The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

kingstongraham

I'm sure I read that the expanded ULEZ is projected to earn nothing from 2027 onwards.

kingstongraham

I've got a feeling that car enthusiasts who read The Telegraph aren't his target demographic.

photonic69

focuszing723 said:

Electric motors in the wheels, that does make sense.

Electric motors are fantastical, utterly fantastical.

Electric motors in wheels are a 'nice' idea as it frees up the whole design of the car so you can start with what is basically a flat platform made of chassis and batteries combined. You then just build on top of that whatever shape you want. Car, van, people carrier etc. The downside is that motors in wheels add a lot to the unsprung weight of the wheels and this can dramatically affect handling and ride comfort etc.
If motors become small enough and light enough and still produce the same torque then it becomes viable.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Maybe it's Khan's poll tax, sorry, 'community car charge'.

Well see at the next mayoral elections. Hopefully he has annoyed enough Londoners and cost them enough money by then that he gets booted out.

I remember Red Ken's logic when he first introduced it which was that nobody driving into central london was going to vote for him anyway

Sadiq does not seem to be so good at counting votes

92% of vehicles already comply. Would seem to be enough to gain a majority. There's also the small issue of teh Onservatives putting people forward like Shaun Bailey

Let's see.

Although as we've seen, the risk of scope creep will be ever present. Once he's reached his geographical limits then its quite possible he will start tightening up on what is compliant.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Maybe it's Khan's poll tax, sorry, 'community car charge'.

Well see at the next mayoral elections. Hopefully he has annoyed enough Londoners and cost them enough money by then that he gets booted out.

I remember Red Ken's logic when he first introduced it which was that nobody driving into central london was going to vote for him anyway

Sadiq does not seem to be so good at counting votes

92% of vehicles already comply. Would seem to be enough to gain a majority. There's also the small issue of teh Onservatives putting people forward like Shaun Bailey

Let's see.

Although as we've seen, the risk of scope creep will be ever present. Once he's reached his geographical limits then its quite possible he will start tightening up on what is compliant.

Oh no, less polluting cars in London.

In 2019, in Greater London, the equivalent of between 3,600 to 4,100 deaths were estimated to be attributable to air pollution, considering that health effects exist even at very low levels. This calculation is for deaths from all causes including respiratory, lung cancer and cardiovascular deaths.

https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-and-strategies/environment-and-climate-change/environment-publications/health-burden-air-pollution-london

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Maybe it's Khan's poll tax, sorry, 'community car charge'.

Well see at the next mayoral elections. Hopefully he has annoyed enough Londoners and cost them enough money by then that he gets booted out.

I remember Red Ken's logic when he first introduced it which was that nobody driving into central london was going to vote for him anyway

Sadiq does not seem to be so good at counting votes

92% of vehicles already comply. Would seem to be enough to gain a majority. There's also the small issue of teh Onservatives putting people forward like Shaun Bailey

Let's see.

Although as we've seen, the risk of scope creep will be ever present. Once he's reached his geographical limits then its quite possible he will start tightening up on what is compliant.

Oh no, less polluting cars in London.

In 2019, in Greater London, the equivalent of between 3,600 to 4,100 deaths were estimated to be attributable to air pollution, considering that health effects exist even at very low levels. This calculation is for deaths from all causes including respiratory, lung cancer and cardiovascular deaths.

https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-and-strategies/environment-and-climate-change/environment-publications/health-burden-air-pollution-london

As you can see from my post upthread, it depends whose stats you use. Tbf at least you didn't cut and paste didn't from Twitter.

That said, if pollution is your only priority then why not ban all cars from London now? Nice clean air at a stroke.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Maybe it's Khan's poll tax, sorry, 'community car charge'.

Well see at the next mayoral elections. Hopefully he has annoyed enough Londoners and cost them enough money by then that he gets booted out.

I remember Red Ken's logic when he first introduced it which was that nobody driving into central london was going to vote for him anyway

Sadiq does not seem to be so good at counting votes

What about London polling makes you think labour fear Tories in any way?

