A bonailie, Nicola
Comments
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But I've explained why it isn't. And your claim that we might have been able to give even more to the NHS in some parallel universe where we didn't leave the EU (which only exists in the minds of a few Cake Stoppers) isn't relevant to my point.pinno said:
So you are saying that's it was okay to print bollox on the side of a bus because the NHS is getting more money than what was pledged by leaving the EU.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the bus
kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
...even though the lie was probably critical to the Brexit vote and we are no longer in the EU.
So by that logic - the logic which is that the wonderful Tories have given the NHS more than what was printed on the side of a bus, have you calculated:
1. The difference in the growth in the economy between being in the EU or out with the EU
2. The economic cost of leaving the EU
3. What budget the government could have given the NHS as an EU state
4. The difference ^
5. What the government could offer workers who are striking (obviously because any offers are based on economic forecast) if we were still in the EU
6. The value of CAP payments
7. The loss to key services of essential migrant workers
8. The full value of rebates
9. The value of EU Urban and Rural development/environmental funding to our economy and to communities?
No, I expect you haven't (and I haven't either) but using the binary: 'is the NHS getting more than the £350m per week promised by leaving the EU?' is utter bollox because that is separate to the lie and quite possibly, the govt. could have given the NHS more had our economic forecast been better as an EU member state.
I tell my daughters that I am taking them to Alton Towers.
They look forward to it for months.
We can't afford to go to Alton Towers so we don't go.
But it's okay, I took them to the local park and I bought them a lollipop. I dunno why they are unhappy, there's rides at the park and you can't get that sort of lollipop at Alton Towers."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm going to stop sending £136 to Virgin Media. Let's buy food instead.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
Sorry if you can't understand simple concepts.0 -
You've now gone for the Rick approach of being condescending rather than answer my point above. I'm not impressed.kingstongraham said:
I'm going to stop sending £136 to Virgin Media. Let's buy food instead.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
Sorry if you can't understand simple concepts."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
OK, describe what is wrong with my statement here, based on my having a deal with Virgin Media where I get a bill with £136 discounted every month by £56.Stevo_666 said:
You've now gone for the Rick approach of being condescending rather than answer my point above. I'm not impressed.kingstongraham said:
I'm going to stop sending £136 to Virgin Media. Let's buy food instead.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
Sorry if you can't understand simple concepts.
"I send £136 to Virgin Media every month. Let's buy food instead."
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It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So you know those tweets that people who should know better put out that say things like, if you reversed the fuel duty freeze this would pay for NHS/teacher/sexual harassment panda pay rises until the end of time?Stevo_666 said:
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those.
And you know how that's nonsense because it all goes into general taxation to pay for everything, only it doesn't because we run a deficit?
Can you spot the similarities?0 -
Yes I have read what you posted and I did read it several times because you posted the same old merry go round several times.Stevo_666 said:
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those.
Many people (including the purveyor of the message Bojo) admitted that it was a distortion of the fact but you continue on in Dominic Cummings style as if repetition of your lame, back pedaling argument will actually stick.
Some sh*t is just too runny to stick.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
As mentioned (by me and several others) the NHS budget increase, as it stands today, is almost entirely disassociated from leaving the EU. If you think the small percentage remaining (that is not accounted for by Jeremy Hunt’s statement in 2018) can be attributed to a Brexit dividend then perhaps show some evidence?Stevo_666 said:
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those.
You mentioned rationale, but you’re not applying any. Correlation does not equal causation, as you well know.
And for clarity, the side of bus statement was not factually inaccurate, but was structured in a way to misleading. It doesn’t hold water and it was supported by a proven liar. Of course you’ll carry on defending it, but I’m not sure what your motive is.
Shouldn’t you be focusing on what the Tories are doing well? It might save you time. The NHS budget increase was one of the few things - stop trying to shoehorn it into a Brexit argument.
* and apologies to the Scots, I know this isn’t the right thread *0 -
Accounting for inflation, what has the increase in NHS funding actually been since 2016.
