TDF 2023: Stage 16:- Passy to Combloux, 22.4km ITT ***Spoilers***
blazing_saddles
Posts: 22,730
Stage 16:- Passy to Combloux, 22.4km ITT
Tuesday, July 18
Start Time: 12-05pmBST.
The only battle against the clock in this Tour of France. Moreover, the 22.4 kilometres of the time trial are the fewest that have been in a Grand Boucle in a long time. However, this Contre la Montre is not for specialists only, because as soon as three kilometres after the start the course leads up to Cote des Soudans. Together with the final six kilometres over the steep climb to Cote de Domanchy (category 2) up to the finish in Combloux, it clearly favours riders who “came out” well of yesterday’s rest day and when compared to the usual fare, the climbers.
The parcours is not unlike the climbing ITT from de 2016 Tour de France. That race went from Sallanches to Megève and took in the Côte de Domancy before moving through Combloux on the way to the finish line. After setting off from Passy the riders tackle the Côte de Soudans – 1.3 kilometres at 8.8% – in the first 3.4 kilometres. A gradual downhill takes them onto a flat section from Sallanches to Domancy. That’s where the Côte de Domancy kicks in. The 2.5 kilometres climb at 9.4% continues for 3.5 kilometres at 5% to the line in Combloux.
Seven years ago the road ascended for 4.5 more kilometres before the ITT finished on descent with a Chris Froome victory.
In fact, this year’s course features an extra section at the beginning, while the part from Combloux to Megève has been removed.
There are three intermediate time checks – at kilometre 7.1, at kilometre 16.1 and at kilometre 18.9.
The climbs and finishing Kms.
Last Kms.
The 2.5 kilometres climb at 9.4% continues for 3.5 kilometres at 5% to the line in Combloux.
What to Expect.
This time trial will be won by a GC rider, not a specialist. Other than that, it's a time trial, so we all know what to expect. Maybe there will be some drama, maybe not.
Passy.
Stage town for the first time
Population: 11,350
Passy is a commune in the Haute-Savoie department in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region in south-eastern France. It is part of the urban area of Sallanches.
PASSY AND CYCLING
Passy has seen the Tour de France pass through on several occasions, last year for example during the 10th stage between Morzine and Megève, won by Magnus Cort. But the race had never stopped here. Now it is. The town has hosted stages of the Tour de la Vallée d'Aoste and the Tour des pays de Savoie (won by Spaniard Jordi Simon in 2014). Born in Passy, although Swiss, Jean Martinet, who was also a cyclo-cross specialist, took part in three editions of the Tour de France in 1924, 1938 and 1930 and finished it twice.
Gastronomy.
Tomme de chèvre de Savoie
Tomme de chèvre is a traditional French cheese hailing from Savoie. The cheese is made from raw goat's milk. Underneath its bloomy rind, the texture is creamy, pliable, and smooth. The aromas are pungent, barnyardy, earthy, and goaty, while the flavor is fruity, sweet, citrusy, and nutty on the finish.
Tomme de chèvre ages for 7 weeks before it's ready for consumption.
Gratin de crozets
Gratin de crozets is a traditional French dish originating from the Savoie region. It's made with a combination of onions, lardons, crème fraîche, chicken stock, grated cheese such as Gruyere, Comte, or Beaufort, and crozets – a traditional local pasta variety that's small, flat, and square-shaped, made from buckwheat, wheat (or both), eggs, salt, and water.
The pasta is cooked in chicken stock, while the onions are fried with lardons in a pan. Both are then mixed with the addition of crème fraîche, topped with grated cheese, and baked in the oven until golden brown and the cheese becomes fully melted.
Combloux.
Stage town for the first time
Population: 2,100.
Combloux is a commune in the Haute-Savoie department in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region in Southeastern France, with a population of over 2,000 residents. Combloux, charming village resort, located in Haute-Savoie, facing Mont-Blanc.
COMBLOUX AND CYCLING
Situated 5 km from Megève and 4 km from the famous Domancy hill, today on the road named after Bernard Hinault in honour of the man who was world champion there in 1980, Combloux has seen the peloton ride past on several occasions and notably during the last Tour de France.
Gastronomy.
Péla
Péla is the ancestor of tartiflette. It is very similar, except for a few details: the potatoes are not peeled and the whole dish is cooked in a pan. It is sometimes defined as a fricassee with Reblochon cheese.
Tuesday, July 18
Start Time: 12-05pmBST.
The only battle against the clock in this Tour of France. Moreover, the 22.4 kilometres of the time trial are the fewest that have been in a Grand Boucle in a long time. However, this Contre la Montre is not for specialists only, because as soon as three kilometres after the start the course leads up to Cote des Soudans. Together with the final six kilometres over the steep climb to Cote de Domanchy (category 2) up to the finish in Combloux, it clearly favours riders who “came out” well of yesterday’s rest day and when compared to the usual fare, the climbers.
