2024 Election thread

veronese68

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

The manifesto is being written by your crazy uncle on Facebook

By that I think it won't be popular in the Cake Stop bubble, but likely to be a vote winner overall.

Based on...?

Just a hunch. We can see how the polling goes when the policy comes out. The last lot of changes around the ICE ban date and related stuff seems to have closed the gap somewhat.

You must be looking at different polling. At best it has arrested the slide, but you really should check what he did on the ICE ban rather than what he said. It's a long way from the big change of direction it was sold as.

According to YouGov, Sunak has managed to cleverly attack an idea that most people support. Not sure that hunch is correct.

To be honest, it's a bit weird in Toryland, as it rather harks back to the post-war era, when most communities had a village or corner shop, a pub, a doctor and a candlestick maker within walking distance, and Tories seem to think that post-war pre-EU Britain was a golden era which should be rekindled. At least they've got the economy heading in that direction...

This is what I don't get, the type that seem to want to go back in time to when things were simpler want to keep out of town shopping centres and supermarkets so finishing the job of killing the high street.

pblakeney

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

That's my major (amongst many) problem's with Sunak, I don't think he does actually believe in anything, he strikes me as an empty vessel both morally and intellectually. I don't mean by he is unintelligent but rather, he has no actual desire to think critically for himself. He comes across as a Head Boy of a public school sixth form, not a Prime Minister.

Not disagreeing, but a twist on a similar theme. He strikes me as being clever enough to know people's expectations of him and doing just that, but no internal drive.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Rank 'em from best to worst, BoJo, Truss, Sunak.

BoJo, Sunak, May, Truss.

I'd need to think about Cameron. Most people would have him leading the pack, but he did a lot of bad stuff.

Cameron's legacy looks a lot worse than it did at the time.

Has the reverse Midas touch with most stuff.

Curious about the logic of May being worse than BoJo and Sunak - what's the thinking there?

Achieved nothing other than the Windrush scandal for which she allowed Amber Rudd to take the blame. Was terrible on the international scene. Called an election when she had a majority already and as a result the DUP won the lottery. Failed miserably with Brexit negotiations.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I would agree with that PB. As you suggest I think he knows how to play the game but has no interest in leading it, which for a Prime Minister is a complete waste of an opportunity few people will ever have.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Rank 'em from best to worst, BoJo, Truss, Sunak.

BoJo, Sunak, May, Truss.

I'd need to think about Cameron. Most people would have him leading the pack, but he did a lot of bad stuff.

Cameron's legacy looks a lot worse than it did at the time.

Has the reverse Midas touch with most stuff.

Curious about the logic of May being worse than BoJo and Sunak - what's the thinking there?

Achieved nothing other than the Windrush scandal for which she allowed Amber Rudd to take the blame. Was terrible on the international scene. Called an election when she had a majority already and as a result the DUP won the lottery. Failed miserably with Brexit negotiations.

Well when you put it like that....

briantrumpet

joeyhalloran said:

Yeah, Sunak doesn't come across as a man with conviction in his own ideas. Both he and Boris, to me, seem like they were after the position of becoming PM. Either to say they 'made it' to their chums or for power but not to help people or improve the country.

I still can't work out Sunak's motivation, given his enormous wealth and US Green Card. Is the 'being PM' badge worth all the associated grief & scrutiny?

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I still can't work out Sunak's motivation, given his enormous wealth and US Green Card. Is the 'being PM' badge worth all the associated grief & scrutiny?

I think it is, it seems as though becoming PM is seen as the ultimate status symbol; Sunak, Truss and Johnson all wanted it for the kudos and attention I think. None of them had any interest in policy building or governance.

verylonglegs

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still can't work out Sunak's motivation, given his enormous wealth and US Green Card. Is the 'being PM' badge worth all the associated grief & scrutiny?

I think it is, it seems as though becoming PM is seen as the ultimate status symbol; Sunak, Truss and Johnson all wanted it for the kudos and attention I think. None of them had any interest in policy building or governance.

I think Truss fervently believes in her policy, she hasn't stopped banging on about it.

kingstongraham

rick_chasey said:

Rank 'em from best to worst, BoJo, Truss, Sunak.

Truss (49 days), Sunak (342 days), Johnson (3 years).

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I think Truss fervently believes in her policy, she hasn't stopped banging on about it.

I will revise. None of them were interested in policy making that had any grounding in reality and wasn't utterly batsh!t

briantrumpet

verylonglegs said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still can't work out Sunak's motivation, given his enormous wealth and US Green Card. Is the 'being PM' badge worth all the associated grief & scrutiny?

I think it is, it seems as though becoming PM is seen as the ultimate status symbol; Sunak, Truss and Johnson all wanted it for the kudos and attention I think. None of them had any interest in policy building or governance.

