Madeline: Should her parents have left her

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

Do you have figures to say the "increase" is crap or otherwise? Matt, I'd be interested to hear as to why it's crap?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have no figures to counter the argument that there are more paedophiles now than there used to be, no. I also have no figures with which to disprove a hypothesis that the development of the telescope has increased the amount of celestial entities, though I suspect the two theories are based on similar logic.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Why would not doing such things improve the 3 year old anyway?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll be honest. I don't know. I'm not much of an authority on child psychology and I'm a little out of touch with the only person I know who is.
I what way would leaving a 3 year old and her two two year old siblings in a room in the evening be beneficial?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by UH DH

The important question here however, is how much do you think I could sell, hypothetically that is, a small child? I have (still hypothetically) several buyers from Bangkok interested.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you want to be a tw[url][/url]at, do it in the sandbox.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If they were in Engalnd when it happened, then I would say yes, they should be prosecuted, as it IS neglect and illeagal ( I believe) to leave minors unacompanied under ther age of 10.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If they are prosecuted, who benefits and in what way?
I'm being serious. I can see no reason on earth to prosecute them, and would dearly like to understand why everyone seems to want to do it.

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Mike Skinner · May 2007

nothing personal against them, but if the law says to prosecute parents for negligence, why should they be exempt because the media loves them.

If there is nothing in the law (and i honestly ddon't know) that stops parents leaving their children without care, then they shouldn't be prosecuted. But i thought there was.

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TE · May 2007

My thoughts, in general are:
That the parents are absolutly mindless for leaving 3 babies, not small children, but BABIES, only just verging on toddler age, by themselves while they go out (contrary to what has been said in the media).
Apart from the fact that they could have been abducted, 2/3/4 year olds are extremely curious people, meaning that they could have caused a fire/electricuted themselves, anything. Im not a parent but common sense says that you just dont do it!

However, i still believe that they SHOULDNT be prosecuted, as id imagine that losing a child in these circumstances would be far far worse than any jail sentence, fine, or punishment.

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Mike Skinner · May 2007

my mother noticed earlier by the way (and coming from a mothers point of view) that recently, the couple have been seen a lot on TV and in the papers, doing interviews, speaking to police, etc etc. But almost all of these without their other two babies present.

Now while I accept that the obvious answer to this is that you wouldn't subject your babies to that much attention, my Ma made the point that if it were here that had lost 1 kid, she wouldn't let the other 2 out of her sight for even a moment. You're protective maternal instincts would kick in like crazy.

does seem a little odd after having just lost a child, to leave the other 2 with child-minders/police/who-ever

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Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

nothing personal against them, but if the law says to prosecute parents for negligence, why should they be exempt because the media loves them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Because I don't believe in prosecution without benefit.

There is no point keeping them out of society, no more can be done to punish or deter them from reoffence, and it's not likely that much need be done to make it common knowledge that leaving kids on their own a bad thing.

If the media loved them, they'd leave them well alone, surely?

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ElephantMan · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S

If the media loved them, they'd leave them well alone, surely?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The media don't love them as people Avi, they love them because they are a very easy story to sell. You know that

roryf · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S

I have no figures to counter the argument that there are more paedophiles now than there used to be, no. I also have no figures with which to disprove a hypothesis that the development of the telescope has increased the amount of celestial entities, though I suspect the two theories are based on similar logic.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
With their being no figures from more than one reliable source, it wouldn't be fair to make a decision either way.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
I what way would leaving a 3 year old and her two two year old siblings in a room in the evening be beneficial?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Again, I've made the mistake of referring to general responsibility, when you mean't this individual case (which, after all, is what the thread is about).

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
If they are prosecuted, who benefits and in what way?
I'm being serious. I can see no reason on earth to prosecute them, and would dearly like to understand why everyone seems to want to do it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think, in this instance, prosecution is not the answer. But generally with these sorts of things, prosecution should be carried out, with it being the law. Another reason why it should be carried out is to encourage adequate care and attention to children. Without this, there could be losses of children all over the place, and many easy targets for paedophiles and kidnappers (although, from my experience these risks are overrated, but then again I live in the country).

Mike Skinner · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

nothing personal against them, but if the law says to prosecute parents for negligence, why should they be exempt because the media loves them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is no point keeping them out of society, no more can be done to punish or deter them from reoffence, and it's not likely that much need be done to make it common knowledge that leaving kids on their own a bad thing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

but you could argue that a man who kills his wife in a blind rage when he finds her in bed with his brother will never do that again. There-fore he should not be punished (i appreciate the obvious differences, just a simily).

