Tourist Trophy
Comments
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Exactly! I might be thick, but I'm not stupid.pinno said:
This I agree with.rick_chasey said:It is
I’m of the view sports should work hard to avoid deaths.pinno said:At least you're just 'thick' and not a thick snowflake. Chin up.
Back OT (if possible):
Motorbike racing is a voluntary thing; whether as a martial, competitor or a spectator.
War isn't.
Rick is suffering from an odd NIMBYism.
It's the rest of the cr4p you chuck around that I disagree with. Especially the emotive stuff.
You completely missed FZ's point yet you called him stupid! I mean WTF?
However, banning/santising the TT because it interferes with your sense of morality and a desire for an imposed responsibility on others is wrong. That's like saying 'you aren't responsible enough to look after your own welfare, therefore, I'll look after you on your behalf'. And it's obvious you have a problem with death through a pursuit that is voluntary.
Taking risks should be an individuals choice.
Now, where it gets messy is smoking, like you cited. This is because the state has to pay for a smokers medical treatment in the event they become ill.
If the individual who smokes had to pay for any side effects of smoking, I would say smoke 40 a day - carry on. If you say smoke all you like but you have to take out medical insurance to cover that activity, carry on or else the NHS doesn't pay for medical care.
In the case of the TT: marshals are paid for, medical care is paid for. The risk does not effect other people's choices. The smoker who needs medical care because of smoking is putting unnecessary burden on the health system at a potential cost to another individual who gets ill or injured through no fault of their own.
I resent the fat f*cker in the street who eats badly and has self-induced diabetes (which is costing the NHS £10bn per year). I have a right to tell him/her where to go. I am paying taxes to fix/maintain the smoker and the self-induced diabetic chip worshipping, pie eating, grease loving fat f*cker whereas the insured TT racer is not affecting me in any shape or form and is not directly or indirectly affecting my life or access to medical care.
(Unless of course I get splatted on the roadside as a spectator but then it's my choice to attend the event and my responsibility to stand somewhere where I am unlikely to get splatted).0 -
And I'm not a d1ck, forgot that.focuszing723 said:
Exactly! I might be thick, but I'm not stupid.pinno said:
This I agree with.rick_chasey said:It is
I’m of the view sports should work hard to avoid deaths.pinno said:At least you're just 'thick' and not a thick snowflake. Chin up.
Back OT (if possible):
Motorbike racing is a voluntary thing; whether as a martial, competitor or a spectator.
War isn't.
Rick is suffering from an odd NIMBYism.
It's the rest of the cr4p you chuck around that I disagree with. Especially the emotive stuff.
You completely missed FZ's point yet you called him stupid! I mean WTF?
However, banning/santising the TT because it interferes with your sense of morality and a desire for an imposed responsibility on others is wrong. That's like saying 'you aren't responsible enough to look after your own welfare, therefore, I'll look after you on your behalf'. And it's obvious you have a problem with death through a pursuit that is voluntary.
Taking risks should be an individuals choice.
Now, where it gets messy is smoking, like you cited. This is because the state has to pay for a smokers medical treatment in the event they become ill.
If the individual who smokes had to pay for any side effects of smoking, I would say smoke 40 a day - carry on. If you say smoke all you like but you have to take out medical insurance to cover that activity, carry on or else the NHS doesn't pay for medical care.
In the case of the TT: marshals are paid for, medical care is paid for. The risk does not effect other people's choices. The smoker who needs medical care because of smoking is putting unnecessary burden on the health system at a potential cost to another individual who gets ill or injured through no fault of their own.
I resent the fat f*cker in the street who eats badly and has self-induced diabetes (which is costing the NHS £10bn per year). I have a right to tell him/her where to go. I am paying taxes to fix/maintain the smoker and the self-induced diabetic chip worshipping, pie eating, grease loving fat f*cker whereas the insured TT racer is not affecting me in any shape or form and is not directly or indirectly affecting my life or access to medical care.
