Le Tour de Femmes, race chat

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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,224
    I really enjoyed it.

    If it hadn't come straight after the men's TdF I probably wouldn't have watched it.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,804

    I really enjoyed it.

    If it hadn't come straight after the men's TdF I probably wouldn't have watched it.

    Should be part of ptp ... Help get people watching
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,804
    I enjoyed it too . Learnt a lot .

    It was a good race ...not great or fantastic ...but a solid good. Looking forward to next edition
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    Unfortunately I've been away and struggles with interwebs and time to watch it.

    Hard to say but I can't help feeling a little bittersweet about another walkover. But then I didn't watch...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 5,844
    Going to feel very odd not having a bike race to have in the background at least from tomorrow... Pro racing in France all gone. :'(
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,804

    Going to feel very odd not having a bike race to have in the background at least from tomorrow... Pro racing in France all gone. :'(

    I need a break tbh
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479

    Two mountain stages and no tt is probably a bit much for 8 days. Another hilly stage with a puncheur finish would have maybe fit better

    The omission of a TT is an odd one, would potentially have opened up the race a bit.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,464
    Pross said:

    Two mountain stages and no tt is probably a bit much for 8 days. Another hilly stage with a puncheur finish would have maybe fit better

    The omission of a TT is an odd one, would potentially have opened up the race a bit.
    Do the women's teams all have TT bikes? They can't do many during the year and it would be a big expense for 1 day.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    Pross said:

    Two mountain stages and no tt is probably a bit much for 8 days. Another hilly stage with a puncheur finish would have maybe fit better

    The omission of a TT is an odd one, would potentially have opened up the race a bit.
    I think there may have been an effort to keep expenses down. The smaller teams have a very small budget. Bu t going forward I think there could be a return of the split stage - short road stage in the morning, TT in the afternoon.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    Just get them to do a TT on road bikes. Some of the men's races further afield do that don't they?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    Pross said:

    Just get them to do a TT on road bikes. Some of the men's races further afield do that don't they?


    Fair point, but I can imagine how that would go down with the equality police. If you're going to do it on road bikes, a Paris prologue would make a better opener.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    It'd suit me and Chris Froome if they made the men ride road bikes too - not that I expect that to happen.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    edited July 2022
    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    Just get them to do a TT on road bikes. Some of the men's races further afield do that don't they?


    Fair point, but I can imagine how that would go down with the equality police. If you're going to do it on road bikes, a Paris prologue would make a better opener.
    That would probably have made a much more interesting opening stage than the sprint, for sure.

    I think the Monday and Tuesday stages were such good fun that it maybe set expectations a little high, and the backloaded climbing (in retrospect) suited AVV because she had time to recover, but it was good enough entertainment. I'll certainly be tuning in again next year.

    Also, and I realise this is entirely selfish and a peculiar way of looking at things, but the lanterne rouge competition in the women's peloton was a lot more interesting - a real ding dong battle. I appreciate 90% of that is people having a bit of a joke, but it does tell you something about how hard people are fighting at the bottom end to have just one good day - there's a lot of pride amongst those riders.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150



    Also, and I realise this is entirely selfish and a peculiar way of looking at things, but the lanterne rouge competition in the women's peloton was a lot more interesting - a real ding dong battle. I appreciate 90% of that is people having a bit of a joke, but it does tell you something about how hard people are fighting at the bottom end to have just one good day - there's a lot of pride amongst those riders.


    I also think it informative. The disparity between women's teams is much greater than the men. There were six teams essentially making up the numbers (no top 20 GC and no top 10 in a stage). But people forget about them.

    For women's cycling to grow it needs more thriving teams. At the moment there are six that win and maybe four others that are competitive. Those six needs to expand to twelve and beyond. That will come with sponsorship money and time.

    I think the current structure is good. I don't see how a couple of extra stages would be beneficial. Once there is more money and 75% of the teams are competitive then they can look at going to 14 stages
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    edited August 2022
    I think the current structure is good. I don't see how a couple of extra stages would be beneficial. Once there is more money and 75% of the teams are competitive then they can look at going to 14 stages.


    The problem is that if the race is going to promoted as the race at the pinnacle of the women's cycling calendar, it will need to move to 10 stages, in order to match the Giro Donne. ( which, to my mind will still remain the top event)
    That's fair enough.

