TDF 2023: Stage 16:- Passy to Combloux, 22.4km ITT ***Spoilers***

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Comments

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited July 2023
    I don't really get why people are finding Vingegaard particularly suspicious. In the run up to this race everyone, almost without exception, was saying this was going to be a two horse race with third place very distant. Everything they said was right, especially as consistent performers Carapaz and Mas exited early. And then one of the two horses went lame. Third place is UAE's fourth choice GC rider and is only the second most successful GT rider in his family.

    People seem to be shocked that their predictions were right.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Presumably it is the size of gap that opened up to the second of the favourites. It was a huge margin over two stages but I think the second of those stages showed just how knackered he was.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked arse.

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Really? I'd say whistleblowing a scandal this big would make a career
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    It's human nature - he's less popular than Pogacar and that will inevitably lead people to give more credence to the idea he may be cheating than if he had Pogacar's level of popularity. .

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    m.r.m. said:

    RichN95. said:


    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I don't think this is true. Pogacar has handled getting smashed with substantial grace. He has been truthful with the media and has not sulked and has been grateful to his team and gracious to Vingegaard.

    Indeed. Pogacar has dealt with defeat more gracefully than Vingegaard (who comes across as a smug, arrogant knob) has dealt with victory.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    RichN95. said:

    I don't really get why people are finding Vingegaard particularly suspicious. In the run up to this race everyone, almost without exception, was saying this was going to be a two horse race with third place very distant. Everything they said was right, especially as consistent performers Carapaz and Mas exited early. And then one of the two horses went lame. Third place is UAE's fourth choice GC rider and is only the second most successful GT rider in his family.

    People seem to be shocked that their predictions were right.

    Those predictions were based upon rides that were already deeply suspicious though.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,572
    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    Utter bollocks!
    Pog is still smiling. Even in his post Loze stage interval he was smiling.

    We all expected a 2 horse race. What we didn't anticipate was the TT performance from Jonas, anihilating all opposition, even Wout, who had given it everything in the TT.

  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,438
    I am a bit surprised at the level of revisionism on here about the TT; beforehand literally everyone was saying the TT would be close, a few seconds either way but not decisive. Yet now some have done a complete about turn and saying the huge gaps were entirely to be expected.
  • feelgoodlost
    feelgoodlost Posts: 337
    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    EH?!
    https://www.strava.com/athletes/442763
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    RichN95. said:



    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.

    TBF any time spent in Cake Stop will aptly demonstrate this to be true...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited July 2023
    ...
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    ddraver said:

    RichN95. said:



    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.

    TBF any time spent in Cake Stop will aptly demonstrate this to be true...
    Never have voted Conservative though I try not to be tribal when it comes to politics. I think we are just an older demographic Raver and our views probably reflect that. Back to the racing !
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    I Like them both ..neither of them is a puller ....rare for young men with money and fame. They are both fine
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    I thought there was only Stevo who was still openly tory on BR and he claims that he can’t stand to watch road racing.
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 317
    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    Absolutely not a tory. And i doubt everyone who questioned JV’s performance on Tuesday can be labelled as such.

  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    stage_hunter said:

    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    Absolutely not a tory. And i doubt everyone who questioned JV’s performance on Tuesday can be labelled as such.

    If he were British, Vingegaard would definitely be a Tory voter.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,612
    He really seems to have taken the jam out of your doughnut.

    Personally Pog deserves to lose the tour with those stupid tufts of hair sticking out of his helmet.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Another one of those can't find the tweet moments, but I saw a Danish Journo* trying to explain to someone that part of JVs issue is that he is from Jutland where a sentence like "I'm mildly happy to have won the tour" or "My legs felt better than average" are statements of wild exuberance bordering on arrogance.

    I do think there is a bit of a culture problem.


    *(seemed equivalent in stature to the Kate girl the Cycling Podcast had on a few years ago)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    Jezyboy said:

    He really seems to have taken the jam out of your doughnut.

    Fair point. Vingergaard is unpleasant, arrogant and has achieved what he has by suspect means, but to label him a Tory is beyond the pail. I hereby withdraw that particular accusation.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited July 2023
    stage_hunter said:

    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    Absolutely not a tory. And i doubt everyone who questioned JV’s performance on Tuesday can be labelled as such.

    I will clarify my point as I have had less to drink. It comes down to the perception of a rider's talent when they are young. We often hear that in the past champions showed themselves young. LeMond and Fignon are usually cited. Armstrong (WC at 21) and Ullrich (TdF winner at 23) are usually ignored.

    Some have all the contacts and opportunities , others come from more difficult backgrounds. We hear people saying they never did anything when they were young, so how can they do anything now.

    Ignoring people's priviledge and thinking those advantages were earned is a trope of the current Conservative party.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    For what I assume was a throwaway line at the end of a post, that is a superb effort! :D
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • wavefront
    wavefront Posts: 397
    DeadCalm said:

    Jezyboy said:

    He really seems to have taken the jam out of your doughnut.

    Fair point. Vingergaard is unpleasant, arrogant and has achieved what he has by suspect means, but to label him a Tory is beyond the pail. I hereby withdraw that particular accusation.

    Considering the vitriol you’re spouting, you should have been called DeadAngry.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    LOL
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 317
    RichN95. said:

    stage_hunter said:

    RichN95. said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I think also the fact that he's not particularly likeable - or maybe fairer to say well liked - and he's up against a very popular opponent plays into it.


    But he's just an introverted person. He's done nothing unpleasant.
    Pogacar is extroverted and fun loving. As long as he's winning. Showing the world how easy it is for him. Now he' s losing, the fun loving has gone and he has a face like smacked censored .

    I could draw comparisons with the wider world and the privileged elite (who cycling fans seem to adore) and those rose through struggle (who they view with suspicion). In summary, cycling fans are Tories.
    Absolutely not a tory. And i doubt everyone who questioned JV’s performance on Tuesday can be labelled as such.

    I will clarify my point as I have had less to drink. It comes down to the perception of a rider's talent when they are young. We often hear that in the past champions showed themselves young. LeMond and Fignon are usually cited. Armstrong (WC at 21) and Ullrich (TdF winner at 23) are usually ignored.

    Some have all the contacts and opportunities , others come from more difficult backgrounds. We hear people saying they never did anything when they were young, so how can they do anything now.

    Ignoring people's priviledge and thinking those advantages were earned is a trope of the current Conservative party.
    Ha ha ha. Do you know the first thing I thought of reading your post was whether you were drunk! Didn’t say anything as not the right thing to do.

    I agree with your first two paras. I think it is a huge problem with sports outside of football. Well off parents can help kids massively
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    stage_hunter said:



    Ha ha ha. Do you know the first thing I thought of reading your post was whether you were drunk! Didn’t say anything as not the right thing to do.

    I often post on here after a few Tripel Karmeliets (or vodka equivalent). I like to think I make pro-active pints that may not always make sense. I'm just glad I'm not offensive.

    Right. I've had a few. Trans cycling..,.. (No, let's not)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,124
    edited July 2023
    RichN95. said:

    stage_hunter said:



    Ha ha ha. Do you know the first thing I thought of reading your post was whether you were drunk! Didn’t say anything as not the right thing to do.

    I often post on here after a few Tripel Karmeliets (or vodka equivalent). I like to think I make pro-active pints that may not always make sense. I'm just glad I'm not offensive.

    Right. I've had a few. Trans cycling..,.. (No, let's not)
    Love a pro-active pint myself. :p

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