Energy thread

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

I don’t think all the European governments will survive the winter.

Out of cycle removal of governments, growth of support and popularity for extremist parties and extremist solutions.

Hell even in the UK already there is a growing campaign for nationalisations and mass refusal to pay bills.

It’s winter so that helps keep people off the streets but I expect some countries to have significant civil unrest.

I think we’re going to see one genuine far right party take power in Western Europe by 2025.

By 2025 quite possibly, but that may well be for reasons other than purely the energy situation. France and Italy look to be heading that way in any event.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I don’t think all the European governments will survive the winter.

Out of cycle removal of governments, growth of support and popularity for extremist parties and extremist solutions.

Hell even in the UK already there is a growing campaign for nationalisations and mass refusal to pay bills.

It’s winter so that helps keep people off the streets but I expect some countries to have significant civil unrest.

I think we’re going to see one genuine far right party take power in Western Europe by 2025.

By 2025 quite possibly, but that may well be for reasons other than purely the energy situation. France and Italy look to be heading that way in any event.

You are under estimating the energy crisis.

Not such the massive inflation and erosion of wealth for Europe.

The massive blow to industry and the economy.

It’s a double whammy.

If it’s a cold winter we’re properly f@cked.

Think as bad as Covid but instead of people being afraid to go out it makes sense for them to not be at home.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I don’t think all the European governments will survive the winter.

Out of cycle removal of governments, growth of support and popularity for extremist parties and extremist solutions.

Hell even in the UK already there is a growing campaign for nationalisations and mass refusal to pay bills.

It’s winter so that helps keep people off the streets but I expect some countries to have significant civil unrest.

I think we’re going to see one genuine far right party take power in Western Europe by 2025.

By 2025 quite possibly, but that may well be for reasons other than purely the energy situation. France and Italy look to be heading that way in any event.

You are under estimating the energy crisis.

Not such the massive inflation and erosion of wealth for Europe.

The massive blow to industry and the economy.

It’s a double whammy.

If it’s a cold winter we’re properly f@cked.

Think as bad as Covid but instead of people being afraid to go out it makes sense for them to not be at home.

And we got through covid despite the doomsayers. It may accelerate what you said above, but it was headed that way anyway as I said.

rick_chasey

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Because of the austerity you so defended back in the day.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

kingstongraham

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

pangolin

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

Nonsense. I bet I could survey 100 people and find they all survived covid.

rick_chasey

Germany comes up with its plan:

https://twitter.com/bloomberguk/status/1566396874898153474?s=21&t=-1avB125R6mq2GapG4cxXw

Including all the other policies the bill for Germany is around €95bn all in.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

You know what I was saying.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

Nonsense. I bet I could survey 100 people and find they all survived covid.

And the centre leftie smartarse award for the day goes to...

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

Nonsense. I bet I could survey 100 people and find they all survived covid.

And the centre leftie smartarse award for the day goes to...

10s of thousands of excess deaths and businesses closing during covid. If that falls under the definition of getting through then I'm sure the energy crisis will too.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

Nonsense. I bet I could survey 100 people and find they all survived covid.

And the centre leftie smartarse award for the day goes to...

10s of thousands of excess deaths and businesses closing during covid. If that falls under the definition of getting through then I'm sure the energy crisis will too.

So maybe you trying to make a smartarse quip about it wasn't entirely appropriate?

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

Nonsense. I bet I could survey 100 people and find they all survived covid.

And the centre leftie smartarse award for the day goes to...

10s of thousands of excess deaths and businesses closing during covid. If that falls under the definition of getting through then I'm sure the energy crisis will too.

So maybe you trying to make a smartarse quip about it wasn't entirely appropriate?

Do you need any pearls to clutch or did you bring your own?

blazing_saddles

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

TBH, It would be nice to have any government atm.

First.Aspect

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

Truss today:

Shown calculations setting out that her planned reversal of a recent rise in national insurance would benefit top earners by around £1,800 a year, and the lowest earner by about £7, and asked if this was fair, Truss said: “Yes, it is fair.”

She said: “The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax, so inevitably when you cut taxes, you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax.

pangolin

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

Truss today:

Shown calculations setting out that her planned reversal of a recent rise in national insurance would benefit top earners by around £1,800 a year, and the lowest earner by about £7, and asked if this was fair, Truss said: “Yes, it is fair.”

