2023 Transfer rumours and confirmed moves
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Slightly different but having worked on a contract basis for many years I can assure you that clauses make most contracts not worth the paper they are written on for duration.kingstongraham said:If the riders have a contract, they can't just be told that it's over, surely. It's not like the team has gone bust.
They'd need to settle with the riders based on the future value of the contract even if they wanted no transfer fee.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
"Slightly different"
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The only difference from this season to the "racing on our hands" scenario above is Roglic moving team, which would likely happen anyway (as the trigger for that was the Vuelta rather than the merger) so I still don't think the merger is at all good for the viability of cycling.kingstongraham said:
But if (as seems likely) it ends up with Vingegaard, Evenepoel, Roglic and Pogacar all at different teams with decent money behind them, and also Evenepoel, Pogacar, Van Aert and Van Der Poel all at different teams, then we have some racing on our hands, don't we?andyrac said:It's an absolute 5hitshow.....and reflects badly on the sport, and the viability of the sport. Still relying on handouts from sponsors...
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Vingegaard would have just won it easily. Roglic might have finished second, but might not have done.kingstongraham said:I'd say he made the 2020 Tour pretty exciting, and him on a different team would have made the 2023 Vuelta more exciting.
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Time will tell but reports are that this is the case.kingstongraham said:"Slightly different"
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I just thought if I compared my situation when I was working on a contract basis to Harry Kane's, it was more than slightly different.pblakeney said:
Time will tell but reports are that this is the case.kingstongraham said:"Slightly different"
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Let's face it, if professional cyclists contracts could just be terminated without compensation, Chris Froome would have been living a somewhat different life the last couple of years.1
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I guess it comes down to the lawyer you use when negotiating.kingstongraham said:Let's face it, if professional cyclists contracts could just be terminated without compensation, Chris Froome would have been living a somewhat different life the last couple of years.
Top dogs will have top lawyers, lower tiers?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I might eat my words here but this still hasn't happened yet has it? Still very much speculation and the teams have only said (have they even said?) that they're talking to each other. No word of what happens to riders in event of a merger.kingstongraham said:If the riders have a contract, they can't just be told that it's over, surely. It's not like the team has gone bust.
They'd need to settle with the riders based on the future value of the contract even if they wanted no transfer fee.
Agree if it's bad if it goes through in the manner you suggest but at the moment it smacks of journos trying to get the inside scoop for clicks in the quiet part of the season. So far we've had Remco to Ineos, Ineos Quickstep merger, Jumbo Apple, Jumbo Amazon, Jumbo Apple and Amazon, Jumbo Quickstep merger, Jumbo Quickstep merger with added Amazon and or Apple, Alaphillipe's contract terminated, all QS contracts voided... off the top of my head in the last couple of weeks. None of them have been confirmed so far.2 -
I hope sokingstongraham said:
But if (as seems likely) it ends up with Vingegaard, Evenepoel, Roglic and Pogacar all at different teams with decent money behind them, and also Evenepoel, Pogacar, Van Aert and Van Der Poel all at different teams, then we have some racing on our hands, don't we?andyrac said:It's an absolute 5hitshow.....and reflects badly on the sport, and the viability of the sport. Still relying on handouts from sponsors...
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Sounds like classic Lefevere 'negotiation' to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he is behind any leaks / rumours.1
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What a weird mess"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1
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Some sort of ruse huh .....Pross said:Sounds like classic Lefevere 'negotiation' to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he is behind any leaks / rumours.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Would be quite something if nothing happened.............
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roscoe said:
Would be quite something if nothing happened.............
It's clear something is happening.1 -
Small race spoiler
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Nicely said that man. Those are the people I feel really sorry for, the riders and probably more so the lower paid staff who are likely to be out of work.
Yes it may all well end up we have a nice even field for competition, but I wonder what the cost will be to the various team members.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
The riders are mostly protected by UCI rules, the current contracts should be paid if they can find a spot. I'm sure many teams would happily pick up free agents with salaries paid for it. It's a knock on impact on other rides in other teams that don't have a contract. And of course the support staff,.mechanics, etc...daniel_b said:Nicely said that man. Those are the people I feel really sorry for, the riders and probably more so the lower paid staff who are likely to be out of work.
Yes it may all well end up we have a nice even field for competition, but I wonder what the cost will be to the various team members.0 -
Maybe I am just a hard nosed bastard but I am a little taken aback by how sensitive and soft everyone's being about the prospect of job losses.
Since January my firm has cut headcount by 1/3 and we find out when they don't turn up for 2 weeks and then the Friday evening HR email goes around.
