The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

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Comments

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    rjsterry said:

    First.Aspect said:

    davebradswmb said:

    Pross said:

    davebradswmb said:

    pblakeney said:

    Possibly in the sunlit fantasy world.
    Not so much in pissing January.

    I made it into work on my bike this morning, despite the pissing rain. People used to make it into work before there were cars. The bike is a viable alternative to cars for most commutes, not using a bike is a choice.
    When you are in your late 60s with some kind of health issues remember it was you that said this. People used to generally live and work in the same place but that is rarely the case these days, people with disabilities and health issues used to also be pretty much excluded from being able to work. Then what if you do a job such as a care worker where you are covering maybe 50 miles or more in a day visiting various people, often without sufficient time to even drive between appointments. What if you are a construction worker who has been lugging stuff around all day on a site 30 miles from home or a shift worker finishing a 12 hour shift and having a 20 mile bike ride home.

    Not everything in life is black and white so don't be so sanctimonious. I used to cycle a 38 mile round trip to work, that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to be able to. Lots more people could do it but to suggest it's viable for most commutes is a stretch.
    I am in my early 60s and in good health, partly because I cycle to work. I expect to be in good health well into my 80s, by which time I probably shouldn't be driving a car.

    Much of your second paragraph is devoted to exceptionism, most commutes are less than 5 miles and most people start put one they get to work, a bicycle is a viable option for most commutes. If cars weren't an option there would be far more people doing shorter commutes, cars give people the freedom to live a long way from their workplace, to the detriment of the planet.
    Do you think people should move house when they move jobs?
    Depends on the job. Doesn't seem that unreasonable if the job requires you to be nearby - e.g. any kind of on call service. But again we all seem to be stuck on absolutism. If you can think of one case where it won't work then write off the idea for everyone.
    You aren't advocating a moderate approach of merely encouraging active travel and public transport are you? Outrageous.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    Something a bit more forthright than encourage, but I guess so.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    First.Aspect said:

    davebradswmb said:

    Pross said:

    davebradswmb said:

    pblakeney said:

    Possibly in the sunlit fantasy world.
    Not so much in pissing January.

    I made it into work on my bike this morning, despite the pissing rain. People used to make it into work before there were cars. The bike is a viable alternative to cars for most commutes, not using a bike is a choice.
    When you are in your late 60s with some kind of health issues remember it was you that said this. People used to generally live and work in the same place but that is rarely the case these days, people with disabilities and health issues used to also be pretty much excluded from being able to work. Then what if you do a job such as a care worker where you are covering maybe 50 miles or more in a day visiting various people, often without sufficient time to even drive between appointments. What if you are a construction worker who has been lugging stuff around all day on a site 30 miles from home or a shift worker finishing a 12 hour shift and having a 20 mile bike ride home.

    Not everything in life is black and white so don't be so sanctimonious. I used to cycle a 38 mile round trip to work, that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to be able to. Lots more people could do it but to suggest it's viable for most commutes is a stretch.
    I am in my early 60s and in good health, partly because I cycle to work. I expect to be in good health well into my 80s, by which time I probably shouldn't be driving a car.

    Much of your second paragraph is devoted to exceptionism, most commutes are less than 5 miles and most people start put one they get to work, a bicycle is a viable option for most commutes. If cars weren't an option there would be far more people doing shorter commutes, cars give people the freedom to live a long way from their workplace, to the detriment of the planet.
    Do you think people should move house when they move jobs?
    That could have been awkward. I've worked in 5 cities in 15 years.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    To play devil's advocate, that sort of flexibility is a recent phenomenon. What we take for granted might not always be possible in the future.

    As a thought experiment, what would people do if they could only travel, say, 10 miles per day for work?

    Suddenly, the future might look very different, and very hard choices might have to be made.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    davebradswmb said:

    Pross said:

    davebradswmb said:

    pblakeney said:

    Possibly in the sunlit fantasy world.
    Not so much in pissing January.

    I made it into work on my bike this morning, despite the pissing rain. People used to make it into work before there were cars. The bike is a viable alternative to cars for most commutes, not using a bike is a choice.
    When you are in your late 60s with some kind of health issues remember it was you that said this. People used to generally live and work in the same place but that is rarely the case these days, people with disabilities and health issues used to also be pretty much excluded from being able to work. Then what if you do a job such as a care worker where you are covering maybe 50 miles or more in a day visiting various people, often without sufficient time to even drive between appointments. What if you are a construction worker who has been lugging stuff around all day on a site 30 miles from home or a shift worker finishing a 12 hour shift and having a 20 mile bike ride home.