(Unless of course I get splatted on the roadside as a spectator but then it's my choice to attend the event and my responsibility to stand somewhere where I am unlikely to get splatted).0 -
If people want to do stuff that kills them and doesn't affect anyone else, fair enough. None of my business, but I do find it interesting.
I can't imagine being the organiser of a fun event that directly results in a few deaths every time. Everyone's different.0 -
Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.0 -
I would hate to see Alex Honnold banned from rocks n stuff.0
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Nine pages in and people are still trotting out the old 'rock climbers die too' analogy.focuszing723 said:Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.
The point has already been made (and apparently ignored) that there are lots of deaths in lots of other types of sports/activities. There is even the occasional death in motocross and I've been unfortunate enough to have been present at a meeting where someone died - it's something you're never likely to forget.
But the issue is not the deaths themselves - from an IoM perspective, it's the predictable inevitability of the deaths and the high number of deaths in the context of the overall entry number.
The issue of skydiving was mentioned earlier in the thread. 11 deaths in the USA in 2020. But in the context of 2.8 million skydives, it's regarded as an acceptable number.
I asked this question earlier and nobody answered - to all those who keep saying "they know the risks" etc - if five deaths per year is acceptable to you, then how many would it take before you sat up, took notice and said "fk me, this is getting a bit much" - 10, 20, 100...?? What's your red line.??0 -
Yes but I don't think anyone on the thread has said they'd ban the TT - I may have missed it if they have - so really the question could be put to all of us as to what our red line would be.
I've said I'm uneasy with the event as it is - I don't think I could really be part of it say as an organiser - but I wouldn't ban it. Where is my red line - I don't know - it's not something you can really calculate as so much is subjective and based on emotion. If my son took up motorcycle road racing I'd want it banned now.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
Having organised one event (of many) where someone died despite all the risk assessments and providing additional measures that weren't strictly required I no longer organise anything and don't even like helping out at events organised by others. Those taking part are aware of the risks and choose to take part. However, their friends and family sometimes think they were press ganged into it and someone has to be blamed.kingstongraham said:If people want to do stuff that kills them and doesn't affect anyone else, fair enough. None of my business, but I do find it interesting.
I can't imagine being the organiser of a fun event that directly results in a few deaths every time. Everyone's different.2 -
Are they all orphansfocuszing723 said:
Their Choice, their life. They aren't being forced.rick_chasey said:As long as they’re not dying in front of you, eh?
You seem to revel in the Putin thread.As long as they’re not dying in front of you, eh?
I think this is a good summary. I have a bit of an issue with people describing the riders as brave when all they are doing is riding around in circles for their own gratification. It's a fundamentally selfish activity. That's absolutely fine, but let's be honest about it.monkimark said:Compare it to tobacco and alcohol and it doesn't seem too bad - tens of thousands die every year from the 'entertainment' of smoking, the government have done a bit of tinkering around the edges over the years (age restrictions, advertising bans) but it hasn't solved the problem. There is a very easy solution (ban it) but it would be very unpopular with smokers so they don't do it.
I guess in this analogy, changing it to be like the NW200 would be vaping.
I appreciate that it doesn't stand up to detailed scrutiny but it boils down to - people enjoy doing a very dangerous thing, even knowing it is very dangerous. You can do a bit to mitigate the danger by sticking some padding up on walls, removing the occasional bit of street furniture and putting in place emergency medical support but ultimately you won't make it safe unless you ban it or make it into a different race.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think this is the nub of it. Those deaths don't just affect the rider. There is a direct impact on immediate friends and relatives and a more subtle effect on wider society.Pross said:
Having organised one event (of many) where someone died despite all the risk assessments and providing additional measures that weren't strictly required I no longer organise anything and don't even like helping out at events organised by others. Those taking part are aware of the risks and choose to take part. However, their friends and family sometimes think they were press ganged into it and someone has to be blamed.kingstongraham said:If people want to do stuff that kills them and doesn't affect anyone else, fair enough. None of my business, but I do find it interesting.