The parcours is not unlike the climbing ITT from de 2016 Tour de France. That race went from Sallanches to Megève and took in the Côte de Domancy before moving through Combloux on the way to the finish line. After setting off from Passy the riders tackle the Côte de Soudans – 1.3 kilometres at 8.8% – in the first 3.4 kilometres. A gradual downhill takes them onto a flat section from Sallanches to Domancy. That’s where the Côte de Domancy kicks in. The 2.5 kilometres climb at 9.4% continues for 3.5 kilometres at 5% to the line in Combloux.
Seven years ago the road ascended for 4.5 more kilometres before the ITT finished on descent with a Chris Froome victory.
In fact, this year’s course features an extra section at the beginning, while the part from Combloux to Megève has been removed.
There are three intermediate time checks – at kilometre 7.1, at kilometre 16.1 and at kilometre 18.9.
The climbs and finishing Kms.
Last Kms.
The 2.5 kilometres climb at 9.4% continues for 3.5 kilometres at 5% to the line in Combloux.
What to Expect.
This time trial will be won by a GC rider, not a specialist. Other than that, it's a time trial, so we all know what to expect. Maybe there will be some drama, maybe not.
Passy.
Stage town for the first time
Population: 11,350
Passy is a commune in the Haute-Savoie department in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region in south-eastern France. It is part of the urban area of Sallanches.
PASSY AND CYCLING
Passy has seen the Tour de France pass through on several occasions, last year for example during the 10th stage between Morzine and Megève, won by Magnus Cort. But the race had never stopped here. Now it is. The town has hosted stages of the Tour de la Vallée d'Aoste and the Tour des pays de Savoie (won by Spaniard Jordi Simon in 2014). Born in Passy, although Swiss, Jean Martinet, who was also a cyclo-cross specialist, took part in three editions of the Tour de France in 1924, 1938 and 1930 and finished it twice.
Gastronomy.
Tomme de chèvre de Savoie
Tomme de chèvre is a traditional French cheese hailing from Savoie. The cheese is made from raw goat's milk. Underneath its bloomy rind, the texture is creamy, pliable, and smooth. The aromas are pungent, barnyardy, earthy, and goaty, while the flavor is fruity, sweet, citrusy, and nutty on the finish.
Tomme de chèvre ages for 7 weeks before it's ready for consumption.
Gratin de crozets
Gratin de crozets is a traditional French dish originating from the Savoie region. It's made with a combination of onions, lardons, crème fraîche, chicken stock, grated cheese such as Gruyere, Comte, or Beaufort, and crozets – a traditional local pasta variety that's small, flat, and square-shaped, made from buckwheat, wheat (or both), eggs, salt, and water.
The pasta is cooked in chicken stock, while the onions are fried with lardons in a pan. Both are then mixed with the addition of crème fraîche, topped with grated cheese, and baked in the oven until golden brown and the cheese becomes fully melted.
Combloux.
Stage town for the first time
Population: 2,100.
Combloux is a commune in the Haute-Savoie department in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region in Southeastern France, with a population of over 2,000 residents. Combloux, charming village resort, located in Haute-Savoie, facing Mont-Blanc.
COMBLOUX AND CYCLING
Situated 5 km from Megève and 4 km from the famous Domancy hill, today on the road named after Bernard Hinault in honour of the man who was world champion there in 1980, Combloux has seen the peloton ride past on several occasions and notably during the last Tour de France.
Gastronomy.
Péla
Péla is the ancestor of tartiflette. It is very similar, except for a few details: the potatoes are not peeled and the whole dish is cooked in a pan. It is sometimes defined as a fricassee with Reblochon cheese.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
7
Comments
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Good morning from Domancy.
Yesterday Pog & Kung were the only ones practicing bike changes. Both approx 100m up the climb, outside the school.
Pog did many at slightly different places.
Yesterday was Flying Ant Day in Megeve. It was horrible. Fingers crossed they all mated yesterday and leave us alone today.
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Domancy to Combloux isn’t very scenic, but it’s nippy. Went up it in the rain a few years ago.0
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Analysis of the TT, bike change for the last climb seems pretty marginal
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I am extremely excited0
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Morkov starts at just after midday UK time0
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Not very clear, I know. Just about readable using zoom.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Scrolling down from that twitter thread there's a thread about the push effect of the following team cars - not just how close they are but how (un)aerodynamic they are. The less aero the car the more benefit for the rider in front - and a great way to make a car unaero is bikes on the roof.
If the team car following the top GC rider is stacked with as many bikes on the roof as it'll take apparently that is the reason why.
Talk about marginal gains.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
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Sounds like a job for an Ineos Grenadier.DeVlaeminck said:Scrolling down from that twitter thread there's a thread about the push effect of the following team cars - not just how close they are but how (un)aerodynamic they are. The less aero the car the more benefit for the rider in front - and a great way to make a car unaero is bikes on the roof.
If the team car following the top GC rider is stacked with as many bikes on the roof as it'll take apparently that is the reason why.
Talk about marginal gains.1 -
Matteo Jorgenson is a DNS.
