TDF 2023: Stage 16:- Passy to Combloux, 22.4km ITT ***Spoilers***
Comments
-
Bl00dy time trials ruining our tour ...grrrrr 🤔😁"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
-
Someone is going to be best ..... It was a top performance for real"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1
-
Yeah they should let him in ..and he is frenchjimmyjams said:
Renard missed the cut-off by only one second – maybe the jury will be generous.blazing_saddles said:With about 20 minutes of the TT left, Rob Hatch confidently announced that everybody was safe by 2-3 minutes from being Hors Delay...............
........well, 20 minutes later, the Cofidis rider Alexis Renard, who finished last at 10:46, was outside the 33% time limit today.
Perhaps since Renard was one of those riders at the beginning of the TT who fell at the first curve – apparently one of the white road markings there was slippy."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Yeah gianetti wasn't shy of needles .jimmyjams said:
Coincidentally, or not, the Jumbo DS Grischa Niemann rode for Rabobank. In 2013 he admitted that during his cycling career, he sometimes used EPO between 2000 and 2003.Dorset_Boy said:Coupled with Wout's extra-ordinary performances, Jumbo appear to have reverted to their ancestor, Rabbobank.
Too many unbelievable performaces sadly.
But on the other hand, Gianetti (!) is in charge at UAE and the Slovenian Cycling Federation never tests its professionals.
????
I do find it amazing he is cycling tbh ...but whatever"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Look it's very simple ..... Altitude camps are the new epo and reduced racing programs and MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF ANALYSED data is the new steroids .... I don't think these guys are on some new gear"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm6
-
An acquaintance of mine suggested that Pogacar lost 10 secs at the bike change, 25 secs as Vingegaard had a better aerodynamic position when needed (on the flat & downhill), 20 secs towards the end because Vingegaard was spurred on by hearing he had a marked lead (and Pogacar negatively affected by hearing this), and 5 secs because for three-quarters of stage Pogacar rode with his cycling glasses up on his helmet, not before his eyes. In total that's one minute of the final 1-38.
It may be true but it amused me to think having the glasses up could be measurable contributory factor, and thus whether it could be even more than 5 secs over that distance.
1 -
Yeah ..... We ALL knew EPO by 94 some much earlier... What's this new drug no one is talking aboutrick_chasey said:
We’d have heard rumours by now. Do you not remember cycling in the 90s and 00s?amrushton said:
The science is always ahead of the testing and if they were taking something you would have to know what you are testing for and make the substance(s) illegalrick_chasey said:So what are they taking?
Maybe you don’t remember but back in the day we had a pretty good idea what they were all on.
We all knew it."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I remember Some one calculated fignon's pony tail drag back in the day in a letter to the comic ( jesus I'm old)jimmyjams said:An acquaintance of mine suggested that Pogacar lost 10 secs at the bike change, 25 secs as Vingegaard had a better aerodynamic position when needed (on the flat & downhill), 20 secs towards the end because Vingegaard was spurred on by hearing he had a marked lead (and Pogacar negatively affected by hearing this), and 5 secs because for three-quarters of stage Pogacar rode with his cycling glasses up on his helmet, not before his eyes. In total that's one minute of the final 1-38.
It may be true but it amused me to think having the glasses up could be measurable contributory factor, and thus whether it could be even more than 5 secs over that distance."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
I must admit to finding the obsession with weight confusing when riders were wearing gold chains. 🤣mididoctors said:
I remember Some one calculated fignon's pony tail drag back in the day in a letter to the comic ( jesus I'm old)jimmyjams said:An acquaintance of mine suggested that Pogacar lost 10 secs at the bike change, 25 secs as Vingegaard had a better aerodynamic position when needed (on the flat & downhill), 20 secs towards the end because Vingegaard was spurred on by hearing he had a marked lead (and Pogacar negatively affected by hearing this), and 5 secs because for three-quarters of stage Pogacar rode with his cycling glasses up on his helmet, not before his eyes. In total that's one minute of the final 1-38.