She said: “The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax, so inevitably when you cut taxes, you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax.

Which makes sense if you assume the goal is reducing tax for everyone, rather than helping people pay for energy.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/jfarchy/status/1566361110634176512?s=21&t=-1avB125R6mq2GapG4cxXw

blazing_saddles

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

Truss today:

Shown calculations setting out that her planned reversal of a recent rise in national insurance would benefit top earners by around £1,800 a year, and the lowest earner by about £7, and asked if this was fair, Truss said: “Yes, it is fair.”

She said: “The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax, so inevitably when you cut taxes, you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax.

So, that buys one price cap rise for those who can already afford it and two boxes of candles and a tin of baked beans for the poor.
Seems fair.................to some.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

Truss today:

Shown calculations setting out that her planned reversal of a recent rise in national insurance would benefit top earners by around £1,800 a year, and the lowest earner by about £7, and asked if this was fair, Truss said: “Yes, it is fair.”

She said: “The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax, so inevitably when you cut taxes, you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax.

In fairness, the people who opposed the rise in the first place alleged it wasn't progressive. That includes labour.

morstar

I wonder if she does reverse the NI rise, whether they’ll revert the lower start point?
You can make arguments either way.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/jfarchy/status/1566361110634176512?s=21&t=-1avB125R6mq2GapG4cxXw

That feels overly dramatic. If there is a market for it and either insufficient or overly expensive imports then surely the most likely outcome is the price will rise to a point where it becomes economical to restart production?

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

Truss today:

Shown calculations setting out that her planned reversal of a recent rise in national insurance would benefit top earners by around £1,800 a year, and the lowest earner by about £7, and asked if this was fair, Truss said: “Yes, it is fair.”

She said: “The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax, so inevitably when you cut taxes, you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax.

In fairness, the people who opposed the rise in the first place alleged it wasn't progressive. That includes labour.

The main criticism I remember was around it not applying to pension income. I wonder if there'll be some way around this when it's reduced.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

How bad does a rightie government need to get before you question your faith?

Truss today:

Shown calculations setting out that her planned reversal of a recent rise in national insurance would benefit top earners by around £1,800 a year, and the lowest earner by about £7, and asked if this was fair, Truss said: “Yes, it is fair.”

She said: “The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax, so inevitably when you cut taxes, you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax.

In fairness, the people who opposed the rise in the first place alleged it wasn't progressive. That includes labour.

The main criticism I remember was around it not applying to pension income. I wonder if there'll be some way around this when it's reduced.

If it is at all complicated, I doubt it.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/jfarchy/status/1566361110634176512?s=21&t=-1avB125R6mq2GapG4cxXw

That feels overly dramatic. If there is a market for it and either insufficient or overly expensive imports then surely the most likely outcome is the price will rise to a point where it becomes economical to restart production?

The gas prices will be higher for a while - probably next winter too.

Outgoing shell CEO declared it’ll take a few winters to sort out

pblakeney

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/jfarchy/status/1566361110634176512?s=21&t=-1avB125R6mq2GapG4cxXw

That feels overly dramatic. If there is a market for it and either insufficient or overly expensive imports then surely the most likely outcome is the price will rise to a point where it becomes economical to restart production?

Only if the buyers can increase their prices accordingly, and the public bear the cost.
Inflation could sky rocket.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

kingstongraham said:

While we did, not everyone got through covid.

Nonsense. I bet I could survey 100 people and find they all survived covid.

And the centre leftie smartarse award for the day goes to...

10s of thousands of excess deaths and businesses closing during covid. If that falls under the definition of getting through then I'm sure the energy crisis will too.

So maybe you trying to make a smartarse quip about it wasn't entirely appropriate?

Do you need any pearls to clutch or did you bring your own?

Hoisted by your own smartarse petard

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

As it is in the UK, fwiw

Nope, the danger here is that we get a leftie government.

😂

briantrumpet

Maybe my regular autumn challenge of seeing how late I can leave turning on any heating won't be met with a "Why would you do that?" response this time.

rick_chasey

I think we’re all playing that game.

If the 2 degrees above average trend for this year continues we’ll be ok