Stevo, since your maths isn't great, that's over 6 years ago now.0 -
The outstanding payments still due to the EU dwarf the last few years increases and will continue for another 40-odd years.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Forces ahead in the polls.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-contest-kate-forbes-is-preferred-nicola-sturgeon-successor-among-voters-poll-shows-as-satisfaction-with-humza-yousaf-as-health-secretary-low-4041875
I think they might need to have different parties. This feels like a very broad coalition of views to be actually governing.0 -
Classic. Rated based in past performance, she wins, because she's not had any past performance.
Say it all.0 -
but if you are a single interest pressure group, or politician, your best hope of getting your way is to take over a political partykingstongraham said:Forces ahead in the polls.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-contest-kate-forbes-is-preferred-nicola-sturgeon-successor-among-voters-poll-shows-as-satisfaction-with-humza-yousaf-as-health-secretary-low-4041875
I think they might need to have different parties. This feels like a very broad coalition of views to be actually governing.0 -
I thought the SNP were a single issue party who incorporated other issues to get into power so they could get their way. Same theory, just bigger.surrey_commuter said:
but if you are a single interest pressure group, or politician, your best hope of getting your way is to take over a political partykingstongraham said:Forces ahead in the polls.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-contest-kate-forbes-is-preferred-nicola-sturgeon-successor-among-voters-poll-shows-as-satisfaction-with-humza-yousaf-as-health-secretary-low-4041875
I think they might need to have different parties. This feels like a very broad coalition of views to be actually governing.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You wilfully ignoring the facts because you're already convinced that it's a lie is what's lame. Try addressing my point about the amount put into to the NHS vs the EU contributions instead of the vague Eurobollox you've posted above.pinno said:
Yes I have read what you posted and I did read it several times because you posted the same old merry go round several times.Stevo_666 said:
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those.
Many people (including the purveyor of the message Bojo) admitted that it was a distortion of the fact but you continue on in Dominic Cummings style as if repetition of your lame, back pedaling argument will actually stick.
Some sh*t is just too runny to stick."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm just looking at the facts. Are you denying that the increase in the budget is less than the EU contributions?pinkbikini said:
As mentioned (by me and several others) the NHS budget increase, as it stands today, is almost entirely disassociated from leaving the EU. If you think the small percentage remaining (that is not accounted for by Jeremy Hunt’s statement in 2018) can be attributed to a Brexit dividend then perhaps show some evidence?Stevo_666 said:
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those.
You mentioned rationale, but you’re not applying any. Correlation does not equal causation, as you well know.
And for clarity, the side of bus statement was not factually inaccurate, but was structured in a way to misleading. It doesn’t hold water and it was supported by a proven liar. Of course you’ll carry on defending it, but I’m not sure what your motive is.
Shouldn’t you be focusing on what the Tories are doing well? It might save you time. The NHS budget increase was one of the few things - stop trying to shoehorn it into a Brexit argument.
* and apologies to the Scots, I know this isn’t the right thread *
Show me evidence that there is no link and you may have a point."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No. Stop deflecting.Stevo_666 said:
You wilfully ignoring the facts because you're already convinced that it's a lie is what's lame. Try addressing my point about the amount put into to the NHS vs the EU contributions instead of the vague Eurobollox you've posted above.pinno said:
Yes I have read what you posted and I did read it several times because you posted the same old merry go round several times.Stevo_666 said:
It's not about endorsing people' it's about whether what was said on the side of the bus as reasonable or not.pinno said:
It is a lie. It's not a narrative. I don't know how you endorse the odious, duplicitous Bojo's, Cummings and the Rees-Mogg (and his ERG cohort) weasels.Stevo_666 said:
I've explained why it isn't. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative, but there you go.kingstongraham said:
Take it to the relevant thread if you want to discuss Brexit for ever. You objected to the lie being called a lie and that's still a lie.Stevo_666 said:
The NHS budget increase is very relevant as it is what flows from the savings obtained from not contributing to the EU. It even said it on the side of the bus. I can see why you're reluctant to address the point however.kingstongraham said:
My thoughts are that the half of the writing on the bus that was not a lie was childishly simplistic.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you have. See the stats I posted upthread.kingstongraham said:
Stopped reading again?Stevo_666 said:
Not a case of confusion, I just wasn't stated on the side the bus - it would have looked a bit odd if they had. As I said above, saying that our contribution is £350m per week is technically correct provided that net was not mentioned - which it wasn't.kingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
This was not a gross/net confusion, it was just a big fat lie. HTH and surprised there is anyone so active on the Brexit thread who feels they can state they were not aware of this.