It may be true but it amused me to think having the glasses up could be measurable contributory factor, and thus whether it could be even more than 5 secs over that distance.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Chris Froome won stage 19 of the 2018 giro by 3 minutes having attacked from 80km out against a weaker field. It's routinely thought of as one of the best rides of the decade. Only 5 riders finished within 3 minutes of Vingergaard today in a 22km stage. Today was utterly ridiculous.JimD666 said:
Wasn't the same thing being said about Froome and Sky?Dorset_Boy said:Wout's performances last year in the Tour and again this year are other worldly. No way should he be one of the last 2 domestiques on a mountain stage, but he usually is.
And then there's Jonas's performance today, and others have highlighted, he wasn't anything until the last 18 months or so.
Common thread, Jumbo.....
For all our sakes, I pray JV, WvA and Jumbo aren't doing anything dodgy, but it is perfectly reasonable to be sceptical of their performances.
Just finished listening to a BBC Podcast revisiting Pantani's death and one of the things that struck me was that the major Pharmaceutical Companies now let the Anti Doping groups know what's in their pipeline for release. This gives them a chance to develop tests before the stuff hits the market. I know that leaves a "backyard" chemist developing something but who in the right mind would take that?!
I'd rather go Jonas just got everything right on the day. Pog didn't.
Neither Froome, nor anyone else from Sky, ever did anything like today."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago2 -
What's the top tier spread on a UK hill climb ?gsk82 said:
Chris Froome won stage 19 of the 2018 giro by 3 minutes having attacked from 80km out against a weaker field. It's routinely thought of as one of the best rides of the decade. Only 5 riders finished within 3 minutes of Vingergaard today in a 22km stage. Today was utterly ridiculous.JimD666 said:
Wasn't the same thing being said about Froome and Sky?Dorset_Boy said:Wout's performances last year in the Tour and again this year are other worldly. No way should he be one of the last 2 domestiques on a mountain stage, but he usually is.
And then there's Jonas's performance today, and others have highlighted, he wasn't anything until the last 18 months or so.
Common thread, Jumbo.....
For all our sakes, I pray JV, WvA and Jumbo aren't doing anything dodgy, but it is perfectly reasonable to be sceptical of their performances.
Just finished listening to a BBC Podcast revisiting Pantani's death and one of the things that struck me was that the major Pharmaceutical Companies now let the Anti Doping groups know what's in their pipeline for release. This gives them a chance to develop tests before the stuff hits the market. I know that leaves a "backyard" chemist developing something but who in the right mind would take that?!
I'd rather go Jonas just got everything right on the day. Pog didn't.
Better Froome, nor anyone else from Sky, ever for anything like today.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I guess we should investigate.......but honestly anyone got any leads on the next super drug?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
-
mididoctors said:
Look it's very simple ..... Altitude camps are the new epo and reduced racing programs and MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF ANALYSED data is the new steroids .... I don't think these guys are on some new gear
Well we don't know do we. It may be that Jumbo have hit on some new training paradigm and Jonas is just especially suited to it.
I don't think today is explainable just by them being very thorough in using well understood training techniques like altitude camps - unless they are using them in some new way. That just smacks of the "what am I on? I'm on my bike busting my ass" line and we know how that turned out .
He's demolished top riders by such a margin that unless he's a once in a several generation athlete there has to be something novel. If he is that talented then he should be winning not just Tours but just about any race with a significant hill in it.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
There is so much self interest for journalists to report or break this new drug story . I can't see it not coming out in short order ."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
-
that reminds merick_chasey said:So what are they taking?
Maybe you don’t remember but back in the day we had a pretty good idea what they were all on.
https://youtu.be/MIl5RxhLZ5U BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme2 -
At least we're not debating whether the bike change cost Pog the Tour.1
-
As a winning margin as a proportion of the overall time, this is the only one I can find better, from 1961. Even then the gap to third is lessphreak said:Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.
Twitter: @RichN951 -
I'd wait and see what happens tomorrow before judging today too much. One of the things that was widely expected when doping finally (?) came under control would be that riders would simply be less consistent - it's impossible to ride flat out day after day. Vingegaard might absolutely flatline tomorrow, as unlikely as it seems right now.