    Not everything in life is black and white so don't be so sanctimonious. I used to cycle a 38 mile round trip to work, that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to be able to. Lots more people could do it but to suggest it's viable for most commutes is a stretch.
    I am in my early 60s and in good health, partly because I cycle to work. I expect to be in good health well into my 80s, by which time I probably shouldn't be driving a car.

    Much of your second paragraph is devoted to exceptionism, most commutes are less than 5 miles and most people start put one they get to work, a bicycle is a viable option for most commutes. If cars weren't an option there would be far more people doing shorter commutes, cars give people the freedom to live a long way from their workplace, to the detriment of the planet.
    I don’t think people are choosing to live long distances from their workplace. It is usually a case of them living somewhere that’s the best they can afford within a distance where they can reasonably get to work in some way. Times have changes massively over the last 50 years. A lot of people used to go to work at somewhere local straight from school and often stayed there until they retired. My parents didn’t drive until I was about 9 or 10 so other than an occasional trip to the beach or city by train everything we did was in walking distance (or we would very occasionally use a bus). It was a bit hard to continue that when the factory they’d worked in was demolished for a new shopping centre.

    My mum kept a local job (she eventually became a care worker doing the sort of trips I mentioned above) but my dad had to move to a job 10 miles away where he was often working 16 hour days outside public transport times so had to learn to drive in his mid 40s.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    briantrumpet said:

    To play devil's advocate, that sort of flexibility is a recent phenomenon. What we take for granted might not always be possible in the future.

    As a thought experiment, what would people do if they could only travel, say, 10 miles per day for work?

    Suddenly, the future might look very different, and very hard choices might have to be made.

    Retire.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • davebradswmb
    davebradswmb Posts: 545
    Pross said:

    davebradswmb said:

    pblakeney said:

    Possibly in the sunlit fantasy world.
    Not so much in pissing January.

    I made it into work on my bike this morning, despite the pissing rain. People used to make it into work before there were cars. The bike is a viable alternative to cars for most commutes, not using a bike is a choice.
    When you are in your late 60s with some kind of health issues remember it was you that said this. People used to generally live and work in the same place but that is rarely the case these days, people with disabilities and health issues used to also be pretty much excluded from being able to work. Then what if you do a job such as a care worker where you are covering maybe 50 miles or more in a day visiting various people, often without sufficient time to even drive between appointments. What if you are a construction worker who has been lugging stuff around all day on a site 30 miles from home or a shift worker finishing a 12 hour shift and having a 20 mile bike ride home.

    Not everything in life is black and white so don't be so sanctimonious. I used to cycle a 38 mile round trip to work, that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to be able to. Lots more people could do it but to suggest it's viable for most commutes is a stretch.
    I am in my early 60s and in good health, partly because I cycle to work. I expect to be in good health well into my 80s, by which time I probably shouldn't be driving a car.

    Much of your second paragraph is devoted to exceptions, but in a world without cars care workers wouldn't have to travel 50 miles for work (surely a very rare anyway?), and construction workers would have digs close to the site. Most commutes are less than 5 miles and most people stay put once they get to work, therefore a bicycle is a viable option for most commutes. If cars weren't an option there would be far more people doing shorter commutes, cars give people the freedom to live a long way from their workplace, to the detriment of the planet.
  • davebradswmb
    davebradswmb Posts: 545
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,222
    davebradswmb said:

    Agree with your last two posts. You're never going to stop all car journeys, they will be the most efficient way to get from A to B in some circumstances. But according to Gov.uk 71% of car journeys are under 5 miles, and I would wager that in at least 50% of those circumstances, they are not. And how much better would the roads flow for everyone if there were a third less cars on the road....
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    davebradswmb said:


    I've actually thought that with Exeter - it's bad enough at rush hour already, but I think there are something like 4000 regular bike commuters these days... put just half of those in a car and add them to the queues, and it would be carnage. Would actually be quite funny, for just one day.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    @surrey_commuter

    Bracing pics as requested. Not easy to see as the cables are a similar colour to the tree but you should be able to see the 'X' pattern of the 2 main cables.


    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Anyone know the story behind the Britishvolt collapse?
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    rick_chasey said:

    Anyone know the story behind the Britishvolt collapse?

    Sounds like it might have been built on sand:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishvolt
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    Depressing that the UK can't get its act together to be part of one of the most high growth high demand industries in the world. I work for a client in this sector and they ruled out UK manufacturing at a very early stage. I don't sense that it was a very difficult decision between the UK and Anywhereelseland.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    rick_chasey said:

    Anyone know the story behind the Britishvolt collapse?

    Developers without money.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    edited January 2023
    Looks like the investors have lost around 95% based on the potential that's mentioned in the news.