I can't imagine being the organiser of a fun event that directly results in a few deaths every time. Everyone's different.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
imposter2.0 said:
Nine pages in and people are still trotting out the old 'rock climbers die too' analogy.focuszing723 said:Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.
The point has already been made (and apparently ignored) that there are lots of deaths in lots of other types of sports/activities. There is even the occasional death in motocross and I've been unfortunate enough to have been present at a meeting where someone died - it's something you're never likely to forget.
But the issue is not the deaths themselves - from an IoM perspective, it's the predictable inevitability of the deaths and the high number of deaths in the context of the overall entry number.
The issue of skydiving was mentioned earlier in the thread. 11 deaths in the USA in 2020. But in the context of 2.8 million skydives, it's regarded as an acceptable number.
I asked this question earlier and nobody answered - to all those who keep saying "they know the risks" etc - if five deaths per year is acceptable to you, then how many would it take before you sat up, took notice and said "fk me, this is getting a bit much" - 10, 20, 100...?? What's your red line.??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isle_of_Man_TT_Mountain_Course_fatalities
Futile point, that ain't going to happen. It is a lot per year, though, granted.0 -
That's just a cop out. What's your limit?focuszing723 said:imposter2.0 said:
Nine pages in and people are still trotting out the old 'rock climbers die too' analogy.focuszing723 said:Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.
The point has already been made (and apparently ignored) that there are lots of deaths in lots of other types of sports/activities. There is even the occasional death in motocross and I've been unfortunate enough to have been present at a meeting where someone died - it's something you're never likely to forget.
But the issue is not the deaths themselves - from an IoM perspective, it's the predictable inevitability of the deaths and the high number of deaths in the context of the overall entry number.
The issue of skydiving was mentioned earlier in the thread. 11 deaths in the USA in 2020. But in the context of 2.8 million skydives, it's regarded as an acceptable number.
I asked this question earlier and nobody answered - to all those who keep saying "they know the risks" etc - if five deaths per year is acceptable to you, then how many would it take before you sat up, took notice and said "fk me, this is getting a bit much" - 10, 20, 100...?? What's your red line.??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isle_of_Man_TT_Mountain_Course_fatalities
Futile point, that ain't going to happen. It is a lot per year, though, granted.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
As RJS has said above - that's not an answer. All you've done is re-posted a graph from a few pages back which doesn't answer the question I actually asked.focuszing723 said:imposter2.0 said:
Nine pages in and people are still trotting out the old 'rock climbers die too' analogy.focuszing723 said:Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.
The point has already been made (and apparently ignored) that there are lots of deaths in lots of other types of sports/activities. There is even the occasional death in motocross and I've been unfortunate enough to have been present at a meeting where someone died - it's something you're never likely to forget.
But the issue is not the deaths themselves - from an IoM perspective, it's the predictable inevitability of the deaths and the high number of deaths in the context of the overall entry number.
The issue of skydiving was mentioned earlier in the thread. 11 deaths in the USA in 2020. But in the context of 2.8 million skydives, it's regarded as an acceptable number.
I asked this question earlier and nobody answered - to all those who keep saying "they know the risks" etc - if five deaths per year is acceptable to you, then how many would it take before you sat up, took notice and said "fk me, this is getting a bit much" - 10, 20, 100...?? What's your red line.??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isle_of_Man_TT_Mountain_Course_fatalities
Futile point, that ain't going to happen. It is a lot per year, though, granted.
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One's too much for me. I'd never do it or put my family through it.rjsterry said:
That's just a cop out. What's your limit?focuszing723 said:imposter2.0 said:
Nine pages in and people are still trotting out the old 'rock climbers die too' analogy.focuszing723 said:Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.