The comparison to Froome in the Giro feels a bit flawed though - that was a normal road race stage, with all the potential shenanigans, deals, expectations and arguments in the peloton about who does what to help him. There's none of that to help in an ITT.1 -
I heard a radio documentary back in the late 90s discussing "the next thing".mididoctors said:I guess we should investigate.......but honestly anyone got any leads on the next super drug?
Wish I could remember enough to find it. It wasn't drugs, it was genes or DNA.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I remember Fignon – I was young and camping in France the day in 1984 he took the jersey - I followed the TdF on France-Inter radio and it was so exciting listening with no pictures or TV - like some people still praise radio-commentaries of football matches being better than TV coverage (not that i agree, but anyway it's an opinion, and was true for me that Fignon day)mididoctors said:
I remember Some one calculated fignon's pony tail drag back in the day in a letter to the comic ( jesus I'm old)jimmyjams said:An acquaintance of mine suggested that Pogacar lost 10 secs at the bike change, 25 secs as Vingegaard had a better aerodynamic position when needed (on the flat & downhill), 20 secs towards the end because Vingegaard was spurred on by hearing he had a marked lead (and Pogacar negatively affected by hearing this), and 5 secs because for three-quarters of stage Pogacar rode with his cycling glasses up on his helmet, not before his eyes. In total that's one minute of the final 1-38.
It may be true but it amused me to think having the glasses up could be measurable contributory factor, and thus whether it could be even more than 5 secs over that distance.
I find the idea of a ponytail-drag quite logical, but maybe I am wrong, because you see lots of female cyclists with ponytails. Also many female track runners have ponytails, even over the 'short' 400 m distance, where I would think a drag effect may be very significant.
I am happy if a ponytail has no negative effect – for years I had hair no longer than 1 cm, but with hairdressers being closed during the Covid lockdowns, I let it grow, and now have a (short) ponytail myself!
0 -
So basically Jonas and jumbo are the X menpblakeney said:
I heard a radio documentary back in the late 90s discussing "the next thing".mididoctors said:I guess we should investigate.......but honestly anyone got any leads on the next super drug?
Wish I could remember enough to find it. It wasn't drugs, it was genes or DNA."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
It was a shocking performance...he looked annihilated at the finish"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
-
Genes? MvdP then...pblakeney said:
I heard a radio documentary back in the late 90s discussing "the next thing".mididoctors said:I guess we should investigate.......but honestly anyone got any leads on the next super drug?
Wish I could remember enough to find it. It wasn't drugs, it was genes or DNA.0 -
Well according to Wikipedia (if you can trust it) Vingegaard is 6kg lighter than Pogacar for virtually the same height. That's got to have a significant effect over 22Km with 1000m of climbing. Anyone want to run it through the calculator?0
-
It's been clear for the past two years that in GTs, Pogacar and Vingegaard are head and shoulders above anyone else, and this race has just reinforced this. Today was always expected to be a showdown between the two of them, so I'm slightly surprised at the reaction to that.
I thought one of them would make a statement, but wasn't sure which one as they've both looked to be in great form. I'm slightly surprised that Vingegaard was so superior, but it's now clear, with hindsight, that Jumbo-Visma were confident he would win this time trial by some margin.2 -
I thought there would maybe be 20-30 seconds one way or another as it was such a short TT. Struggling to comprehend the near catch of Pog and Rodriguez…0
-
What a photo.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!4 -
The little snippet that has remained lodged in my brain was that 96% of his potential clients were sportsmen. Alluded to American as that's where he was based at the time.mididoctors said:
So basically Jonas and jumbo are the X menpblakeney said:
I heard a radio documentary back in the late 90s discussing "the next thing".mididoctors said:I guess we should investigate.......but honestly anyone got any leads on the next super drug?
Wish I could remember enough to find it. It wasn't drugs, it was genes or DNA.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
With modern turbo technology, I bet Pog and Vin have done replicas of today's TT stage countless times since the route was known, through apps like Wahoo RGT and its "magic roads" feature.================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo1