    A bloke I know went to work for them a year ago - left a very safe job as head of tax for the UK arm of one of the big car companies. Hopefully he didn't bet a big part of his package in stock or options....might drop him a line and see what's going on.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    Nice bracing, BTW, @Stevo_666 . Looks like that ought to stop the separate trunks from splitting off. Good to hang Christmas lights from too.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    briantrumpet said:

    Nice bracing, BTW, @Stevo_666 . Looks like that ought to stop the separate trunks from splitting off. Good to hang Christmas lights from too.

    Thanks Brian, although I can't take any credit for it apart from paying the bill. Those lads earned their money as it looked pretty precarious, especially when reducing the height of the top part (they turned up with what looked like full on mountaineering gear). It was also one of those brass monkey days in December so surprised they managed to do it without losing a digit or two.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    edited January 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Nice bracing, BTW, @Stevo_666 . Looks like that ought to stop the separate trunks from splitting off. Good to hang Christmas lights from too.

    Thanks Brian, although I can't take any credit for it apart from paying the bill. Those lads earned their money as it looked pretty precarious, especially when reducing the height of the top part (they turned up with what looked like full on mountaineering gear). It was also one of those brass monkey days in December so surprised they managed to do it without losing a digit or two.
    I imagine being perched atop a gently swaying tree with a running chainsaw focuses the mind somewhat.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Nice bracing, BTW, @Stevo_666 . Looks like that ought to stop the separate trunks from splitting off. Good to hang Christmas lights from too.

    Thanks Brian, although I can't take any credit for it apart from paying the bill. Those lads earned their money as it looked pretty precarious, especially when reducing the height of the top part (they turned up with what looked like full on mountaineering gear). It was also one of those brass monkey days in December so surprised they managed to do it without losing a digit or two.
    I imagine being perched atop a gently swaying tree with a running chainsaw focuses the mind somewhat.
    That, and the knowledge that it would cost them if they dropped any of the branches onto either garage roof.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    The law of unintended consequences applied to ULEZ :)
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/drivers-using-classic-cars-beat-sadiq-khans-ulez-charges/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Stevo_666 said:

    The law of unintended consequences applied to ULEZ :)
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/drivers-using-classic-cars-beat-sadiq-khans-ulez-charges/

    You mean maintaining a classic car as a money saving device? :D

  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    The law of unintended consequences applied to ULEZ :)
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/drivers-using-classic-cars-beat-sadiq-khans-ulez-charges/

    You mean maintaining a classic car as a money saving device? :D

    Anyone who owns an old motor and has driven it in heavy traffic in all weathers will know it’s the worst idea ever.
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,928
    Yeah, I can think of better ways of avoiding ULEZ than spending £4k on a 50 year old Saab that is in such a bad state that the mechanic refuses to work on it.

    And anyone spending £170k on a 52 year old range rover in order to avoid a £12 toll to drive around London needs their head seeing to.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    The law of unintended consequences applied to ULEZ :)
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/drivers-using-classic-cars-beat-sadiq-khans-ulez-charges/

    You mean maintaining a classic car as a money saving device? :D

    Seems to be what's catching on. Oh to be a city dweller.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    carbonclem said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    The law of unintended consequences applied to ULEZ :)
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/drivers-using-classic-cars-beat-sadiq-khans-ulez-charges/

    You mean maintaining a classic car as a money saving device? :D

    Anyone who owns an old motor and has driven it in heavy traffic in all weathers will know it’s the worst idea ever.
    Paying £12.50 every time you move your car isn't that best an idea either tbh.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    monkimark said:

    Yeah, I can think of better ways of avoiding ULEZ than spending £4k on a 50 year old Saab that is in such a bad state that the mechanic refuses to work on it.

    And anyone spending £170k on a 52 year old range rover in order to avoid a £12 toll to drive around London needs their head seeing to.

    why does it have to be ashitter?

    no understand.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,405
    monkimark said:

    Yeah, I can think of better ways of avoiding ULEZ than spending £4k on a 50 year old Saab that is in such a bad state that the mechanic refuses to work on it.

    And anyone spending £170k on a 52 year old range rover in order to avoid a £12 toll to drive around London needs their head seeing to.

    The Range Rover is probably for one of those nasty rich people who can afford an expensive car but don't fancy paying the ULEZ.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    Isn't buying and using an old runaround more environmentally friendly than crapping it amd buying an eMini with a 15 mile range that weighs 2 tons and cost the lives of 8 miners in China to get the lithium for the battery?
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,928
    If you gave me £170k and sent me off to find a car that didn't incur a ULEZ charge, I'd be pretty unlikely to come back with a 1971 range rover.

    If that's how they want to spend their riches, I don't much care. Just seems very unlikely that anyone would doing that to avoid ULEZ.

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