The point being that a law is a law, and whether or not they are appropriate in each case doesn't particularily matter, with the way our legal system works.

I'm not saying that is correct, as there are obvious problems with people exploiting laws that may not be perfectly worded and such forth, but the fact of the matter is that we have a legal system, and as such we abide by it. Even though not every law is always perfect. Who gets the right to pick and choose?

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Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

but you could argue that a man who kills his wife in a blind rage when he finds her in bed with his brother will never do that again. There-fore he should not be punished (i appreciate the obvious differences, just a simily).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But the obvious differences are rather large.
Madeline's parents in this instance didn't actively do anything to cause the kidnapping of their daughter, they failed to do something that might have stopped it. Which, given that it's not an expected danger, i think is quite understandable.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Even though not every law is always perfect. Who gets the right to pick and choose?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, the judges do. And if I was under the impression that any of them were capable of making a reasoned judgement based on common sense, I'd not be so opposed to the idea of prosecution.
But I'd still think it'd be a waste of money, for all they would find is that there is no need to do any more than acknowledge that the parents did something wrong, and that they were punished by its consequences enough to negate the effect of anything the state could impose on them.

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Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TE

Apart from the fact that they could have been abducted, 2/3/4 year olds are extremely curious people, meaning that they could have caused a fire/electricuted themselves, anything.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In their sleep?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

I think, in this instance, prosecution is not the answer. But generally with these sorts of things, prosecution should be carried out, with it being the law. Another reason why it should be carried out is to encourage adequate care and attention to children. Without this, there could be losses of children all over the place,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If that genuinely is the case, prosecuting this couple comes nowhere near to a solution.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
and many easy targets for paedophiles and kidnappers (although, from my experience these risks are overrated, but then again I live in the country).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I live in London and reckon it's overrated.
I think the internet has made it easier for them to do what they do, and for them to be traced, so we've found more. Hence my telescope comment.
It's also just a hot topic, so it's what people are interested in and scared of.

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roryf · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
In their sleep?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What if they wake up?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

I think, in this instance, prosecution is not the answer. But generally with these sorts of things, prosecution should be carried out, with it being the law. Another reason why it should be carried out is to encourage adequate care and attention to children. Without this, there could be losses of children all over the place,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If that genuinely is the case, prosecuting this couple comes nowhere near to a solution.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Read what I said.

Matt · May 2007

Out of interest, those who say they should be prosecuted, do you say this every time something bad happens to a child? If the child is killed in an accident of some kind whilst the parents weren't looking/nearby enough, is it still the parents fault?

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Chaparral

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
In their sleep?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What if they wake up?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

I think, in this instance, prosecution is not the answer. But generally with these sorts of things, prosecution should be carried out, with it being the law. Another reason why it should be carried out is to encourage adequate care and attention to children. Without this, there could be losses of children all over the place,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If that genuinely is the case, prosecuting this couple comes nowhere near to a solution.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Read what I said.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was only responding to, and only meant to quote, the last sentence of that bit:
"Another reason why it should be carried out is to encourage adequate care and attention to children. Without this, there could be losses of children all over the place,"
If it takes anything but human instinct to foster almost universal care and attention for children, then there is something very, very wrong.

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Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Matt

Out of interest, those who say they should be prosecuted, do you say this every time something bad happens to a child? If the child is killed in an accident of some kind whilst the parents weren't looking/nearby enough, is it still the parents fault?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nonono. If it's in this country, then it's the fault of the government.

They should have banned climbing frames over 4' tall by now anyway.

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JinjaNinja · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SexyFrank

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Matt
However I disagree with you that it's idiotic to leave them in there. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm genuinely amazed that people think that.
EDIT: Not because of hindsight, or what happened to Madeline, but I am genuinely amazed that people are willing to leave three babies on their own.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Heres the magic line for me.
"If they are in a place where you think them to be safe "

Think to be safe. You don't "think" to be safve when it comes to...

A ****ING 3 YEAR OLD LIFE.

DO YOU GET IT?

THEY ARE 3 YEARS OLD. THEY KNOW *NOTHING* ABOUT THE WORLD OR PEOPLE.
THE CHANCES ARE THIS CHILD IS BEING RAPED RIGHT NOW.