The point has already been made (and apparently ignored) that there are lots of deaths in lots of other types of sports/activities. There is even the occasional death in motocross and I've been unfortunate enough to have been present at a meeting where someone died - it's something you're never likely to forget.
But the issue is not the deaths themselves - from an IoM perspective, it's the predictable inevitability of the deaths and the high number of deaths in the context of the overall entry number.
The issue of skydiving was mentioned earlier in the thread. 11 deaths in the USA in 2020. But in the context of 2.8 million skydives, it's regarded as an acceptable number.
I asked this question earlier and nobody answered - to all those who keep saying "they know the risks" etc - if five deaths per year is acceptable to you, then how many would it take before you sat up, took notice and said "fk me, this is getting a bit much" - 10, 20, 100...?? What's your red line.??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isle_of_Man_TT_Mountain_Course_fatalities
Futile point, that ain't going to happen. It is a lot per year, though, granted.
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
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That's a particularly pathetic answer.focuszing723 said:
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Treating the road as a 'racetrack' is not actually legal. Road use is governed by the Road Traffic Act, with speed limits n' everything. The rest of your post is just a rather pointless list of other things that might be dangerous.
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Blimey, that's pathetic to the list too.imposter2.0 said:
That's a particularly pathetic answer.focuszing723 said:
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Treating the road as a 'racetrack' is not actually legal. Road use is governed by the Road Traffic Act, with speed limits n' everything. The rest of your post is just a rather pointless list of other things that might be dangerous.
I'm a pathetic, thick, stupid, d1ck.
Bloody charming.0 -
Good point, but it would mean this place would be like the Marie Celeste.focuszing723 said:
I'm of the view some people think too much about things which are out of their control, rather than getting on with $h1t that is.rick_chasey said:It is
I’m of the view sports should work hard to avoid deaths.pinno said:At least you're just 'thick' and not a thick snowflake. Chin up.
Back OT (if possible):
Motorbike racing is a voluntary thing; whether as a martial, competitor or a spectator.
War isn't.
Rick is suffering from an odd NIMBYism.
It seems to me that the death rate of the TT hasn’t changed and so I question how seriously they are working to avoid deaths."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
He is one impressive climber. What you posted reminds me of that phrase, 'if at first you don't succeed, then maybe base jumping isn't for you.'focuszing723 said:I would hate to see Alex Honnold banned from rocks n stuff.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Shortfall, Post Musk damn it!Stevo_666 said:
Good point, but it would mean this place would be like the Marie Celeste.focuszing723 said:
I'm of the view some people think too much about things which are out of their control, rather than getting on with $h1t that is.rick_chasey said:It is
I’m of the view sports should work hard to avoid deaths.pinno said:At least you're just 'thick' and not a thick snowflake. Chin up.
Back OT (if possible):
Motorbike racing is a voluntary thing; whether as a martial, competitor or a spectator.
War isn't.
Rick is suffering from an odd NIMBYism.
It seems to me that the death rate of the TT hasn’t changed and so I question how seriously they are working to avoid deaths.
Add to the variety of variant musings.2 -
focuszing723 said:
Blimey, that's pathetic to the list too.imposter2.0 said:
That's a particularly pathetic answer.focuszing723 said:
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Treating the road as a 'racetrack' is not actually legal. Road use is governed by the Road Traffic Act, with speed limits n' everything. The rest of your post is just a rather pointless list of other things that might be dangerous.
I'm a pathetic, thick, stupid, d1ck.
Bloody charming.
Clearly there's a pattern emerging. Try raising your game a bit.0 -
Notwithstanding the alert,focuszing723 said:
One's too much for me. I'd never do it or put my family through it.rjsterry said:
That's just a cop out. What's your limit?focuszing723 said:imposter2.0 said:
Nine pages in and people are still trotting out the old 'rock climbers die too' analogy.focuszing723 said:Climbers who try and bag Mount Everest know what they are up for, yet they still do it.
Rock Climbers in general.
