have u seen them ripping sweat before the TDF prologue ?

    I've got a granny and I ain't afraid to use her !

    ex-Virgin Etapper - www.clicktastic.com
    I\'ve got a granny and I ain\'t afraid to use her !

    ex-Virgin Etapper - www.clicktastic.com
  • GreenLake
    GreenLake Posts: 80
    I ride in from Ealing and spin out the cobwebs before starting. I don't think it's a disadvantage...
  • Brixtonfixed
    Brixtonfixed Posts: 127
    Agree with Kap and Greenlake -- a few ks before you get there is a great start. I ride from Brixton and arrive feeling nicely warmed up. Plus there's that sweet moment of relief when you peel off traffic-clogged roads and into the relative serenity of the park. Driving there is a nightmare, IMO, on account of the south circ/A3 traffic etc.
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    dear all Richmond Parkers,

    please be gentle with me ,will be coming down on Saturday for the first time, and try and attempt 3 laps !!!
    now's your chance to get your own back on us london black cab drivers[:(]

    1.what is the dress code for Richmond Park[:)]
    1a.is there a code of conduct [:)][?]
    2.will be coming in to Roehampton Gate is there plenty of parking(i aint silly enough to cycle all the way from Borehamwood)
    3.just how hilly is it[:0][B)][?]




    i'd rather have a bottle in front of me,than a frontal lobotomy

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • Brixtonfixed
    Brixtonfixed Posts: 127
    urrrrrrs -- here's my quick take on your Qs: I'm sure other regulars will be able to fill in anything I've missed:

    Dress code -- whatever you feel comfortable cycling in
    Code of conduct -- seems to me to be: enjoy, be friendly, don't wheelsuck without prior arrangement
    Parking -- yes, big car park just to the left of Roehampton gate, fills up quickly
    Hilly -- a bit. Go anti-clockwise for the easiest lap: this also means you get round the three small roundabouts easier. There is a long (but mostly not steep) drag up from Roehampton to Richmond Gate, then it's gently downhill/rolling to Kingston Gate, then a short sharp uphill followed by a mainly flat section then a steep drop down to Robin Hood Gate, then fairly flat back to Roehampton. About 10k round (I forget the exact figure).

    Enjoy! Saturday morning is definitely a good time to take in the road-cycling atmosphere at RP -- the earlier the better to avoid too much car traffic.
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    BF,
    just realised i asked some of these questions a few weeks ago doh !!!!! thanks anyway
    p.s no chance of me wheel sucking?drafting etc [:D],19stone bloke dont think so !!!
    i most probably (if i wake up early enough ) get there for 7am as i dont want to frighten anyone with the sight of me in my Discovery shorts[:D][8D][:p][;)][:o)][:(][:0][:0][:0]





    i'd rather have a bottle in front of me,than a frontal lobotomy

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • Brixtonfixed
    Brixtonfixed Posts: 127
    Not to worry, always happy to procrastinate on C+ when I should be working.

    It's not my usual RP time, but you can be assured of plenty of roadie company on Saturday mornings at this time of year!
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    normally have mondays as my day off so if your ever around for a ride at not break neck speed[:)] and are up for showing someone some new tricks give us a shout.

    A pint of whatever would be the prize

    i'd rather have a bottle in front of me,than a frontal lobotomy

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • Brixtonfixed
    Brixtonfixed Posts: 127
    One of those nice evenings yesterday where you don't plan on going for it, but then the first lap pans out OK, so you push it a bit on the second, and then finish the third in a banzai-mad desperate sprint to the line in order to crack your PB.

    So I shaved another 25 seconds off, getting round 3 laps anti in 58:20. Still on fixed, and hoping that the long-awaited summer bike will give the times more of a boost...
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    wish me luck folks ,gonna see how i get on tomorrow morning,if you some big guy on a tri-cross be gentle !!!!!!!! shall attempt to be there from 7am ish

    i'd rather have a bottle in front of me,than a frontal lobotomy

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • Killed myself this morning and got 54.09. Anti-clock. Sorry dunno how u guys update the whole list, hopefully someone will do it soon.


    Used my Carbones and Im sure they make me ride faster, just do do them justice.

    "People setting the pace too fast on the front are abused to slow down. Riders that do not share the work are abused. Riders that need abuse get abused and the abuse is done in every language so they get the message"
  • Naz
    Naz Posts: 353
    Nice one Demon, top effort. Maybe I will sneak in there with my TT bike at some point!

    Naz

    www.kingstonwheelers.co.uk
  • First time worth posting, have come in from 1hr 7 in April.

    ?---markpbeaumont----fitness
    Anti---78kg--58.34--May
  • currieinahurry
    currieinahurry Posts: 2,695
    well done demon that is good!! guess this means tomoro you will be complaining about how sore your legs are as i kick your ass!
    tikka

    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
  • Kap
    Kap Posts: 207
    - did 10 laps in 3.5 hrs this morning .. more mentally demanding than anything elses... but could not be arsed fighting with the bank hol traffic on the open road.. anyone else done laps of similar stupidity ?

    I've got a granny and I ain't afraid to use her !

    ex-Virgin Etapper - www.clicktastic.com
    I\'ve got a granny and I ain\'t afraid to use her !

    ex-Virgin Etapper - www.clicktastic.com
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    i went there this morning for the first time,anticlockwise like the majority and 3 laps and guess what my time was......



