    I think eventually moving up to 14 stages, while it may appeal to sponsors, will be a bridge too far.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    Inevitably I suppose there is going to be a tendency for women's racing to develop along the lines of men's racing. So Spring classics, a Giro, a Tour de France etc just the financing is going to see the women's calendar develop as a mirror of the men's.

    It's interesting to consider if that's actually ideal though. If grand tours aren't 3 weeks long do we need one race that is seen as the pinnacle or could we have 3 grand tours of equal standing targeted equally by the top riders - a bit like golfing majors or tennis grand slams. Do they have to follow the same pattern as the men's grand tours - would it be sacrilege if they weren't decided in the high mountains ? Or if they weren't based in a single country ?
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036
    edited August 2022
    If there is a recession next year just keeping womens' cycling ticking over is going to be enough of a challenge.

    Back to climbers vs all rounders. The late great Emma Pooley is a climber and was pretty handy in the tours. She won the last Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale in 2009 (aka Womens ' tour de France, although it was a shadow of its former self by 2009). She also won the Tour Cycliste Féminin International de l'Ardèche twice. Here is the website for the 2022 edition: http://www.tcfia.org/ as everyone is now a womens' road racing fan. 7 stages overall.

    Pooley won the Tour de l'Aude Cycliste Féminin. The Tour de l'Aude was a 10 day event, the same as the Giro Rosa. The Route de France Féminine was another 7 days stage race held in France.... the ladies probably killed that one themselves in wanting ASO to organize a race, the schedule clash meant one of the races had to go.





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  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,002
    Pross said:

    Just get them to do a TT on road bikes. Some of the men's races further afield do that don't they?

    Pretty pointless for 75% of the men’s race to have TT bikes anyway. Just need bikes for the GCs and a small no of others.
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,131
    First thing to sort is having a larger gap between the Giro Donne, and TdF Femmes; all done in a month. Madness.....makes zero sense.

    There's also no reason for the women to copy the men's calendar, unless that is what they want - so in the future a Vuelta for women. However, why can't the women have an extra major tour?
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150

    I think the current structure is good. I don't see how a couple of extra stages would be beneficial. Once there is more money and 75% of the teams are competitive then they can look at going to 14 stages.


    The problem is that if the race is going to promoted as the race at the pinnacle of the women's cycling calendar, it will need to move to 10 stages, in order to match the Giro Donne. ( which, to my mind will still remain the top event)
    That's fair enough.

    I think eventually moving up to 14 stages, while it may appeal to sponsors, will be a bridge too far.


    The idea of lengthening to 14 stages is something for the far distance - 20 years time sort of thing.

    As for moving to 10 stages I don't see where they would fit. I think the race has to start in Paris as the men ends - for sponsor reasons and it makes it feel like the Tour. And then it needs to reach a climax on the weekend for TV viewing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Inevitably I suppose there is going to be a tendency for women's racing to develop along the lines of men's racing. So Spring classics, a Giro, a Tour de France etc just the financing is going to see the women's calendar develop as a mirror of the men's.

    It's interesting to consider if that's actually ideal though. If grand tours aren't 3 weeks long do we need one race that is seen as the pinnacle or could we have 3 grand tours of equal standing targeted equally by the top riders - a bit like golfing majors or tennis grand slams. Do they have to follow the same pattern as the men's grand tours - would it be sacrilege if they weren't decided in the high mountains ? Or if they weren't based in a single country ?

    That's a very good question and one I had been considering.

    The answer lies in the current state of the peloton. The bottom line being that there are insufficient top riders to sustain three GTs. Better to have a ten day Tour and a Giro with slightly more separation in the calendar, so all the top riders can compete in both.
    Add a third and the startlist quality of the third will be significantly weaker. It might also effect the quality of the other two.


    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,804
    I would do something similar to this format again
    davidof said:

    If there is a recession next year just keeping women's cycling ticking over is going to be enough of a challenge.

    Back to climbers vs all rounders. The late great Emma Pooley is a climber and was pretty handy in the tours. She won the last Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale in 2009 (aka Women's tour de France, although it was a shadow of its former self by 2009). She also won the Tour Cycliste Féminin International de l'Ardèche twice. Here is the website for the 2022 edition: http://www.tcfia.org/ as everyone is now a women's road racing fan. 7 stages overall.

