Madeline: Should her parents have left her

ElephantMan · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Glyn

They don't need minding, anyway, they're asleep. And you'll be checking on them regularly.
More regularly, in fact, than you probably would if they were asleep in your own home.
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Erm, I think it's fairly safe to say they DID need minding now is it not? And whilst you might not walk into the same room as them whilst your in the house, you don't need to. You can hear them crying, if they wake up and walk into the lounge to find you you'll be there, and most importantly, you are far more likely to notice someone clambering in through the window.

Anonymous · May 2007

Erm I didnt post that, BRS did.

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Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SexyFrank

Erm, I think it's fairly safe to say they DID need minding now is it not?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh yes. And it's fairly safe to say that America shouldn't have gone into Vietnam, it was too late to launch Operation Barbarossa, and Columbia was unsafe.

Hindsight's lovely, isn't it?

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ElephantMan · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Glyn

Erm I didnt post that, BRS did.
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Sorry, got it wrong when I was taking out the extra quote marks!

AVI: Yes we can all say that in hindsight, but I don't see why they should have taken the risk anyway.

Big Red S · May 2007

Because they didn't expect someone to break in and steal their child?

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JinjaNinja · May 2007

You don't expect someone to steal your car, you still lock it/take what ever precautions possible.
You don't expect someone to brake into your house, You still lock the doors shut the windows and set an alarm.

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
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Big Red S · May 2007

OK, let me rephrase that, then.

"because they didn't think anyone would break in and steal their child"

That any better?

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ElephantMan · May 2007

Not really no, what JN said still applies

Big Red S · May 2007

So why do you lock your doors then? To stop the furniture escaping?

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ElephantMan · May 2007

Erm excuse me?? I don't think anyone will break into my house if I leave the doors unlocked, but I still lock them doors because there is a risk that they might. Same goes for Madeline.

TBH Avi, I've told you why I think your opinion is "wrong" but it is all just opinion after all.

JinjaNinja · May 2007

BRS might lose one here!
(I know he just likes to argue other/difficults points, same as me)

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

clarkson · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Glyn

Which is true, there is never really an excuse for leaving a child alone.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by clarkson

matt, resoponsibility does have something to do with it.
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Yes. Responsibility of the parents does have something to do with it. Not of the children. Can you please either show us the results of a study which demonstrated that three year olds in general can gain from being left to babysit their two younger siblings, or stop with the 'it improves their self worth' crap?

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there are no studies on children of 3 on responsibility, but have a look at this link http://www.smith.edu/fcceas/curriculum/goforth.htm
and you can read that giving someone responsibility from an early age improves and help them develop, allowing them to earn respect for their surroundings. its only a short paragraph near the bottom, but its there.
sometimes classical conditioning is used to help reinforce this in a child, whereby they are given a treat for doing somethuing right/being responsible, as they associate the treat with this behaviour, they are more likely to do it again.

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JinjaNinja · May 2007

Giving them resposibility of 2 human lives at 3 years old.

Are you actually on glue?

Said it before but when was the last time a lot of you meet a 3 year old.

<hr noshade size="1">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

clarkson · May 2007

if you read my previous comments, you may notice that i said that i didnt agree that what they did was right.
the above quote was proving to BRS that studies have proven/shown that giving someone responsibility from an early age helps them to develop and give them more respect in the future.

I said hit the brakes not the tree!!
My GT
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1315543/

JinjaNinja · May 2007

ofcourse, but those types of "resposibilitys" are more like taking their diry place to the sink.

Differnt kettle of fish completely, no child should have REAL responsibilitys at that age.

<hr noshade size="1">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NeillyB

I used some blueberry flavoured one we got from the free clinic once

NEVER AGAIN

My penis was blue for 3 days
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

clarkson · May 2007

yes i totally agree, they sohuld not be given tghose responsibility until at least secondary school age. those types of responsibility are more like looking after a plant or something, or made to look like they're responsible for something when the paretn is supervising all the time. well, its like that in the studies at least, obviously not in real life!

I said hit the brakes not the tree!!
My GT
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1315543/

Stuff · May 2007

The area is apparently renowned for Peadophile activity and the local authority makes no attempt to register the sex offenders that are present in the area. The parents probably wouldnt have known this information but its apparently quite common knowledge to our Police who monitor these things. Ive read a few things here and there about it being a holiday for certain groups for these very reasons.
It is a terrible thing that has happened and the family will never ever forget. But Ive met a few 3 year olds recently and I wouldnt leave them alone for 5 mins let alone half an hour. Forget the abduction what if there had been a fire? Fire spreads fast and smoke kills young lungs quickly. The situation could have been alot worse. Imagine a 3 year old waking up just after mum/dad had nipped off for another half an hour. Half an hour at work can seem like a long time but to a child who is scared it is even longer.
If you had 10 million quid in a briefcase would you leave it anywhere on its own? Maybe in a safe whilst you went out for your meal but kids dont fit in safes and surely demand a certain amount more care than the money

Big Red S is my intellectual superior

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by clarkson

if you read my previous comments, you may notice that i said that i didnt agree that what they did was right.
the above quote was proving to BRS that studies have proven/shown that giving someone responsibility from an early age helps them to develop and give them more respect in the future.
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Yes, and that finding is about as relevant as demonstrating that atoms are made of a nucleus and orbiting electrons.