    46mins and 19seconds weighing in at 2.47 tonnes[:)][:0][:0][:0] quite impressive eh !!!!!!

    admitally i was in my taxi[:)]

    nah, seriously ,did my 4 laps of regents park instead,then drove down to RP ,as next week, its the real thing !!! and wanted to see it for myself, what i am letting myself in for

    i'll tell you what from what i saw it was quite impressive seeing some of you guys overtaking a line of half a dozen or so cars !!!!![:0].either your on drugs or i'm doing something wrong !!!!!


    here's to next saturday !!!


    i'd rather have a bottle in front of me,than a frontal lobotomy

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • naked_ollie
    naked_ollie Posts: 123
    Had a go in the wet today on the fixer - 58:33 Anti. Brixtonfixed you can sleep soundly - looks like you're still the fixie champ!

    Demon, MarkP and BF stay tuned for new classification on Tues.
  • Kap
    Kap Posts: 207
    46mins and 19seconds weighing in at 2.47 tonnes quite impressive eh !!!!!!

    admitally i was in my taxi


    :D:D:D

    I've got a granny and I ain't afraid to use her !

    ex-Virgin Etapper - www.clicktastic.com
    I\'ve got a granny and I ain\'t afraid to use her !

    ex-Virgin Etapper - www.clicktastic.com
  • Brixtonfixed
    Brixtonfixed Posts: 127
    Ollie -- chapeau to you for venturing out at all yesterday, reckon that must give you at least a 30-second handicap! I took one look at the weather on Sunday morning and decided that sleep was preferable to the Surrey Hills... and it's not often that happens.
  • currieinahurry
    currieinahurry Posts: 2,695
    agree with the above!
    tikka

    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
  • naked_ollie
    naked_ollie Posts: 123
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Brixtonfixed</i>

    Ollie -- chapeau to you for venturing out at all yesterday, reckon that must give you at least a 30-second handicap! I took one look at the weather on Sunday morning and decided that sleep was preferable to the Surrey Hills... and it's not often that happens.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Yeah - happily the only spare time I had coincided with a reasonable lull in the otherwise dismal weather! Wasn't much wind to speak of and once out it was surprisingly enjoyable. Ought to point out this was iPod assisted - needed something for inspiration...

    Here's latest classification:

    <font face="Courier New">
    Pos--Name
    ToR*
    Dir----Wt----Time
    Mth

    1----Shavedlegs
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:50:04--May
    2----KingstonWheeler---all
    Anti---65kg--00:51:38--Apr
    3----halfords-WK
    tba
    Clock--74kg--00:53:48--May
    4----SeaBadger
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:54:08--May
    5----demongrinder
    all
    Anti---85kg--00:54:09--Apr
    6----rjeffroy
    racer----Anti---72kg--00:54:12--Apr
    7----m4rk
    tba
    Anti---64kg--00:54:32--Apr
    8----SOW's
    tba
    Anti---84kg--00:54:33--Apr
    9----Superlightweight--tba
    Anti---82kg--00:54:40--Apr
    10---naked_ollie
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:55:01--Apr
    11---geetee
    racer----Anti---60kg--00:55:24--Apr
    12---ASRitcheson
    all
    Anti---66kg--00:56:50--Apr
    13---Toks
    racer----Anti---70kg--00:57:00--Mar
    14---statts
    fitness--Anti---75kg--00:58:13--May
    15---Brixtonfixed
    fitness--Anti---81kg--00:58:20--May
    16---markpbeaumont
    fitness--Anti---78kg--00:58:34--May
    17---Kap
    fitness--Anti---76kg--00:58:40--May
    18---Grazer
    tba
    Anti---80kg--00:59:20--Apr
    19---GreenLake
    fitness--Anti---88kg--01:00:37--May
    20---RichA
    tba
    Anti---86kg--01:01:35--Apr
    21---Timeless
    tba
    Anti---75kg--01:02:24--Mar
    22---mingsta
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:04:00--May
    22---London-Red
    tba
    Anti---Fat---01:04:00--Mar
    23---toontra
    touring--Anti---74kg--01:06:38--Apr
    24---KMahony
    fitness--Anti---97kg--01:08:22--Apr
    25---Billios
    tba
    Anti---tba---01:09:32--May
    26---Chocolateboy
    tba
    Anti---92kg--01:09:50--Apr
    27---DTs
    tba
    Anti---90kg--01:14:00--Mar
    28---Snakehips
    tba
    Anti---76kg--01:29:00--Apr
    29---Jonathan-Ellis----tba
    Anti---72kg--3 months--Apr

    *Type of Rider - racer/club/fitness/touring
    </font id="Courier New">
  • Brixtonfixed
    Brixtonfixed Posts: 127
    Funny you should mention the iPod, Ollie. It's something I've not done before but I spent an agreeable hour yesterday evening compiling an RP-specific playlist in advance of today's planned 5+lapper : Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, bit of disco... anything that might inspire a decent cadence. Be interesting to see whether it makes a difference!

    There's probably a whole 'nother thread there on which tunes get you round the park fastest, but I won't start it now...