    Pooley won the Tour de l'Aude Cycliste Féminin. The Tour de l'Aude was a 10 day event, the same as the Giro Rosa. The Route de France Féminine was another 7 days stage race held in France.... the ladies probably killed that one themselves in wanting ASO to organize a race, the schedule clash meant one of the races had to go.

    That ardeche parcours is pretty grippy albeit with shorter stages .

    I think we need a bigger sample size than "1" before demanding radical format changes. I thought the parcours was pretty good . Hard to factor out the AvV factor to make it tighter in the mountains. A lot of that was down to team tactics IMO. Just let this race bed in for a few editions .

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,674
    The mention of Grand Slam: AvV has Giro Donne, TdFF and barring problems has to be odds on for another Ceratizit mini Vuelta. All 3 in one season. Ok, a 5 day maybe is a bit too short, but...
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,309
    I think the most important thing to take away from this edition is that it actually happened. It was a good start. We saw that just the name Tour de France provided a huge boost in coverage. It's inevitable that regardless of the longstanding Giro d'Italia Femminile being the actual peak of women's stage racing the TdF will take over in prestige and mainstream perception.

    The women's tour doesn't have a lot of stage racing yet, and most are short 3-4 day races. This naturally selects for all rounders rather than dedicated GC riders. This may not be a bad thing, but if we want to see a longer TdF in future while having a balanced race we probably need to extend some of the the smaller races as well.

    The question shouldn't really be "how do we improve this race? " but "how do we build on its success?", with a wider context.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • While the headline is a little misleading, it seems that the race (the latest version) has finally captured the interest of the French people. This is an interesting reference article as TDF viewing figures occasionally crop up in debate.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/tour-de-france-femmes-a-smash-hit-with-french-tv-audience-with-nearly-20m-viewers
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036
    edited August 2022

    While the headline is a little misleading, it seems that the race (the latest version) has finally captured the interest of the French people. This is an interesting reference article as TDF viewing figures occasionally crop up in debate.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/tour-de-france-femmes-a-smash-hit-with-french-tv-audience-with-nearly-20m-viewers

    What's important is how much they can sell the rights for in 2023 and how much TV advertising the TV companies can attract and how much it costs ASO to put on the race. Say TV rights, other sponsorship, entry fees etc only just cover organising the race there is still not going to be a big pot for prize money. Just because viewship is at 50% of the men's race doesn't mean that the women should receive 50% of the prize money, it could be more, it could be less.

    I will give you another data point which confirms the figures in the article (I never trust journalists). The resume on Youtube for France TV sport for the l'Alpe d'Huez stage attracted 229K viewers. The Planche des Belles Filles stage got 110K viewers. (contrary to the article I don't think the women's stage finished at the Super Planche des Belles Filles).

    Of course if money going into womens' cycling goes up we could end up with better quality fields, good for us as spectators, not so good for today's women eeking out a living from pro cycling as we would be less likely to see a 40 year old winning races. Be careful what you wish for but I agree to build from here there needs to be better fields and more money if that can be done.

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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,224
    davidof said:

    (contrary to the article I don't think the women's stage finished at the Super Planche des Belles Filles).

    :*

    Erm...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    The Tour of the Pyrenees is very budget looking after the Tour. Instead of a graphic of distance remaining they had elapsed time, the distance came up a few times but was clearly wrong (a couple of times it showed 106km to go and the race was only 77km!).

    The winner, Krista Doebel-Hickok, and rest of a 5 rider break were over a lap ahead of the peloton due to a ridiculously short 2.5km finish circuit. Zoe Backstedt, who was one of very few names I recognised in the race, led the peolton home.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036

    davidof said:

    (contrary to the article I don't think the women's stage finished at the Super Planche des Belles Filles).

    :*

    Erm...
    did they do the gravel section?
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  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,918
    davidof said:

    davidof said:

    (contrary to the article I don't think the women's stage finished at the Super Planche des Belles Filles).

    :*

    Erm...
    did they do the gravel section?
    Yes they did, before the final tarmac section which was determined too steep for road bikes on gravel. Same as for the men.