Boris Becker

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  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis
    very different... he was consistently very decent, but not a star... she won a major title, but then she's been very very mediocre ever since... probably lost more matches than she won, which takes some doing in tennis!

    hang on - 4 posts up you said he wasshyyte.

    which is it?shyyte or very decent?

    #confused
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    MattFalle said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis
    very different... he was consistently very decent, but not a star... she won a major title, but then she's been very very mediocre ever since... probably lost more matches than she won, which takes some doing in tennis!

    give her a couple years more of mid table mediocrity and you'll see.

    The Leicester City of tennis.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    ddraver said:

    MattFalle said:

    yes you did.


    Lies bigger than a Qatari trust fund!!
    personally we all thought it was one of your more insightful posts, bordering on genius.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,125
    MattFalle said:

    Right, serious question.

    Combine Becker & Graf's victories.

    More between them two alone than all British tennerists combined?


    British tennerists have won exactly 100 Grand Slam singles titles. Admittedly only nine of them were in the open era.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • MattFalle said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis
    very different... he was consistently very decent, but not a star... she won a major title, but then she's been very very mediocre ever since... probably lost more matches than she won, which takes some doing in tennis!

    give her a couple years more of mid table mediocrity and you'll see.

    The thing is that Axel Merckx was not mediocre... he has several top 10 finishes in monuments and classics... I seem to remember he did 2nd up the Alpe d'Huez at the Tour... won a stage at the Giro and was National Champion in Belgium (of all places)... he just wasn't a superstar...
    That's a bit different from rummaging in the top 100 of the female rankings... the equivalent would be to consistently making QF and SF in big tournaments
    left the forum March 2023
  • I would say Tim Henman is more like Axel Merckx... almost, but not quite there
    left the forum March 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,125
    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Yes, that is a good comparison indeed!
    left the forum March 2023
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Right, serious question.

    Combine Becker & Graf's victories.

    More between them two alone than all British tennerists combined?


    British tennerists have won exactly 100 Grand Slam singles titles. Admittedly only nine of them were in the open era.
    so 1968 to today, 9 GS' for British tennerists?

    B&G are on 28



    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    that can't be right - or can it?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    are British tennerists that bad?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,254
    RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
  • RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    left the forum March 2023
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,254

    RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
  • RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
    But he will do podiums... will Raducanu do semis and finals in major tournaments?
    left the forum March 2023
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,254

    RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
    But he will do podiums... will Raducanu do semis and finals in major tournaments?
    If Bernal gets over his injuries and returns to his previous form he will manage some podiums. Note this is far from certain. See Froome as a case in point.

    If Raducanu gets over her injuries and returns to her previous form, she will manage some semis and finals. Note this is far from certain. See numerous examples of talented sports people with bodies that don't work.
  • RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
    But he will do podiums... will Raducanu do semis and finals in major tournaments?
    If Bernal gets over his injuries and returns to his previous form he will manage some podiums. Note this is far from certain. See Froome as a case in point.

    If Raducanu gets over her injuries and returns to her previous form, she will manage some semis and finals. Note this is far from certain. See numerous examples of talented sports people with bodies that don't work.
    Froome is old... he was going to fade regardless.
    I guess my point is that she won a rather odd edition of the US Open... no real big names... the final was between two unseeded players. It was probably the result of one year of pandemic more than anything.
    I don't think she is that good, whereas I am sure Bernal is very good... nobody could stay with him in the mountains
    left the forum March 2023
  • RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
    But he will do podiums... will Raducanu do semis and finals in major tournaments?
    If Bernal gets over his injuries and returns to his previous form he will manage some podiums. Note this is far from certain. See Froome as a case in point.

    If Raducanu gets over her injuries and returns to her previous form, she will manage some semis and finals. Note this is far from certain. See numerous examples of talented sports people with bodies that don't work.
    Froome is old... he was going to fade regardless.
    I guess my point is that she won a rather odd edition of the US Open... no real big names... the final was between two unseeded players. It was probably the result of one year of pandemic more than anything.
    I don't think she is that good, whereas I am sure Bernal is very good... nobody could stay with him in the mountains
    IIRC the big names all got beaten before they had the chance to play Radacanu in the US Open. Barty and Swaitek both played, for example.