How many of us have had a bike nicked leaving it in a what you "think" is a safe palce???

What was done by the parents was completley inexusable. Manbey when you have a sprog of your own you might think better. Untill that day, don't look after you neice, nephew or ANYBODY under the age of looking after them selfs.

Once again.
Unatended 3 childern whos total age dosn't even amounbt to 8 years old.

In a hotel where they have absolutly no idea who has access to the room. Where *IF* they are sitting out side, can only see one entrance/exit

THE HOLET HAD CHILD MINDING FACILITYS

Don't any one of you try and say that the parents were not to blame in any way. NO they shoulden't have to keep an eye on there kids ALL the time, BUT THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN!!!
THIS IS THE KIND OF SHIT THAT HAPPEND EVERY old mans stamp collectionING DAY IN WORSE OF COUNTRIES AND NO ONE BATS AN EYE LID TOO.

And, for the record, I would happily say this, face to face, one at a time or both together, to the parents. Atleast then they might not old mans stamp collection it up with there remainding 2 kids.

I'm gonna have to stop here, I think a blood vessele is about to go in my temples. How ever If you do decide to counter this post, Please for the love of any thing you hold sacred, go an have you nuts choped off now, YOU ARE NOT FIT TO BE INCHARGE OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

RANT OVER.

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

scgt · May 2007

'THE CHANCES ARE THIS CHILD IS BEING RAPED RIGHT NOW.'

perhaps not needed?
anyway, if maddie had died of say an electrocution in the room by playing with a plug socket the papers would be saying that they are awful parents. i fail to see how her being abducted makes it any different. in both cases gross negligence has lead to the death/loss of a child. i hope that maddie is returned, but i think that is incredibly unlikely. i also think that the parents will be punished enough knowing it is their fault alone that their daughter has died, but laws are laws

JinjaNinja · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by scgt

'THE CHANCES ARE THIS CHILD IS BEING RAPED RIGHT NOW.'

perhaps not needed?
anyway, if maddie had died of say an electrocution in the room by playing with a plug socket the papers would be saying that they are awful parents. i fail to see how her being abducted makes it any different. in both cases gross negligence has lead to the death/loss of a child. i hope that maddie is returned, but i think that is incredibly unlikely. i also think that the parents will be punished enough knowing it is their fault alone that their daughter has died, but laws are laws
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Umm, well why not? everyone seems happy to make an 11 page or so long topic about it whilst avoiding what might be. OMG!!! THE TRUTH.

If your going to talk about it at all you might as well be in for the long haul, No namby pansie-ing about here.

<hr noshade size="1">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JinjaNinja

Heres the magic line for me.
"If they are in a place where you think them to be safe "

Think to be safe. You don't "think" to be safve when it comes to...

A ****ING 3 YEAR OLD LIFE.

DO YOU GET IT?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So what do you do? There is no way to /ensure/ a place is safe.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
THEY ARE 3 YEARS OLD. THEY KNOW *NOTHING* ABOUT THE WORLD OR PEOPLE.
THE CHANCES ARE THIS CHILD IS BEING RAPED RIGHT NOW.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Y'know, it's doing things like that that make you look as if you're incapable of reasoned discussion.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
What was done by the parents was completley inexusable. Manbey when you have a sprog of your own you might think better. Untill that day, don't look after you neice, nephew or ANYBODY under the age of looking after them selfs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was left at about the age of three in a hotel room while my parents went to dinner somwhere. I slept through the event. It was fine.
I've looked after plenty of small children.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Once again.
Unatended 3 childern whos total age dosn't even amounbt to 8 years old.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It was a total age of six earlier...
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
In a hotel where they have absolutly no idea who has access to the room. Where *IF* they are sitting out side, can only see one entrance/exit
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is generally presumed that only you and the hotel staff have access to the hotel room. I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.
But, to be honest, I don't use hotels that often, so I may be very wrong. Is it usual for strangers to have access to hotel rooms?
And would you really trust the creche services of a hotel that is willing to let weirdos in your room?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
THE HOLET HAD CHILD MINDING FACILITYS
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Erm. Wow. I presume the hotel did, too, and that your keyboard has a working caps lock button. If I'm correct on the latter, please stop being such a tw[url][/url]at.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Don't any one of you try and say that the parents were not to blame in any way. NO they shoulden't have to keep an eye on there kids ALL the time, BUT THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN!!!
THIS IS THE KIND OF SHIT THAT HAPPEND EVERY old mans stamp collectionING DAY IN WORSE OF COUNTRIES AND NO ONE BATS AN EYE LID TOO. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This was in portugal, though, not a 'worse of[f] country'.
Though, please, share your wisdom with us. In which countries is it expected that someone will break into your room and steal your children? Have the foreign office issued relevant travellers advice?
I don't think anyone's trying to say that the parent's were not at all to blame. I'm just making what I think is a valid point: the kidnapper had far more to do with her dissapearance than the parents.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I'm gonna have to stop here, I think a blood vessele is about to go in my temples. How ever If you do decide to counter this post, Please for the love of any thing you hold sacred, go an have you nuts choped off now, YOU ARE NOT FIT TO BE INCHARGE OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, you're correct. My parents also were obviously not fit to bring me or any of my brothers up. Just as well you've got no say in who is and isnt allowed to look after children, isn't it?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by scgt

