TDF 2023: Stage 16:- Passy to Combloux, 22.4km ITT ***Spoilers***

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Comments

  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    poweredbyidris said:

    Pross said:

    Looks like pretty amateur recovery to be sat around in your sweaty skinsuit chatting to your girlfriend.


    Beats my 'sat on the kitchen floor in front of the fridge eating jam straight from the pot'
    If you'd managed to get it between two slices of bread it would have been approved by Graeme Obree
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  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,833
    Battle for third should be good anyway.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Ciccone took the mountain points, BTW - Vingegaard 2nd, Yates 3rd, Pog 4th
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,597
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Ciccone took the mountain points, BTW - Vingegaard 2nd, Yates 3rd, Pog 4th

    Even allowing for him taking the start easily I'm amazed he went up there faster than Jonas.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,597
    Unfortunately Pog really hasn't looked like having the form to attack multiple times or from any kind of distance so unless Jonas blows up tomorrow, which doesn't seem likely, it is over and done with but I hope Pog at least goes down fighting. He's got a big cushion to third even if he wants to protect his second place.
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,833
    At what point does Pog give Yates full licence to protect third? Not tomorrow I assume but maybe on that last hilly stage if gap to Vin remains the same.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited July 2023
    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Yeah Lance was stronger than that in 2004. Put a minute into Ulrich up the Alp which was sandwiched by mountain stage wins by Lance, and then backed it up with another 1 minute thrashing of Ullrich in the end of week 3 TT.

    The USP team also obliterated the rest of the field in the TTT that year.
    _
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    rick_chasey said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Yeah Lance was stronger than that in 2004. Put a minute into Ulrich up the Alp which was sandwiched by mountain stage wins by Lance, and then backed it up with another 1 minute thrashing of Ullrich in the end of week 3 TT.

    The USP team also obliterated the rest of the field in the TTT that year.
    In the 39 minutes it took LA to win that stage, he took 61 seconds out of Ullrich and 1m41 out of Kloden. You have to get to outside the top 20 to see the kind of relative time gaps JV just put into WvA in 3rd place. It's not even comparable.
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,451
    edited July 2023
    rick_chasey said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Yeah Lance was stronger than that in 2004. Put a minute into Ulrich up the Alp which was sandwiched by mountain stage wins by Lance, and then backed it up with another 1 minute thrashing of Ullrich in the end of week 3 TT.

    The USP team also obliterated the rest of the field in the TTT that year.
    1 minute is less than 1 minute 38 seconds, and even less if you do it as seconds per overall time
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    I think it's ridiculous that they have uphill time trials in any grand tour. It's not as if there aren't enough mountains in the race to advantage the flyweights without giving them the time trial as well.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,597
    hypster said:

    I think it's ridiculous that they have uphill time trials in any grand tour. It's not as if there aren't enough mountains in the race to advantage the flyweights without giving them the time trial as well.

    Flat or undulating TTs in the final week of a GT often get won by the GC riders rather than a specialist though anyway.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Have you all forgotten Pog took 1'55" out of Roglic only three years ago?
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  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,154
    Well, I'm definitely watching "The Move" tonight/tomorrow.
  • feelgoodlost
    feelgoodlost Posts: 342
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Have you all forgotten Pog took 1'55" out of Roglic only three years ago?
    I think it's been well documented that Roglic had an absolute shocker that day.
    https://www.strava.com/athletes/442763
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    We're talking a 10% time gap between 1st and 3rd. Ignore cycling, I'm struggling to think of many elite sporting events where there has been such a margin. Even something notably batshit like Kratochvílová's world record run the difference between 1st and 3rd was only like 2.5%. 10% is absolutely vast.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Vingegaard to DK TV: Best day I've had on a bike. Surprised myself. Surprised by gap down to Wout, surprised by such a large time diff. Very happy to get a stage win
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  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 325
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Have you all forgotten Pog took 1'55" out of Roglic only three years ago?
    Roglic was 5th on the day. That TT was also about 70% longer by time. So this was far more dominant. Like on a different scale.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    feelgoodlost said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Have you all forgotten Pog took 1'55" out of Roglic only three years ago?
    I think it's been well documented that Roglic had an absolute shocker that day.
    Yep. Pogacar put 1.21 into a well past his prime Dumoulin on a much longer course. Not remotely comparable to what JVR did today.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Have you all forgotten Pog took 1'55" out of Roglic only three years ago?
    Not at all. Over the full course, Pogacar was about 2.5% quicker than Richie Porte in 3rd place, and about 3.5% faster than Roglic. Vingegaard was 10% faster than WvA in 3rd place. How is that even in the same ballpark?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,154
    Fighting for yellow can give you the super power sometimes (Roglic TT)?