The point has already been made (and apparently ignored) that there are lots of deaths in lots of other types of sports/activities. There is even the occasional death in motocross and I've been unfortunate enough to have been present at a meeting where someone died - it's something you're never likely to forget.
But the issue is not the deaths themselves - from an IoM perspective, it's the predictable inevitability of the deaths and the high number of deaths in the context of the overall entry number.
The issue of skydiving was mentioned earlier in the thread. 11 deaths in the USA in 2020. But in the context of 2.8 million skydives, it's regarded as an acceptable number.
I asked this question earlier and nobody answered - to all those who keep saying "they know the risks" etc - if five deaths per year is acceptable to you, then how many would it take before you sat up, took notice and said "fk me, this is getting a bit much" - 10, 20, 100...?? What's your red line.??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isle_of_Man_TT_Mountain_Course_fatalities
Futile point, that ain't going to happen. It is a lot per year, though, granted.
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Nobody.
Has.
Proposed.
A.
Ban.
I think it's more useful to think about what you would do if you were involved in organising the event.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The winning move is not to play.imposter2.0 said:focuszing723 said:
Blimey, that's pathetic to the list too.imposter2.0 said:
That's a particularly pathetic answer.focuszing723 said:
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Treating the road as a 'racetrack' is not actually legal. Road use is governed by the Road Traffic Act, with speed limits n' everything. The rest of your post is just a rather pointless list of other things that might be dangerous.
I'm a pathetic, thick, stupid, d1ck.
Bloody charming.
Clearly there's a pattern emerging. Try raising your game a bit.
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Try that then...focuszing723 said:
The winning move is not to play.imposter2.0 said:focuszing723 said:
Blimey, that's pathetic to the list too.imposter2.0 said:
That's a particularly pathetic answer.focuszing723 said:
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Treating the road as a 'racetrack' is not actually legal. Road use is governed by the Road Traffic Act, with speed limits n' everything. The rest of your post is just a rather pointless list of other things that might be dangerous.
I'm a pathetic, thick, stupid, d1ck.
Bloody charming.
Clearly there's a pattern emerging. Try raising your game a bit.0 -
Damn, I've kind of fought my way into a position of surrender here.imposter2.0 said:
Try that then...focuszing723 said:
The winning move is not to play.imposter2.0 said:focuszing723 said:
Blimey, that's pathetic to the list too.imposter2.0 said:
That's a particularly pathetic answer.focuszing723 said:
Whataboutery alert!
What about people with motorbikes who treat the roads as a racetrack, it's a controlled legal outlet for them, rather than risking other road users and pedestrians.
Roads are dangerous and not banned, ladders, horse riding, war, bombs, nukes and lots of other stuff.
Treating the road as a 'racetrack' is not actually legal. Road use is governed by the Road Traffic Act, with speed limits n' everything. The rest of your post is just a rather pointless list of other things that might be dangerous.
I'm a pathetic, thick, stupid, d1ck.
Bloody charming.
Clearly there's a pattern emerging. Try raising your game a bit.
Ban it all, ban Humanity too.
All hail AI Robotica.
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"We are the robots, dun, dun, dun, dun..."0
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#banfun
#compulsorymudguards
#compulsoryclubmembership
#handwriningingsuburbanlife.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Seriously though, if you did ban the TT and all the other dangerous stuff it would mean that society has less of a burden to carry people..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I'm pretty sure it's already been mentioned - on more than one occasion - that nobody here has actually ever suggested 'banning' the TT.
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I take issue with mudguards, they're just practical heaven.MattFalle said:#banfun
#compulsorymudguards
#compulsoryclubmembership
#handwriningingsuburbanlife0 -
imposter2.0 said:
I'm pretty sure it's already been mentioned - on more than one occasion - that nobody here has actually ever suggested 'banning' the TT.
Quotes, speak louder than words!imposter2.5 said:The IOM TT should be banned, it's just too dangerous for people, society and the Cakestop spirit, huff.
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