I think Truss fervently believes in her policy, she hasn't stopped banging on about it.

Yes, I completely agree with this - I just can't understand why someone so utterly lacking in genuine intelligence was able to get a degree in PPE from Oxford and rise to the top. I can only assume she's got the ability to jump through academic hoops, but without an ounce of ability to apply those to real-life stuff. She reminds me of Philomena Cunk - sadly she's not merely a humorous fictional creation though.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Rank 'em from best to worst, BoJo, Truss, Sunak.

Sunak, Bojo, Truss.

Thanks Hobson.

You think Sunak is better than BoJo? Yikes.

He's achieving absolutely nothing, so that puts him ahead.

My view is BoJo was lazy and cynical populist who was in it jut for himself, whereas Sunak actually believes this sh!t.

I don't know what Sunak believes in, but all this anti Green Pro driving claptrap is straight out of a focus group. It is just about what will get votes, not what's best for the country.

Perhaps that's my answer.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Rank 'em from best to worst, BoJo, Truss, Sunak.

Sunak, Bojo, Truss.

Thanks Hobson.

You think Sunak is better than BoJo? Yikes.

He's achieving absolutely nothing, so that puts him ahead.

My view is BoJo was lazy and cynical populist who was in it jut for himself, whereas Sunak actually believes this sh!t.

I don't know what Sunak believes in, but all this anti Green Pro driving claptrap is straight out of a focus group. It is just about what will get votes, not what's best for the country.

Perhaps that's my answer.

His buzz sentence in the weekend interview with Kuenssberg was "The best tax cut that I can deliver for the British people is to halve inflation."

Strong contender for last place with Truss.

Johnson was and is all of the things you list but did actually understand that he was a leader. Truss and Sunak seem to think leading the country is someone else's responsibility - see all the stuff about not responding to the HS2 speculation that originated from his own office.

kingstongraham

"The best tax cut that I can deliver for the British people is to halve inflation."

If they have done it by causing interest rates to rise, and restricting pay rises to the public sector, how is that anything like a tax cut?

Pross

Johnson was probably the best of them in terms of actually having some policies. That in itself is hugely damning as he was, at the time, the worst PM in my lifetime as well as a poor example of a human. To think we have now had two worse PMs in just over a year is ridiculous. May was the wrong PM for the time, trying to deliver something she didn't believe in whilst relying on a bunch of rabid dogs in her own Party to get anything done. But Corbyn...

rjsterry

kingstongraham said:

"The best tax cut that I can deliver for the British people is to halve inflation."

If they have done it by causing interest rates to rise, and restricting pay rises to the public sector, how is that anything like a tax cut?

It's just complete bollox.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

Johnson was probably the best of them in terms of actually having some policies. That in itself is hugely damning as he was, at the time, the worst PM in my lifetime as well as a poor example of a human. To think we have now had two worse PMs in just over a year is ridiculous. May was the wrong PM for the time, trying to deliver something she didn't believe in whilst relying on a bunch of rabid dogs in her own Party to get anything done. But Corbyn...

I think May might have been OK (notwithstanding her 'citizens of nowhere', 'hostile environment' and Human Rights Act comments), at least on the competency and honesty, if she'd not been saddled with the impossibility of trying to craft a 'good Brexit'. I think she was closer to the Thatcher model - honest, hard-working and (reasonably) consistent, however much you might have disliked her politics.

tailwindhome

They've gone crackers

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Danny Kruger is Prue Leith's son! I doubt he watches 'Bake Off', seems more like a David Icke podcast kind of guy.

I really don't know whether these people really believe in this stuff or whether they genuinely think there is political mileage in trying to appeal to the genuinely deranged?

When you look at just how much the political landscape has changed in this country over the last decade, it is frightening.

I long for the days of cash for questions and general Tory sleaze, as it was a step up in class from the current bunch of headbangers.

Pross

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

Johnson was probably the best of them in terms of actually having some policies. That in itself is hugely damning as he was, at the time, the worst PM in my lifetime as well as a poor example of a human. To think we have now had two worse PMs in just over a year is ridiculous. May was the wrong PM for the time, trying to deliver something she didn't believe in whilst relying on a bunch of rabid dogs in her own Party to get anything done. But Corbyn...

I think May might have been OK (notwithstanding her 'citizens of nowhere', 'hostile environment' and Human Rights Act comments), at least on the competency and honesty, if she'd not been saddled with the impossibility of trying to craft a 'good Brexit'. I think she was closer to the Thatcher model - honest, hard-working and (reasonably) consistent, however much you might have disliked her politics.