Londoners were responsible for Johnson's rise up the political ranks.

That's quite a long time ago now.

Has the demographic changed that much?

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Maybe it's Khan's poll tax, sorry, 'community car charge'.

Well see at the next mayoral elections. Hopefully he has annoyed enough Londoners and cost them enough money by then that he gets booted out.

I remember Red Ken's logic when he first introduced it which was that nobody driving into central london was going to vote for him anyway

Sadiq does not seem to be so good at counting votes

What about London polling makes you think labour fear Tories in any way?

Londoners were responsible for Johnson's rise up the political ranks.

That's quite a long time ago now.

Has the demographic changed that much?

For the Tories it has yeah.

rjsterry

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Maybe it's Khan's poll tax, sorry, 'community car charge'.

Well see at the next mayoral elections. Hopefully he has annoyed enough Londoners and cost them enough money by then that he gets booted out.

I remember Red Ken's logic when he first introduced it which was that nobody driving into central london was going to vote for him anyway

Sadiq does not seem to be so good at counting votes

What about London polling makes you think labour fear Tories in any way?

Londoners were responsible for Johnson's rise up the political ranks.

They were, but I think he may have blown his cover.

Stevo_666

The Lib Dems are going up in my estimation:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/13/london-council-sutton-refuses-ulez-cameras-sadiq-khan/

mully79

...

photonic69 said:

focuszing723 said:

Electric motors in the wheels, that does make sense.

Electric motors are fantastical, utterly fantastical.

Electric motors in wheels are a 'nice' idea as it frees up the whole design of the car so you can start with what is basically a flat platform made of chassis and batteries combined. You then just build on top of that whatever shape you want. Car, van, people carrier etc. The downside is that motors in wheels add a lot to the unsprung weight of the wheels and this can dramatically affect handling and ride comfort etc.
If motors become small enough and light enough and still produce the same torque then it becomes viable.

Then you hit a pot hole and destroy a £5k motor in your wheel.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

The Lib Dems are going up in my estimation:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/13/london-council-sutton-refuses-ulez-cameras-sadiq-khan/

This will present our local MP with a dilemma as he'll have to do something other than moaning about the local council.

By the way the ULEZ extension is supported by the government as part of the TfL funding settlement.

Wheelspinner

mully79 said:

...

photonic69 said:

focuszing723 said:

Electric motors in the wheels, that does make sense.

Electric motors are fantastical, utterly fantastical.

Electric motors in wheels are a 'nice' idea as it frees up the whole design of the car so you can start with what is basically a flat platform made of chassis and batteries combined. You then just build on top of that whatever shape you want. Car, van, people carrier etc. The downside is that motors in wheels add a lot to the unsprung weight of the wheels and this can dramatically affect handling and ride comfort etc.
If motors become small enough and light enough and still produce the same torque then it becomes viable.

Then you hit a pot hole and destroy a £5k motor in your wheel.

True. Plus, I'd be intrigued to see how you are supposed to get the tyre changed when that pothole ruins one.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

The Lib Dems are going up in my estimation:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/13/london-council-sutton-refuses-ulez-cameras-sadiq-khan/

This will present our local MP with a dilemma as he'll have to do something other than moaning about the local council.

By the way the ULEZ extension is supported by the government as part of the TfL funding settlement.

Do you support your local council on this one?

rjsterry

No. How about you and the government?

Stevo_666

Best thing I've seen Lib Dems do in a while. Hopefully they will inspire other councils.

rjsterry

“Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we also propose the extension of the central London congestion charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and at the same time, October 2021.”

Penned by one G. Shapps, Transport Secretary.

😬

I'm really not sure why you care so much given that it doesn't affect you.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

“Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we also propose the extension of the central London congestion charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and at the same time, October 2021.”

Penned by one G. Shapps, Transport Secretary.

😬

That's one of the best things I've seen Grant Shapps do in a while.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

“Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we also propose the extension of the central London congestion charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and at the same time, October 2021.”

Penned by one G. Shapps, Transport Secretary.