Also as mentioned above, the increase in NHS budget exceeds either the gross or the net amounts, so in term of delivering the NHS funding promise it was absolutely spot on.
Hence the reasonable statement in the side of the buskingstongraham said:It was not in line with our gross contributions. It was vaguely in line with the pre-rebate calculation of our gross contribution, which makes it meaningless as it did not refer to the amount we send to the EU in any way.
However what are your thoughts on the increase in the NHS budget exceeding both the net and gross amounts?
But as that was not the context in which you brought the bus up in this thread, it is entirely irrelevant. Bring it back in the Brexit thread if you like.
"The UK’s independent Statistics Authority said the EU membership fee of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is “not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year”.
"For Wales, the Boris Johnson Brexit bus lie was even more misleading because Wales received £245 million more from the EU than it contributed. "
Almost immediately after the referendum many Leave politicians admitted there was no £350 million a week going to the NHS.
This prompted a critical response from Sir David Norgrove, UK Statistics Chief, who said the then foreign secretary’s use of the £350 million figure was “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
"On 11th September, 2019, Boris Johnson appeared to accept the £350m a week was inaccurate...
Have you read what I posted above (several times) about gross vs net. And about the increase in the NHS budget exceeding either of those measures? Because it look like you're just ploughing on without taking any heed of those.
Many people (including the purveyor of the message Bojo) admitted that it was a distortion of the fact but you continue on in Dominic Cummings style as if repetition of your lame, back pedaling argument will actually stick.
Some sh*t is just too runny to stick.
The current contributions is both irrelevant and is hindsight.
We have established that the bus slogan was misleading and factually incorrect because it did not take into the fact that the rebate made the potential payments to the NHS at £280m.
In fact, you even said 'fair point'.
Sir David Norgrove, head of UK statistics said it was “a clear misuse of official statistics” but oh no, you know better than a man who is professionally employed to make that conclusion and was knighted for services to the low paid and the family justice system, as well as being a trustee of Amnesty International.
Norgrove was private secretary to M. Thatcher btw.
Don't you have a picture of her tattooed to your 4rse?
seanoconn - gruagach craic!1 -
No he’s got a portrait of William Hague tattooed on his arris. Two Northern soul mates.0
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Don’t feed the troll!
This was done to death at the time. Only one person in the world is suggesting this is either a new topic or not concluded.0 -
Ummmm...focuszing723 said:God I'm surprised at that news. I thought she'd see it to the bitter end.
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She'd just had enough - no other reason for leaving then...0
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Blimey0
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Husband released without charge (for now) apparently0
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I think of all the scandals he’s being investigated for this is the weakest. It might not stick according to the economist.0
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What else is he being investigated for?First.Aspect said:I think of all the scandals he’s being investigated for this is the weakest. It might not stick according to the economist.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I don't know. I just thought I'd take that from another thread to sound well informed.Stevo_666 said:
What else is he being investigated for?First.Aspect said:I think of all the scandals he’s being investigated for this is the weakest. It might not stick according to the economist.
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OK - in any event, this could be interestingFirst.Aspect said:
I don't know. I just thought I'd take that from another thread to sound well informed.Stevo_666 said:
What else is he being investigated for?First.Aspect said:I think of all the scandals he’s being investigated for this is the weakest. It might not stick according to the economist.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