anyway, if maddie had died of say an electrocution in the room by playing with a plug socket the papers would be saying that they are awful parents. i fail to see how her being abducted makes it any different.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because in the first instance the parent's negligence lead to the presence of an obvious danger which killed the child.
In the second instance, the parent's negligence lead to the presence of a danger obvious only to a few members of this forum, which allowed someone else to kill the child.

In the first instance, I can see how the parents would be entirely to blame. In the second I can't.

And, seriously, couldn't you have just read the last few times that was posted?

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Tom · May 2007

meh, why they didnt use the nanny service i dont know.

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Big Red S · May 2007

Er, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious: they didn't think they'd need to.

Seriously, when was the last time a child was stolen from a hotel room or holiday apartment?

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digdug · May 2007

Through reading less than 3 pages, there seems to be a lot of opinions that there parents should be prosecuted. Personally I don't think so, I don't believe there was anything wrong with leaving their children unattended, seeing as where they were was considered by their parents as a safe and confortable environment. It was simply bad luck that this area allowed a kidnapper to get into the room and abduuct her. Wouldn't that be the hotels fault for inadequete security measures? Thats besides the point, a lot of you are also saying that you would "NEVER" leave your children alone in a hotel room, which for some may be true, but Im guessing that a lot of you don't even have children. It's very easy to say such things when you've never experienced it. I'm not saying I have, being only 16, but I can imagine that now and then, parents will want some relief to enjoy there holiday, and have a drink, or go to the restaurant, or do whatever there parents were doing. By leaving there children in a hotel room that only the hotel and they, should have a key to, makes them criminals? I think not...

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skamanfrank

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roryf · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
If it takes anything but human instinct to foster almost universal care and attention for children, then there is something very, very wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, not all parents feel the same way. Some seem to manage without showing the same care and attention to their children. It's these types of people that the law needs to target and make an example of.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
So what do you do? There is no way to /ensure/ a place is safe.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You do everything (reasonable) in your power to make that place as safe as possible. If that includes hiring a childminder, or making use of childcare facilities, then that ought to be done.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
It was a total age of six earlier...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Does it really matter? We've established repeatedly that they were young children.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
It is generally presumed that only you and the hotel staff have access to the hotel room. I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.
But, to be honest, I don't use hotels that often, so I may be very wrong. Is it usual for strangers to have access to hotel rooms?
And would you really trust the creche services of a hotel that is willing to let weirdos in your room?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm entirely uninformed here - was the room locked? If not, then the criminal could have very easily gained access to the room. He could have gained access to the room even if it was locked. It's not as if hotels go checking everybody who walks in and out through the front door, that would be very impractical.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DigDug
It was simply bad luck that this area allowed a kidnapper to get into the room and abduuct her. Wouldn't that be the hotels fault for inadequete security measures?
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No, not really entirely the hotels fault at all. As stated, it's not really practical for hotel staff to screen everybody entering and leaving a hotel.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DigDug
I can imagine that now and then, parents will want some relief to enjoy there holiday, and have a drink, or go to the restaurant, or do whatever there parents were doing.
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Obviously. That's fine. But it's not a great deal of effort to put very young children into childcare for a few hours, or hire a babysitter.

Red Lemon · May 2007

CBA reading all the pages, but I'm amused to see Avi turning in another stunning post dissection performance.