So, can you please stop saying it? No-one's questioning your allegedly boundless knowledge of child psychology (well, not vocally, anyway).

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Matt · May 2007

Avi, I've given up on this topic a long time ago. I keep hearing the same crap over and over about how given a 3 year old some responsibility will make them a better person.

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Big Red S · May 2007

Oh yeah. There's little scope for any objectivity, though. It's a very opinion-based subject, and isn't helped by the fact that few of us are parents, and most aren't stupid enough to fall for the 'increace in paedophilia' crap.

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roryf · May 2007

increase* [:)]

Do you have figures to say the "increase" is crap or otherwise? Matt, I'd be interested to hear as to why it's crap? Why would not doing such things improve the 3 year old anyway?

(Granted, the character change is probably pretty minimal at that age.)

Matt · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roryf

increase* [:)]

Do you have figures to say the "increase" is crap or otherwise? Matt, I'd be interested to hear as to why it's crap? Why would not doing such things improve the 3 year old anyway?

(Granted, the character change is probably pretty minimal at that age.)
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Because it's completely irrelevant to the topic? In case you'd forgotten, we're actually discussing Alex's frankly ridiculous idea of prosecuting the parents for leaving the kids in the room, not how we can make our children grow up into better people. If you'd like to discuss that though, I'd be happy to make another topic for you.

(Ok, so I kinda lied about giving up on the topic)

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Chaparral

roryf · May 2007

Yes okay it's irrelevant to the topic, but this thread has gone the same as many in OT, into a debate that is going round in circles, and has become unrelated to the first page. We all still stay in and add our views though.

It's irrelevant to the topic, but that doesn't automatically make it "crap". Or atleast, it shouldn't surely!

Matt · May 2007

I suppose that is why it's called Off Topic. Because all of the threads go off on some tangent...

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UH DH · May 2007

The important question here however, is how much do you think I could sell, hypothetically that is, a small child? I have (still hypothetically) several buyers from Bangkok interested.

QUERTY QUERTY QUERTY

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JinjaNinja

"I cant read and I cant spell doo dah, doo dah"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

TE · May 2007

Not funny Tavy, in jest in the Sandbox maybe, but not in a serious off topic thread.

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Super Nuts4fsr · May 2007

Just seen this. Not read all 10 pages.... here goes, sorry if I repeat anything

As a parent of 2 children, I say that they should NOT have left their children unattened. They are both supposed to be inteligent educated people. (Has been noted common sense is inversley proportional to inteligence BTW.....)

There have been many 'home alone' prosecutions in this country. They were NOT in the UK, but Portugal. It is up to the legal system in that country to determine if they should or should not be prosecuted.

If they were in Engalnd when it happened, then I would say yes, they should be prosecuted, as it IS neglect and illeagal ( I believe) to leave minors unacompanied under ther age of 10.

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Mike Skinner · May 2007

from following this topic, I'm not sure why Alex's initial statement is so 'rediculous'?

have we all not agreed the parents were at fault, and that it is frankly idiotic to leave a child of that age (children of tha age and younger in fact) alone in a foreign country?

If we have all agreed on that, and if we understand that there are laws in place to protect children from irrisponsible parents, why shouldn't they be prosicuted?

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Matt · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

from following this topic, I'm not sure why Alex's initial statement is so 'rediculous'?

have we all not agreed the parents were at fault, and that it is frankly idiotic to leave a child of that age (children of tha age and younger in fact) alone in a foreign country?

If we have all agreed on that, and if we understand that there are laws in place to protect children from irrisponsible parents, why shouldn't they be prosicuted?

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<center>Old Vids</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think they're in enough pain already without the need to prosecute them. However I disagree with you that it's idiotic to leave them in there. If they are in a place where you think them to be safe then there shouldn't be the need to prosecute them. I would agree with you on the matter were they say left in a playground or something like that unsupervised, however a apartment is generally a safe place to leave them. And if they're lying in bed or whatever, most people would not think that someone is going to kidnap them whilst they go out a short distance away to for a meal.

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ElephantMan · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Matt
However I disagree with you that it's idiotic to leave them in there. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm genuinely amazed that people think that.
EDIT: Not because of hindsight, or what happened to Madeline, but I am genuinely amazed that people are willing to leave three babies on their own.

Madeline: Should her parents have left her

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