Ronde van Vlaanderen 2023 *Spoilers* thread
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For aging mamils pootling around at 28kph average aero really doesn't kick in till your over 35kph so it's going to be hard to judge unless your a CURRENT decent ameteur racer . Which is why weight is a better route of concern than aero for a lot of sportive types
Aero gains maybe huge for the pro peloton..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Simon from GCN recently did a video where he compared his old pro team bike to a flash new Aeroad. The difference was pretty major. That said, I'd have liked to see the old bike tested with some decent, deep wheels. Suspect the gap would have been much smaller.0
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Was going to quote that video. He retested using new wheels and the gap was smaller but still there.mrb123 said:Simon from GCN recently did a video where he compared his old pro team bike to a flash new Aeroad. The difference was pretty major. That said, I'd have liked to see the old bike tested with some decent, deep wheels. Suspect the gap would have been much smaller.
I can tell from my own experience that new equipment is faster (as an early adopter of road bike TTs!). The gains in aero are significant, and it isn't just bikes, it's also clothing, narrower bars and there is non aero stuff like rolling resistance, better gears, better knowledge on how to spend your effort and that of your team's.
In athletics & swimming new tech & training improvements see records fall over time, so why should cycling be any different? The fact we are expecting it not to shows how distorted doping made things, but I know I'd be 2kmh slower on a 90s Trek than a modern bike!1 -
Since it was me that raised the weight and aero I’d like if my other suggestion of nutrition wasn’t forgotten about. Scientific training could be added too.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
That's huge ! You confident about that?super_davo said:mrb123 said:Simon from GCN recently did a video where he compared his old pro team bike to a flash new Aeroad. The difference was pretty major. That said, I'd have liked to see the old bike tested with some decent, deep wheels. Suspect the gap would have been much smaller.
but I know I'd be 2kmh slower on a 90s Trek than a modern bike!
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Hasn't the change in finishing line changed the way MSR is ridden meaning there is more incentive to ride it as fast as possible?1
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Well I'm 1.5kmh faster on my modern aero bike than my (nice for its time) 10 year old bike on most of our local TT courses for the same power output so as confident as you can get!mididoctors said:
That's huge ! You confident about that?super_davo said:mrb123 said:Simon from GCN recently did a video where he compared his old pro team bike to a flash new Aeroad. The difference was pretty major. That said, I'd have liked to see the old bike tested with some decent, deep wheels. Suspect the gap would have been much smaller.
but I know I'd be 2kmh slower on a 90s Trek than a modern bike!
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That's remarkablesuper_davo said:
Well I'm 1.5kmh faster on my modern aero bike than my (nice for its time) 10 year old bike on most of our local TT courses for the same power output so as confident as you can get!mididoctors said:
That's huge ! You confident about that?super_davo said:mrb123 said:Simon from GCN recently did a video where he compared his old pro team bike to a flash new Aeroad. The difference was pretty major. That said, I'd have liked to see the old bike tested with some decent, deep wheels. Suspect the gap would have been much smaller.
but I know I'd be 2kmh slower on a 90s Trek than a modern bike!
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
This is a screenshot of 2012 two minutes 30 into the Poggio. Still pretty bunched up. Agnoli is just around the corner. This year they got to this point 20 seconds faster. And at this point Pogacar attacks. Nibali doesn't attack until 2m15 later.phreak said:
I've just watched it, and before the first bend in the road Agnoli had attacked for Liquigas, so I suspect that they were going as quickly as they could up it rather than soft pedalling, especially when the leading 3 attacked about halfway up. We're talking 2 of the best classics riders of their generation in Cancellara and Nibali and I'm not sure they'd get a look in against the big three today.
Some time ago (2013 probably) Tim Kerrison said that performances will eventually surpass the doped era. It's not quite come to pass yet. Pantani's Alpe d'Huez time is still a long way ahead.
As for doping chat though, it's remarkable that the journalists who used to say how important it was to hold teams to account have little interest in questioning a rider whose team is essentially a merger of Lampre with Saunier Duval's management (who should be with Bruyneel).