    It reminds me of the greatness shown by Elon Musk, when he slept on the factory floor to get the model three's production sorted.

    Sometimes people can go beyond the limit.

    Ummm...
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,597
    phreak said:

    We're talking a 10% time gap between 1st and 3rd. Ignore cycling, I'm struggling to think of many elite sporting events where there has been such a margin. Even something notably batshit like Kratochvílová's world record run the difference between 1st and 3rd was only like 2.5%. 10% is absolutely vast.

    To play devil’s advocate a chunk of the time was made up by taking greater risks on the descents and another chunk by a bike change that didn’t bring any benefit. Ciccone did the climb faster.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    phreak said:

    Has there been a more dominant time trial in Tour history? I'm struggling to think of one. Not Indurain. Not Ullrich. Not Armstrong.

    Have you all forgotten Pog took 1'55" out of Roglic only three years ago?
    It's been mentioned elsewhere.
    However, he would have lost that TT to Jonas by 3 minutes today.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,611
    Coupled with Wout's extra-ordinary performances, Jumbo appear to have reverted to their ancestor, Rabbobank.
    Too many unbelievable performaces sadly.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    With about 20 minutes of the TT left, Rob Hatch confidently announced that everybody was safe by 2-3 minutes from being Hors Delay...............
    ........well, 20 minutes later, the Cofidis rider Alexis Renard, who finished last at 10:46, was outside the 33% time limit today. :'(
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    We're talking a 10% time gap between 1st and 3rd. Ignore cycling, I'm struggling to think of many elite sporting events where there has been such a margin. Even something notably batshit like Kratochvílová's world record run the difference between 1st and 3rd was only like 2.5%. 10% is absolutely vast.

    To play devil’s advocate a chunk of the time was made up by taking greater risks on the descents and another chunk by a bike change that didn’t bring any benefit. Ciccone did the climb faster.
    Yeah I think the bike change cost what, 20 seconds? 25? And seems to have been the wrong move entirely.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    I do wonder why some people watch pro cycling. As soon as anyone does a brilliant ride, they just start with the accusations.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    We're talking a 10% time gap between 1st and 3rd. Ignore cycling, I'm struggling to think of many elite sporting events where there has been such a margin. Even something notably batshit like Kratochvílová's world record run the difference between 1st and 3rd was only like 2.5%. 10% is absolutely vast.

    To play devil’s advocate a chunk of the time was made up by taking greater risks on the descents and another chunk by a bike change that didn’t bring any benefit. Ciccone did the climb faster.
    I'm not talking just about Pogacar though but to the rest. In an incredibly short time trial he put 10% into guys like WvA. We had the Cofidis guy eliminated by being outside the time limit. On a 22km time trial. The majority of the peloton was over 6 minutes adrift. I'm really struggling to think of a single performance in any athletic sport where the winner has been so far ahead of a world class field.
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 325
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    We're talking a 10% time gap between 1st and 3rd. Ignore cycling, I'm struggling to think of many elite sporting events where there has been such a margin. Even something notably batshit like Kratochvílová's world record run the difference between 1st and 3rd was only like 2.5%. 10% is absolutely vast.

    To play devil’s advocate a chunk of the time was made up by taking greater risks on the descents and another chunk by a bike change that didn’t bring any benefit. Ciccone did the climb faster.
    I didnt notice Van Aert change bikes

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