Shimano 105 Di2 Confirmed

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Comments

  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    1700 quid though. That's a fair old outlay.
  • thejimmymethod
    thejimmymethod Posts: 458
    me-109 said:

    1700 quid though. That's a fair old outlay.

    1000 quid extra over what you can get R7000 mechanical for, yikes.
  • ibr17xvii
    ibr17xvii Posts: 1,065
    Only 50/34 & 52/36 chainsets.

    12 speed cassette only available in 11/34 & 11/36 which is a bit strange.

    I will be in the market for a new bike at the back end of this year or the beginning of next but for 1K extra over mechanical & no rim brake option I won't be considering this.
  • akh
    akh Posts: 206
    The compatibility charts on Shimano's website have been updated for those that are curious.

    https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?cid=C-453&acid=C-453

    Officially the 11/36 will only work with the new 105 rear derailleur and 105 derailleur can't be used with the 11/30 cassettes from Ultegra and Dura Ace. I'd be surprised if they don't work fine though.

    Mix and match shifters, front derailleurs, chainsets, and brake callipers as you like though it seems.
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,228
    Having had my first Di2 bike recently (8100 Ultegra) the bits that I absolutely love are the buttons on the top of the shifters allowing to scroll through your Garmin, and the servo wave brakes that don't rub but still have feel. Neither of which makes the cut here. I also think they've hobbled themselves on the ratios; this is going to be specced on the cheapest rung of every aero bike going and 50/34 11-34 won't make sense for that sort of bike (possibly better once the 52-36 comes out).

    Will still sell by the bucketload though... I expect to see a lot of bikes with it in the £3-4k range, and that will quickly be seen as the point "performance bikes" start.
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    That's a shed load of money for what tends to be 'entry level', either bikes or groupset.
  • JimD666
    JimD666 Posts: 2,293
    Expected a premium but £1K over the mechanical? Blimey. Pass from me.
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 487
    JimD666 said:

    Expected a premium but £1K over the mechanical? Blimey. Pass from me.

    Agree on this
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,341
    me-109 said:

    1700 quid though. That's a fair old outlay.

    🤣🤣🤣
    Big discounts or cycling has just jumped the shark.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ibr17xvii
    ibr17xvii Posts: 1,065
    The way the industry is going is very sad IMO. The choice for those that want rim / mechanical is getting less & less.

    I appreciate everything is going up but the price of this over mechanical is ridiculous.
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    Since the shift to 12s does not require a new hub, and is therefore backwards compatible with a lot of existing kit and frames, I don't see the logic in limiting current and future sales to a disc-only market, even if the expectation is that this is aimed at non-enthusiasts so less likely to be used as an upgrade or for a self-build. I think there are a lot of keen amateurs that would go for this as an upgrade to older Ultegra that can't or won't fund a move to Ultegra DI2 - if there was a rim-brake version.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,341
    me-109 said:

    ...would go for this as an upgrade to older Ultegra that can't or won't fund a move to Ultegra DI2 - if there was a rim-brake version.

    I read it as an admission from Shimano that rim brakes are now obsolete in their opinion. Take from that what you will.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ibr17xvii
    ibr17xvii Posts: 1,065
    pblakeney said:

    me-109 said:

    ...would go for this as an upgrade to older Ultegra that can't or won't fund a move to Ultegra DI2 - if there was a rim-brake version.

    I read it as an admission from Shimano that rim brakes are now obsolete in their opinion. Take from that what you will.
    This seems to be the opinion of 95% of the market.

    IMHO that's nonsense.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    As the article on the bike radar site says - if you want a competitive race bike - light weight, aero wheels - on a budget then mechanical (and imo rim brakes) is still the way to go.


    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,115
    It's been fairly clear for a while that the industry is pushing towards disc brakes and largely the discontinuation of rim brakes, as well as trying to secure electronic as the larger market share over mechanical groupsets.

    Most bike companies claim this is just a reaction to consumer demand which is bs, people have very little choice other than to buy a DB road bike, as that is mainly what is produced now.

    I don't really see any motive other than making more money.

    It will be interesting to see if this is successful long term. I think they are also cashing in on the wave of new cyclists buying bikes. The potential problem comes when many of these don't stick with it, which could happen over the next 2-3 years, and they are relying on more established cyclists who don't want discs or electronic gears.

    Look at campag's increased sales. I know this is in part due to the fact that they have kept up supply during covid, but I suspect many people are also going back to more traditional groupsets, which Sram and Shimano are clearly aiming to ditch.
  • PMark
    PMark Posts: 160
    edited June 2022
    GCN asked shimano about using a hyper glide plus cassette with 105 and shimano just said some rubbish about not properly testing the combination. Suspect it will work ok, but shimano don’t want the improved shifting on 105 (giving people a reason to go ultegra).

    On rim brake bikes, shimano aren’t going to suddenly stop production of mechanical groupsets and SRAM offer AXS for rim brake, so don’t really see a problem.

    But considering you can get a complete 1x SRAM axs gravel groupset for under £1200 (2x group set for under £1400). Not seeing too much reason to go with di2 105, if I was choosing a group set.
  • racerex
    racerex Posts: 69
    I just wonder about the longevity of electronic groupsets in general. I have my old steel Trek that I raced on back in the '80's hanging in my garage and still pull down and take for a spin occasionally. What are the odds that today's battery will still take a charge in the 2050's?
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,115
    On rim brake bikes, shimano aren’t going to suddenly stop production of mechanical groupsets and SRAM offer AXS for rim brake, so don’t really see a problem.