😬

That might be the only good thing Grant Shapps ever did.

Ftfy

focuszing723

https://youtu.be/LuYsYLqjUtU

A 'bike highway' running between Daejon and Sejong in South Korea is a sight —or rather, a concept —, you surely haven't thought of before: It stretches for 20 miles (32 km), and it not only shields cyclists from the sun but also generates power at the same time.

It's true that a bicycle lane in the center of a highway is an unusual location for one, especially with three lanes of traffic on either side of it, yet it works. Much like the $3.7 million SolaRoad in the Netherlands, a 230-foot road replaced by solar panels, which powers the highway's lighting system, this bike highway is a win for green energy. Its lanes produce more than enough electricity to power the lighting of the highway and the electric vehicle charging stations, according to Fast Company.

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/south-korean-20-mile-solar-bike-highway-generates-electricity

focuszing723

The Squad automatically charges its batteries with solar energy from the solar panel on its own roof. Zero emissions, free, silent and wireless. all day and every day throughout its life cycle, when driving and when parked. Even in northern countries like The Netherlands the sun gives enough energy for average urban use. The solar panel can charge up to 20 km per day in Europe. The average micro car usage is around 12 km per day. The solar panel works in any light, also in the shade. The vehicle is powered by electric motors and batteries so it also works in the night, in winter or indoors . When extra range is needed, the portable batteries can be charged directly from a normal power socket. The Squad is lightweight and very energy efficient.

https://www.squadmobility.com

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

“Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we also propose the extension of the central London congestion charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and at the same time, October 2021.”

Penned by one G. Shapps, Transport Secretary.

😬

I'm really not sure why you care so much given that it doesn't affect you.

Just as you can disagree with your local Lib Dems, I can disagree with the Transport secretary on this one.

Anyhow, don't you think he's always getting it wrong?

First.Aspect

focuszing723 said:

The Squad automatically charges its batteries with solar energy from the solar panel on its own roof. Zero emissions, free, silent and wireless. all day and every day throughout its life cycle, when driving and when parked. Even in northern countries like The Netherlands the sun gives enough energy for average urban use. The solar panel can charge up to 20 km per day in Europe. The average micro car usage is around 12 km per day. The solar panel works in any light, also in the shade. The vehicle is powered by electric motors and batteries so it also works in the night, in winter or indoors . When extra range is needed, the portable batteries can be charged directly from a normal power socket. The Squad is lightweight and very energy efficient.

https://www.squadmobility.com

Solar roof panels are a sensible idea on the face of it - but for a city car they are likely to be rendered almost useless by where you need to park a car in a city, underground , next to tall buildings etc. Other than that, it's an electric Smart car, basically. Which means it is a configuration that will sell in reasonable numbers.

First.Aspect

Pricing is interesting, mind you. €7k or thereabouts.

kingstongraham

Not sure how it helps with congestion as it claims.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

“Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we also propose the extension of the central London congestion charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and at the same time, October 2021.”

Penned by one G. Shapps, Transport Secretary.

😬

I'm really not sure why you care so much given that it doesn't affect you.

Just as you can disagree with your local Lib Dems, I can disagree with the Transport secretary on this one.

Anyhow, don't you think he's always getting it wrong?

If you say so. I'm not really bothered who said it: I'd just like less s*** to breathe. Not sure why someone's need to drive a non-compliant car should trump other people's need for cleaner air.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

“Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we also propose the extension of the central London congestion charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and at the same time, October 2021.”

Penned by one G. Shapps, Transport Secretary.

😬

I'm really not sure why you care so much given that it doesn't affect you.

Just as you can disagree with your local Lib Dems, I can disagree with the Transport secretary on this one.

Anyhow, don't you think he's always getting it wrong?

If you say so. I'm not really bothered who said it: I'd just like less s*** to breathe. Not sure why someone's need to drive a non-compliant car should trump other people's need for cleaner air.

rjsterry

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

kingstongraham

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

But the air quality...

My work is in the West End, not a big problem. And the schools round here are good. Of course you are restricted if you don't drive.