This is a criticism of the media not Pog, although it may be his greatest achievement. But still behind Merckx who managed to brush three positive tests under history's carpet.Twitter: @RichN952 -
It's natural that riders will be surpassing the times of the bad old days. Aside from anything else, it's actually kind of ridiculous to assume that those times somehow represent the pinnacle of possible performance, given that they were set by representatives of an incredibly small group who self-selected for willingness to do a load of drugs. The amount of talent that never got near to pro racing just because of that must be astounding.Warning No formatter is installed for the format1
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Talent spotting improvement s and scope alone would favour we are looking at better cyclist
...my take still.is
"we watched the fastest ronde ever. won by the greatest cyclist who ever lived "
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Sucks...
(Not that one, remember. The fast downhill one)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Cycling now has wider reach and better pay even for domestiques at World Tour level. This will no doubt lead to better athletes from a wider pool choosing cycling over being pushed to other sports.
As a long time follower of MMA it's gone from people who did martial arts to genetically gifted athletes. Mostly based on money. Being technically good more often than not fails against someone who can just smash you based on raw physicality.
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I like the use of the term 'in the doping era' as if cyclists hadn't been doping since the 1930's (before the 1990's and up to say 2006/Operacion puerto) when it was considered as 'innovative' and undoubtedly, doping caused Tom Simpsons death.
Interestingly, WADA was established in 1999 yet didn't really seem to have teeth until the LA scandal.
So when does the 'doping era' officially start and end?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
It started well before the 1930s.pinno said:I like the use of the term 'in the doping era' as if cyclists hadn't been doping since the 1930's (before the 1990's and up to say 2006/Operacion puerto) when it was considered as 'innovative' and undoubtedly, doping caused Tom Simpsons death.
Interestingly, WADA was established in 1999 yet didn't really seem to have teeth until the LA scandal.
So when does the 'doping era' officially start and end?
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Fine. Still doesn't answer the question.Dorset_Boy said:
It started well before the 1930s.pinno said:I like the use of the term 'in the doping era' as if cyclists hadn't been doping since the 1930's (before the 1990's and up to say 2006/Operacion puerto) when it was considered as 'innovative' and undoubtedly, doping caused Tom Simpsons death.
Interestingly, WADA was established in 1999 yet didn't really seem to have teeth until the LA scandal.
So when does the 'doping era' officially start and end?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
When EPO made taking drugs absolutely necessary to compete.pinno said:I like the use of the term 'in the doping era' as if cyclists hadn't been doping since the 1930's (before the 1990's and up to say 2006/Operacion puerto) when it was considered as 'innovative' and undoubtedly, doping caused Tom Simpsons death.
Interestingly, WADA was established in 1999 yet didn't really seem to have teeth until the LA scandal.
So when does the 'doping era' officially start and end?1 -
This is not true. A slower rider will save more time by going to an aero bike over a 100 mile sportive than a faster rider will. The 'watt saving' will be lower at a slower speed but the time saved will be higher as they're getting the 'watt saving' for longer.mididoctors said:For aging mamils pootling around at 28kph average aero really doesn't kick in till your over 35kph so it's going to be hard to judge unless your a CURRENT decent ameteur racer . Which is why weight is a better route of concern than aero for a lot of sportive types
Aero gains maybe huge for the pro peloton...
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It's probably more accurate to call it the EPO era. It ran roughly from the introduction of EPO to the peloton in the early 90s to the introduction of the biological passport in 2008pinno said:I like the use of the term 'in the doping era' as if cyclists hadn't been doping since the 1930's (before the 1990's and up to say 2006/Operacion puerto) when it was considered as 'innovative' and undoubtedly, doping caused Tom Simpsons death.
Interestingly, WADA was established in 1999 yet didn't really seem to have teeth until the LA scandal.
So when does the 'doping era' officially start and end?Twitter: @RichN950 -
The doping era is really a proxy for the epo era in my mind"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm2
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Yep, that's what I refer to as the "bad old days". EPO was a game-changer. Donkeys flew.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
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Remember the incident when Bahrain-Victorius rider, Filip Maciejuk caused that mass pile up when he hit a puddle on the verge and veered across the front of the peloton?
He's just been banned for a month by the UCI for it.
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seems pretty reasonable! WTF was he doing out there0 -
Are all these timed for the world's ?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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A number of other riders had moved up in a similar way, but he left it late and hit the puddle resulting in the crash.shirley_basso said:
seems pretty reasonable! WTF was he doing out there0 -
Only taken them 4 months!1
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It'd take me four months of practise before I could keep a straight face watching that video and asking if he meant to do that.Pross said:Only taken them 4 months!
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