Personally, I don't think the parents should be prosecuted. If what they did was criminal, then I don't see how you could come up with a worse punishment than they're already experiencing. I don't see that a jail sentence would achieve anything.

clarkson · May 2007

the total age was 7, but anyway, i dont think the parents should be prosecuted for leaving them in what is usually a safe place. its happened before and will probably happen again.

A lot of child kidnappings happen in Africa, Uganda or Ethiopia I think, but that is so they can become freedom fighter or something. either way, the press dont mention that.

I presume JinjaNinja is a parent? therefore justifying his rant?

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Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
So what do you do? There is no way to /ensure/ a place is safe.
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You do everything (reasonable) in your power to make that place as safe as possible. If that includes hiring a childminder, or making use of childcare facilities, then that ought to be done.
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Or, if you genuinely believe that the room they're already asleep in is safe, you leave them there.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S
It is generally presumed that only you and the hotel staff have access to the hotel room. I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.
But, to be honest, I don't use hotels that often, so I may be very wrong. Is it usual for strangers to have access to hotel rooms?
And would you really trust the creche services of a hotel that is willing to let weirdos in your room?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm entirely uninformed here - was the room locked? If not, then the criminal could have very easily gained access to the room. He could have gained access to the room even if it was locked. It's not as if hotels go checking everybody who walks in and out through the front door, that would be very impractical.
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Yes, it was locked.
I just cant get my head round the idea that it being a holiday home or hotel means it was less secure than a house.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DigDug
It was simply bad luck that this area allowed a kidnapper to get into the room and abduuct her. Wouldn't that be the hotels fault for inadequete security measures?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, not really entirely the hotels fault at all. As stated, it's not really practical for hotel staff to screen everybody entering and leaving a hotel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, but I'd suggest that the fault that lies with the parents is far closer to that of the hotel than that of the kidnapper.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DigDug
I can imagine that now and then, parents will want some relief to enjoy there holiday, and have a drink, or go to the restaurant, or do whatever there parents were doing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Obviously. That's fine. But it's not a great deal of effort to put very young children into childcare for a few hours, or hire a babysitter.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No. It's not that much effort.
But can you not see that before she was kidnapped, without the benefit of hindsight, they didn't think they needed it? You don't really believe that the parents thought they needed a babysitter but didn't get one anyway?

<hr noshade size="1">

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JinjaNinja · May 2007

I think thats the problem most of us have, the parents didn't feel the need for a childminder. If I was the parents, I would have.
As for the secureity issue, Theres a fairly good chance the the kidnapper knocked on the door. Little girl answers the door and nothing else she can do.
OR the child could have woken up, scared the mummy and daddy arn't anywhere to be seen, and goes to look for them out side the hotel door. At least if that was at home she would be around all the neighbours who would probably know the child and go get if found wondering about by herself.

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
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digdug · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JinjaNinja

I think thats the problem most of us have, the parents didn't feel the need for a childminder. If I was the parents, I would have.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As I've already said, it's very easy to say that when you don't have children (Im assuming, apologies if wrong ).
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JinjaNinja
As for the secureity issue, Theres a fairly good chance the the kidnapper knocked on the door. Little girl answers the door and nothing else she can do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So the kidnapper must have known that she was in there alone, so has been stalking them? Surely that would be noticed by someone. Or maybe not, I don't know.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JinjaNinja
OR the child could have woken up, scared the mummy and daddy arn't anywhere to be seen, and goes to look for them out side the hotel door. At least if that was at home she would be around all the neighbours who would probably know the child and go get if found wondering about by herself.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Im sure hotel staff would notice a young child walking around on her own with a scared/worried look on their face.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skamanfrank

I remember when I discovered my first pube.
I got all embarrassed and cut it off
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</center>
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DJIP · May 2007

I don't think the parents should be prosecuted.

Although I really can't find justification in leaving children in a room by themselves while you went to eat. I wouldn't feel safe nipping down the end of the road if I knew little kids were in my house alone, even if they were sleeping. Kids under 10 in _my_ opinion should never be left alone, God forbid you might actually have to make a bit of effort to make sure there is someone always around them *rolls eyes*

I know that I'm not going to take me (future) kids to Portugal after all this "Peadofile Capital of the World" thing they keep mentioning on GMTV.

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whyamihere · May 2007

Please don't believe everything you hear on GMTV as truth...

In fact, I'd recommend checking before you believe anything on there.

DJIP · May 2007

I'm only saying that because they had this lady who ran this charity for children all over the world and she saw some bad things while there.

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Madeline: Should her parents have left her

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