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Team cars now have to be 25m behind the rider so there is very little benefit to be had from this kind of thingmrb123 said:
Sounds like a job for an Ineos Grenadier.DeVlaeminck said:Scrolling down from that twitter thread there's a thread about the push effect of the following team cars - not just how close they are but how (un)aerodynamic they are. The less aero the car the more benefit for the rider in front - and a great way to make a car unaero is bikes on the roof.
If the team car following the top GC rider is stacked with as many bikes on the roof as it'll take apparently that is the reason why.
Talk about marginal gains.0 -
What it lacks in length, it makes up for with technical challenges. The first climb is steeper than the profile shows, followed by a technical descent, then the final climb is right on the cusp of the decision point to switch from a TT bike to a road bike or not. The severity of the last 15 mins or so of effort will also benefit those who get their pacing strategy absolutely spot on.rick_chasey said:Hadn't realised *quite* how short this is.
Not impressed.
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well yes it's so short you can't really make up for any errors.andyp said:
What it lacks in length, it makes up for with technical challenges. The first climb is steeper than the profile shows, followed by a technical descent, then the final climb is right on the cusp of the decision point to switch from a TT bike to a road bike or not. The severity of the last 15 mins or so of effort will also benefit those who get their pacing strategy absolutely spot on.rick_chasey said:Hadn't realised *quite* how short this is.
Not impressed.0 -
Which I think is good. I know you and Iain disagree, but short TTs are far more interesting in terms of GC than a 50 km test. I'm glad they are a thing of the past in the Tour.rick_chasey said:
well yes it's so short you can't really make up for any errors.andyp said:
What it lacks in length, it makes up for with technical challenges. The first climb is steeper than the profile shows, followed by a technical descent, then the final climb is right on the cusp of the decision point to switch from a TT bike to a road bike or not. The severity of the last 15 mins or so of effort will also benefit those who get their pacing strategy absolutely spot on.rick_chasey said:Hadn't realised *quite* how short this is.
Not impressed.0 -
Well I agree in the sense that if you're gonna run sub 180km mountain stages, it doesn't make sense to run 50km+ TTs.andyp said:
Which I think is good. I know you and Iain disagree, but short TTs are far more interesting in terms of GC than a 50 km test. I'm glad they are a thing of the past in the Tour.rick_chasey said:
well yes it's so short you can't really make up for any errors.andyp said:
What it lacks in length, it makes up for with technical challenges. The first climb is steeper than the profile shows, followed by a technical descent, then the final climb is right on the cusp of the decision point to switch from a TT bike to a road bike or not. The severity of the last 15 mins or so of effort will also benefit those who get their pacing strategy absolutely spot on.rick_chasey said:Hadn't realised *quite* how short this is.
Not impressed.
I also think that we're slightly deceiving ourselves when a race is "close" that it's immediately exciting.
Racing for bonus seconds after the queen mountain stage isn't all that a good a spectacle IMO.
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Just as well that all opinions are allowed.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I'd love a full medium mountain stage individual TT just to see how it played out. Obviously never going to happen if only for logistical reasons.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Tartiflette is a marketing scam to get rid of inedible Savoyard cheese to gullible winter tourists. Must be consumed with vast quantities of local rotgut wines in order to dilute the cheese and avoid having a coronary.blazing_saddles said:
Péla
Péla is the ancestor of tartiflette
A traditional dish since... 1980
BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme1 -
The technical aspect is what made me surprised anyone is considering a bike change. I can't see there being many parts of the course where a TT bike will be advantageous.andyp said:
What it lacks in length, it makes up for with technical challenges. The first climb is steeper than the profile shows, followed by a technical descent, then the final climb is right on the cusp of the decision point to switch from a TT bike to a road bike or not. The severity of the last 15 mins or so of effort will also benefit those who get their pacing strategy absolutely spot on.rick_chasey said:Hadn't realised *quite* how short this is.
Not impressed.0 -
For equal power output, a TT bike would be faster to the foot of the finishing climb. The question the teams have to answer is whether the time taken to switch bikes will be worth the time lost by riding a (heavier) TT bike up the climb, especially the steeper first 2 kms.Pross said:
The technical aspect is what made me surprised anyone is considering a bike change. I can't see there being many parts of the course where a TT bike will be advantageous.andyp said:
What it lacks in length, it makes up for with technical challenges. The first climb is steeper than the profile shows, followed by a technical descent, then the final climb is right on the cusp of the decision point to switch from a TT bike to a road bike or not. The severity of the last 15 mins or so of effort will also benefit those who get their pacing strategy absolutely spot on.rick_chasey said:Hadn't realised *quite* how short this is.
Not impressed.0 -
Bike changes will take longer than they did at the Giro as they will have to take the bike off the following car from behind the rider.0
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That'll take a week for Ineos then if we use Thomas' Giro change as the yardstickr0bh said:Bike changes will take longer than they did at the Giro as they will have to take the bike off the following car from behind the rider.
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They'll need an extending ladder, too, if it's on top of a Grenadier.2
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Bike change seems a hell of a risk"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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I hope pog at least gains time"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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