Yep, agreed - wrong person at the wrong time possibly whereas the others were wrong person at any time.

rick_chasey

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

Danny Kruger is Prue Leith's son! I doubt he watches 'Bake Off', seems more like a David Icke podcast kind of guy.

I really don't know whether these people really believe in this stuff or whether they genuinely think there is political mileage in trying to appeal to the genuinely deranged?

When you look at just how much the political landscape has changed in this country over the last decade, it is frightening.

I long for the days of cash for questions and general Tory sleaze, as it was a step up in class from the current bunch of headbangers.

I meet people who believe this stuff. One was a senior HRD at a big big firm.

Complaining about the LTNs, meant she couldn't get out of her house to play golf at the weekend. Was so annoyed she left the neighbourhood to a big pile in Kent. Reckoned it was just labour councillors trying to get rid of people who have made money.

MIL thinks busses and bikes are for mugs, (even though she can no longer drive herself..!!!), thinks the 20mph is beyond mad and will cause traffic jams and genuinely thinks the next generation are too soft for their own good and they're ruining the country and it's that change in values that has caused all the problems we have now.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

MIL thinks busses and bikes are for mugs, (even though she can no longer drive herself..!!!)

This in particular made me laugh!

I would love to know what happens to get people to think in this manner, particularly those who go to the extreme end. I have read some bits about people who fall down the rabbit hole into conspiracy theories. It is often people who have low self esteem who need to try and establish a sense of control over their lives which often manifests itself through a sense of superiority i.e. I know what really goes on and you 'sheep' are all in the dark kind of thing.

rick_chasey

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

MIL thinks busses and bikes are for mugs, (even though she can no longer drive herself..!!!)

This in particular made me laugh!

I would love to know what happens to get people to think in this manner, particularly those who go to the extreme end. I have read some bits about people who fall down the rabbit hole into conspiracy theories. It is often people who have low self esteem who need to try and establish a sense of control over their lives which often manifests itself through a sense of superiority i.e. I know what really goes on and you 'sheep' are all in the dark kind of thing.

She came from a poor background and now she's not, so she associates not-car driving with being poor.

As a result, she relies exclusively on lifts/goodwill from other people to do anything.

That's fine when they're all in their 60s like she is, but give it 10-15 years and that won't be an option.

In the meantime, they're cutting the bus services anyway, so by the time she needs it there probably won't be one anymore.

carbonclem

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

Danny Kruger is Prue Leith's son! I doubt he watches 'Bake Off', seems more like a David Icke podcast kind of guy.
.

I recall her coming out with a load of Brexit related nonsense, so I'm not so suprised

First.Aspect

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

MIL thinks busses and bikes are for mugs, (even though she can no longer drive herself..!!!)

This in particular made me laugh!

I would love to know what happens to get people to think in this manner, particularly those who go to the extreme end. I have read some bits about people who fall down the rabbit hole into conspiracy theories. It is often people who have low self esteem who need to try and establish a sense of control over their lives which often manifests itself through a sense of superiority i.e. I know what really goes on and you 'sheep' are all in the dark kind of thing.

I think some of them become Tory MPs.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

Johnson was probably the best of them in terms of actually having some policies. That in itself is hugely damning as he was, at the time, the worst PM in my lifetime as well as a poor example of a human. To think we have now had two worse PMs in just over a year is ridiculous. May was the wrong PM for the time, trying to deliver something she didn't believe in whilst relying on a bunch of rabid dogs in her own Party to get anything done. But Corbyn...

I think May might have been OK (notwithstanding her 'citizens of nowhere', 'hostile environment' and Human Rights Act comments), at least on the competency and honesty, if she'd not been saddled with the impossibility of trying to craft a 'good Brexit'. I think she was closer to the Thatcher model - honest, hard-working and (reasonably) consistent, however much you might have disliked her politics.

Yep, agreed - wrong person at the wrong time possibly whereas the others were wrong person at any time.

Difficult to place Truss, Sunak and Johnson. At least Truss has the defence of being really stupid. Johnson isn't as stupid or deluded as her, but he did lay the groundwork for straight-up lying being acceptable, which helped both Truss and Sunak. Truss we knew would be a car crash, but any hope of Sunak being competent or pragmatic (other than his 'pragmatism' of grasping at electoral straws of ULEZ etc) has been comprehensively demolished.

tailwindhome

This really is going incredibly well

Jezyboy

Presumably those 60 MPs joining Truss have got cushy private sector roles lined up and want to force an election instead of resigning their seat.

joeyhalloran

How does anyone look at Lizz Truss and think 'Yup, I'd follow your lead'?!

Pross

It’s getting beyond parody now. If I was a dyed in the wool Tory I’d be furious at what these idiots are doing to the Party but it seems they’re still happy to support the team without question whilst chanting about how much worse it would be under the Lefties.