    I though all the new shimano groupsets were electronic only? There is a rim brake option but not mechanical. Happy to be proved wrong if that is not the case!

    Yes, AXS has a rim brake option, but how many people can afford it? I suspect getting a full force or rival 22 mechanical group is not that easy anymore.

    I know the thread is about 105 Di2 but it raises bigger issues around where the bike industry is heading. The days of affordable bikes and components is slowly fading. Mechanical, rim brake bikes are generally far cheaper than DB bikes with electronic groups. The former are becoming less of a focus for bike manufacturers, with new tech pushing up prices at all levels. If you are new to cycling or just don't have £2k plus to spend on a new bike, your options seem to dwindle year on year.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,341
    racerex said:

    I just wonder about the longevity of electronic groupsets in general. I have my old steel Trek that I raced on back in the '80's hanging in my garage and still pull down and take for a spin occasionally. What are the odds that today's battery will still take a charge in the 2050's?

    Consider the usability of any computer equipment you have lying around from 20 years ago. Floppy discs? CDs? Firewire? SCCDI? Just as examples.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,228
    pblakeney said:

    racerex said:

    I just wonder about the longevity of electronic groupsets in general. I have my old steel Trek that I raced on back in the '80's hanging in my garage and still pull down and take for a spin occasionally. What are the odds that today's battery will still take a charge in the 2050's?

    Consider the usability of any computer equipment you have lying around from 20 years ago. Floppy discs? CDs? Firewire? SCCDI? Just as examples.
    I know people with first gen Ultegra Di2 from 10 years ago still in use, still working as well as the day they bought it... This isn't a bleeding edge computer system, it is changing gears. As long as the battery works, it will work (and the battery should be good for 500-1000 charges).

    Actually I think reliability and lack of maintenance requirements is a major selling point of Di2.. if you can change a cable and index gears you probably won't appreciate it, but there are lots of people that can't or can't be bothered to.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,341
    super_davo said:

    pblakeney said:

    racerex said:

    I just wonder about the longevity of electronic groupsets in general. I have my old steel Trek that I raced on back in the '80's hanging in my garage and still pull down and take for a spin occasionally. What are the odds that today's battery will still take a charge in the 2050's?

    Consider the usability of any computer equipment you have lying around from 20 years ago. Floppy discs? CDs? Firewire? SCCDI? Just as examples.
    I know people with first gen Ultegra Di2 from 10 years ago still in use, still working as well as the day they bought it... This isn't a bleeding edge computer system, it is changing gears. As long as the battery works, it will work (and the battery should be good for 500-1000 charges).
    I am more cynical when it comes to companies design changes. I think often things are deliberately made non-backward compatible to keep the purchases flowing. I think a lot of industries have learned from the computing model about how to keep people upgrading.
    Once that battery fails will it be replaceable? Possibly. Possibly not.
    None of the examples I gave were exactly bleeding edge.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    its also forcing people to buy stuff they may not really be happy with - i'm 100% happy with mechanical and rim, if it gets to the point i can only get electronic, disc and electronic/disc only framesets its gonna be a bitshit

    also feel a bit sorry for those poor sods who get stiffed for (inc discounts) £1500 for a 105 groupset.....
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • ibr17xvii
    ibr17xvii Posts: 1,065
    MattFalle said:

    also feel a bit sorry for those poor sods who get stiffed for (inc discounts) £1500 for a 105 groupset.....


    More fool them but at that price point folk might not have that much choice.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    I paid £270 for 5800 when it came out around 2016. R7000 is £500 tpday (Merlin) so not horrendous
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,341
    ibr17xvii said:

    MattFalle said:

    also feel a bit sorry for those poor sods who get stiffed for (inc discounts) £1500 for a 105 groupset.....


    More fool them but at that price point folk might not have that much choice.
    Mechanical and a holiday. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • thejimmymethod
    thejimmymethod Posts: 458
    shirley_basso said:

    I paid £270 for 5800 when it came out around 2016. R7000 is £500 tpday (Merlin) so not horrendous

    My bike with 5800 was 850 in 2016. Could have had 2 for price of this 105!
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,228
    MattFalle said:

    its also forcing people to buy stuff they may not really be happy with - i'm 100% happy with mechanical and rim, if it gets to the point i can only get electronic, disc and electronic/disc only framesets its gonna be a bitshit

    also feel a bit sorry for those poor sods who get stiffed for (inc discounts) £1500 for a 105 groupset.....

    You'll still be able to buy mechanical & rim framesets for some time. But it is pretty obvious that all the R&D for frames & groupsets is going on disc and electronic, so by doing so you're sticking yourself in a "it was a great bike in 2015" time warp.

    FWIW for a light summer bike or for racing mechanical rim brake has loads of advantages, especially if on a budget; but over time improvements elsewhere mean you'll be better off making the jump, or you just will want to make the jump because the bike it's on looks that cool.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    edited June 2022
    No bike with discs looks cool.

    Sticking with rim brakes is a great way to also force you to stop buying into the perpetual upgrade hype whereby we all know (but deny to ourselves) that most R&D doesn't really count for anything to the vast majority of cyclists.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,202
    There is probably enough of a gap in the market for campag or others to fill with mechanical and rim brake groupsets.

    Hopefully they'll be like vinyl.

    Having a bike I can't use because if needs a firmware update doesn't appeal.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    pblakeney said:

    ibr17xvii said:

    MattFalle said:

    also feel a bit sorry for those poor sods who get stiffed for (inc discounts) £1500 for a 105 groupset.....


    More fool them but at that price point folk might not have that much choice.
    Mechanical and a holiday. 😉
    not to mention ho n blow
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.

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