Sh!t like this happens in downturns.1 -
I guess it's because it's primarily the low paid behind the scenes workers in the teams that will suffer the most whilst the (relatively) well paid riders and bosses will mostly come out of this just fine2
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For me the bit that's sad is that it's the best cycling team in the world being unable survive without a merger. Imagine Manchester City and Arsenal saying "we're having to merge because we can't find any sponsors".rick_chasey said:Maybe I am just a hard nosed censored but I am a little taken aback by how sensitive and soft everyone's being about the prospect of job losses.
Since January my firm has cut headcount by 1/3 and we find out when they don't turn up for 2 weeks and then the Friday evening HR email goes around.
Sh!t like this happens in downturns.
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Well yeah, funnily enough, the biggest earners for the business here have survived.r0bh said:I guess it's because it's primarily the low paid behind the scenes workers in the teams that will suffer the most whilst the (relatively) well paid riders and bosses will mostly come out of this just fine
That kinda how it works. It sucks, sure, not pretending their jobs or livelihoods don't matter, but it's like this all over the place at the moment.
I'm helping out more than a few mates with CVs and how to run their job searches etc. It's brutal out there.0 -
Exactly.joeyhalloran said:
For me the bit that's sad is that it's the best cycling team in the world being unable survive without a merger. Imagine Manchester City and Arsenal saying "we're having to merge because we can't find any sponsors".rick_chasey said:Maybe I am just a hard nosed censored but I am a little taken aback by how sensitive and soft everyone's being about the prospect of job losses.
Since January my firm has cut headcount by 1/3 and we find out when they don't turn up for 2 weeks and then the Friday evening HR email goes around.
Sh!t like this happens in downturns.
Professional cycle racing in 2024 could be pretty bleak.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.2 -
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Wrong thread for that discussion.rick_chasey said:It's all gonna be bleak in 24!
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Or Red Bull Racing merging with McLaren.......joeyhalloran said:
For me the bit that's sad is that it's the best cycling team in the world being unable survive without a merger. Imagine Manchester City and Arsenal saying "we're having to merge because we can't find any sponsors".rick_chasey said:Maybe I am just a hard nosed censored but I am a little taken aback by how sensitive and soft everyone's being about the prospect of job losses.
Since January my firm has cut headcount by 1/3 and we find out when they don't turn up for 2 weeks and then the Friday evening HR email goes around.
Sh!t like this happens in downturns.
It doesn't happen in a well run/ financed sport. But it will happen again as nobody wants, or is unable to do anything.All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."0 -
Maybe a Belgian glue company just can't compete with an oil country who doesn't care about value.0
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Things go around in circles.
The early 90's saw a depression and then again in the late 90's.
Things didn't really take off until the Armstrong years and then there was a further depression and black clouds over the whole sport following that era which took considerable time to disperse with numerous positive tests amongst the stars just to dampen the sparks of recovery for the next few years.
I really don't think that the current situation is anything near that or that 'bleak'.
I Presume Amazon are jumping on the Sepp Kuss success which shows a huge naivety as I don't think Sepp wants to be a team leader nor wants to be a GC contender. Yes, I realise there are other Americans in the fold but they are an unknown as potential GC winners and it has to be GC winners, few yanks would know much cycling outside The toor de Free-ance let alone the classics.
I also don't think Sepp will win another GT.
Do we want the might of Amazon with all it's financial power pushing up wages and budgets to levels that are unsustainable? Would their presence be transient anyway?
Would a Jumbo-Visma/Amazon team be just unbeatable? We have to be careful what we wish for.
The US sponsorship interest in cycling with Lemond, LA, Landis etc has always been transient. There will be no change there.
Did the Lotto-QS sponsors bank on a GC win and failing is instrumental in not securing sponsorship? If the sponsorship of the sport is really that fickle, then cracks will appear.
Or is this simply part of an economic downturn coupled with increasing budgets and astronomical wage commitment, or a bit of all 3?
Economic downturns often follow buoyancy that was paper thin. Cycling is no different and inextricably linked.
The press are harping on about the 4 major contenders being amongst 4 teams and the mouth watering prospect of 4 riders lining up for the TdF next year. But we know the reality would be something different. If say Remco decides he can't win it in the face of the opposition, Roglic will be 34 soon, Remco in a steadily weakening INEOS squad(?), then add an accident to a protagonist and suddenly there is no perfect storm, merely a damp flannel.
Must go, sorry to ramble; the rollers are calling.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Understandable rumours swirling that Mørkøv will be heading to Astana0