    I don't think there was a "Covid odd year" factor. Wimbledon 2021 panned out fairly normally, particularly on the women's side.

    Radacanu's US Open win is just one of those sporting outcomes at which you can only shake your head in wonder.

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,125
    MattFalle said:

    are British tennerists that bad?


    In recent years almost as bad as French Grand Tour riders I'm afraid
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,093
    edited December 2022

    RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
    But he will do podiums... will Raducanu do semis and finals in major tournaments?
    If Bernal gets over his injuries and returns to his previous form he will manage some podiums. Note this is far from certain. See Froome as a case in point.

    If Raducanu gets over her injuries and returns to her previous form, she will manage some semis and finals. Note this is far from certain. See numerous examples of talented sports people with bodies that don't work.
    Froome is old... he was going to fade regardless.
    I guess my point is that she won a rather odd edition of the US Open... no real big names... the final was between two unseeded players. It was probably the result of one year of pandemic more than anything.
    I don't think she is that good, whereas I am sure Bernal is very good... nobody could stay with him in the mountains
    IIRC the big names all got beaten before they had the chance to play Radacanu in the US Open. Barty and Swaitek both played, for example.

    I don't think there was a "Covid odd year" factor. Wimbledon 2021 panned out fairly normally, particularly on the women's side.

    Radacanu's US Open win is just one of those sporting outcomes at which you can only shake your head in wonder.

    But when you have both finalists not ranked, then you have to wonder what the form of the opponents was.
    I might be wrong, but even the other finalist didn't live up to the expectations?

    I think the Giro 2020 comparison is bang on
    left the forum March 2023
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,025
    edited December 2022

    RichN95. said:

    MattFalle said:

    Staying on Tennis... What's Raducanu's real worth? Is she a number one player... or a top 10 player or a top 20 player or not even that?

    Axel Merckx of tennis

    Tao Geoghehan Hart is a better comparison. One unexpected huge win during Covid lockdowns, which unlikely to be repeated.

    Ugo -she's currently ranked 78th. Peaked at 10th.
    Bernal would be better. Won young, showed potential, then had lots of injuries. Rest of career to follow. No one expected TGH to win anything else.
    No, Bernal is a star... he has already won 2 GTs and he will win more, if he recovers. I am not convinced Raducanu is a star.
    You also have to look at who they beat to the title... didn't she beat Berrettini's girlfriend in the semi and then another teenager in the final?
    Bernal won the tour with some random stage timing adjustments. His Giro win wasn't against the strongest line up. Unless Pogacar or Vingegaard fall off, he isn't going to win the tour again.
    But he will do podiums... will Raducanu do semis and finals in major tournaments?
    If Bernal gets over his injuries and returns to his previous form he will manage some podiums. Note this is far from certain. See Froome as a case in point.

    If Raducanu gets over her injuries and returns to her previous form, she will manage some semis and finals. Note this is far from certain. See numerous examples of talented sports people with bodies that don't work.
    Froome is old... he was going to fade regardless.
    I guess my point is that she won a rather odd edition of the US Open... no real big names... the final was between two unseeded players. It was probably the result of one year of pandemic more than anything.
    I don't think she is that good, whereas I am sure Bernal is very good... nobody could stay with him in the mountains
    IIRC the big names all got beaten before they had the chance to play Radacanu in the US Open. Barty and Swaitek both played, for example.

    I don't think there was a "Covid odd year" factor. Wimbledon 2021 panned out fairly normally, particularly on the women's side.

    Radacanu's US Open win is just one of those sporting outcomes at which you can only shake your head in wonder.

    But when you have both finalists not ranked, then you have to wonder what the form of the opponents was.
    I might be wrong, but even the other finalist didn't live up to the expectations?

    I think the Giro 2020 comparison is bang on
    Agreed re form. But the big guns were on form at Wimbledon a few weeks earlier, so there's nothing obviously Covid-related that was driving odd results overall in the summer of 2021. From the start of qualifying, so many planets needed to align for Radacanu to win that her victory was probably less likely than her being abducted by an alien Elvis impersonator. But it happened, and she'll always have that and the several $m that came with it. (Or at least what's left over if she gets good advisors.)

    Re the other finalist, in a two horse race, you always have a chance and it doesn't take much for the other horse to be a bit sub-par and then "fine margins" come into play.


  • Re the other finalist, in a two horse race, you always have a chance and it doesn't take much for the other horse to be a bit sub-par and then "fine margins" come into play.

    I mean, is it not the case that even the other finalist didn't live up to the expectations after the US Open?
    Is she also a bit of a one off wonder? and if so, what are the chances... other than a very sub standard field... for one reason or another?

    I mean Pereiro won a Tour de France, right? So, things happen when things don't quite work out...

    left the forum March 2023
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    unless the stars align, the wind blows in the right direction and she 17 Weetabix in the morning, she ain't gonnawinshit
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.


  • Re the other finalist, in a two horse race, you always have a chance and it doesn't take much for the other horse to be a bit sub-par and then "fine margins" come into play.

    I mean, is it not the case that even the other finalist didn't live up to the expectations after the US Open?
    Is she also a bit of a one off wonder? and if so, what are the chances... other than a very sub standard field... for one reason or another?

    I mean Pereiro won a Tour de France, right? So, things happen when things don't quite work out...

    I reckon one can over-think these things tbh. She beat what was there and that’s all you can do.

    Women’s tennis can be a bit weird. Seven of the last nineteen grand slams have been won by one hit wonders in grand slam terms: Jelena Ostapenko, Sloane Stevens, Caroline Wozniaki, Bianca Andreescu, Sofia Kenin, Barbora Krejicova, Emma Radacanu and Elena Rybakina.

    (Harsh on Rybakina perhaps as she won Wimbledon this year and so only failed to follow up once so far.)

    And before anyone tells me, some of those on the list have won other stuff below grand slam level.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,252
    .
    MattFalle said:

    unless the stars align, the wind blows in the right direction and she 17 Weetabix in the morning, she ain't gonnawinshit

    This. The revolving door of coaches is a v. bad sign. I sense more Vogue than centre court in her future.

    Thinking about it, Boris Becker could do with some coaching work.

    On which topic, he'd have won more if the tennis powers that be hadn't decided to slow the balls and courts down. The game had gone serve, return, volley, repeat, but now its even more boring. I can get up, go for a quick shower and still get back for the end of the rally.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,125



    I reckon one can over-think these things tbh. She beat what was there and that’s all you can do.

    Women’s tennis can be a bit weird. Seven of the last nineteen grand slams have been won by one hit wonders in grand slam terms: Jelena Ostapenko, Sloane Stevens, Caroline Wozniaki, Bianca Andreescu, Sofia Kenin, Barbora Krejicova, Emma Radacanu and Elena Rybakina.

    (Harsh on Rybakina perhaps as she won Wimbledon this year and so only failed to follow up once so far.)

    And before anyone tells me, some of those on the list have won other stuff below grand slam level.


    It was also during Covid which had tennis players confined to hotel rooms for over a year. Radacanu was fresh on the circuit was probably a lot fresher mentally.

    Time will tell if it was like Tao at the the Giro or Froome at the 2011 Vuelta. (I think Tao has GT top 10s in him still). I'm thinking Cunego at the Giro - he has better palmares than people remember.

    Either way the ludicrous hype when she won wasn't really her doing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,125
    Going back to Becker. He was one of several good players back then - Edberg, Lendl, Wilander, McEnroe etc. He had boyish charisma. But that generation has been blown away by the Federer, Nadal, Djokovic era*. Becker kept relevant by being Djokovic's coach.

    *of course that era for British fans was the big 4, with Murray an equal, like when the French put Froome, NIbali, Contador and Pinot on their promotions
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Re federer, nadal and Djokovic, their longevity is the really impressive thing. Borg was burnt out mentally in his mid 20s and going on at the top level past 30 was quite rare even in the 90s. Even Jimmy Connors (the old man of his era) was done with winning grand slams by 31.

    Medical treatments have doubtless improved and I think the top players don’t play as much these days.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    seems he's found something to do in his sparetime this morning


    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.