S*** Small Races Thread - 2022

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  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 599
    RichN95. said:

    bm5 said:

    How does he beat Dowsett, surely they tie ?


    Has he definitely finished for the season?
    I did wonder that after l posted. Not sure

  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 599
    alan_a said:

    bm5 said:

    How does he beat Dowsett, surely they tie ?

    Higher up the GC?

    Alex was LR

    But Portre finished behind him on stage 5

    Oh the technicalities of this 😉
    Needs a UCI ruling!
    Hope you have dried out from your day in Sunderland. It was pretty sunny for the start in Durham.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Just a heads up on the fact that Mark Stewart won the overall classification of the 2.1 Turul Romaniei. (which I assume translates to the Tour of Romania)
    He did it by finishing second on stage in the ST as the winner. The stage had a climb of 25kms at 6.1%, slap bang in the middle.
    Natnael Tesfatsion led the next group home, over a minute behind.

    Race highlights are available on GCN and the ES player.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    Very strong field for the GP Fourmies, presumably due to teams fighting for points to avoid relegation. TV coverage is terrible with it seemingly being impossible for the French director and commentators to be muted so that Jez can commentate. Will be switching to Montreal as soon as it starts!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    Crash near the front at Formica with 3k to go. Just a small group left at the front then nearly a crash amongst them with 1.5k to go. Ewen won after Groenewegen went early.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    Jakobson appears to have been one of the crash victims along with a Jayco rider which may be why Groenewegen went early.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,485
    edited September 2022
    Quite nice to see old stomping grounds in Montreal.
    The u-turn is 2 blocks from where my apartment was.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    Wish at least one of these Canadian races was a proper road race. Very boring watching 18 laps of a city centre.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,485
    Pross said:

    Wish at least one of these Canadian races was a proper road race. Very boring watching 18 laps of a city centre.

    Have you seen the average Canadian open road? Very boring. 😉
    The Montreal one has always been a crit as far as I know. There will be some hills within cycling distance from the centres but then you are looking at a hill start/flat finish or no crowds.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    GP Montreal finale was decent enough in a pinch.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • notquite6foot
    notquite6foot Posts: 248
    The Canadian GPs are basically WorldTour variants of a Worlds RR finishing circuit, and as it happens Montréal are hoping to get the 2026 Worlds.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    In case anyone else missed it the GP Montreal was won by Pog who outsprinted WVA from a break of 5 riders with Bagioli third, Yates 4th and Gaudu 5th. It looks like the race was smashed to pieces which surprises me as the circuit looked less testing than the Quebec race.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Ineos smashed it to pieces. Dani Martinez attacked at the foot of the first climb on the last lap, when he was caught by a group of favourites, Adam Yates went over the top of him and pulled the winning break clear.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    andyp said:

    Ineos smashed it to pieces. Dani Martinez attacked at the foot of the first climb on the last lap, when he was caught by a group of favourites, Adam Yates went over the top of him and pulled the winning break clear.

    They seemed to want to try that in the Friday race too and all came to the front but Geraint last about 1 minute at the front before dropping off and they then got swamped, Martinez didn't have much and Yates hung onto WVA and co.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    Difference was probably just the quality and length of Yates' attack. He properly had Pogacar and WVA in the red. Pogacar had just bridged over though in phenomenal fashion. Pogacar's fatigue resistance is then just insane to recover that quickly and smash out a sprint like that.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    I suppose Pog needs to reinvent himself as a one day racer now he's finished as a GT guy :wink:
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,485
    Pross said:

    I suppose Pog needs to reinvent himself as a one day racer now he's finished as a GT guy :wink:

    Is he finished? Do we need a poll? 🤣
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    m.r.m. said:

    Difference was probably just the quality and length of Yates' attack. He properly had Pogacar and WVA in the red. Pogacar had just bridged over though in phenomenal fashion. Pogacar's fatigue resistance is then just insane to recover that quickly and smash out a sprint like that.

    What a sprint as well. Didn't catch the race but saw the sprint. So long!
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    The next few days, starting tomorrow, are very busy.
    Two stage races and no fewer than five, one day races can be viewed live, via GCN and the ES player..

    Tomorrow: The Tours of Luxembourg and Slovakia start.
    Wednesday: Add the Giro delle Toscana (Ineos with Bernal) and the GP de Wallonie (the citadel in Namur finish)
    Thursday: Add the Coppa Sabatini
    Frinday: Add the Flanders Championship
    Saturday: Add the Primus Classic.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    Seems like quite a few riders may be getting kept back from the Worlds by their teams who are prioritising the large amount of potential points available in the relegation battle.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,610
    MvdP doing GP Wallonie, and seems to be in form.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    Pross said:

    Seems like quite a few riders may be getting kept back from the Worlds by their teams who are prioritising the large amount of potential points available in the relegation battle.

    While some in the sport and some pundits are complaining about the relegation system, doesn't it actually make the dog days of cycling considerably more interesting?! 😁
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    Seems like quite a few riders may be getting kept back from the Worlds by their teams who are prioritising the large amount of potential points available in the relegation battle.

    While some in the sport and some pundits are complaining about the relegation system, doesn't it actually make the dog days of cycling considerably more interesting?! 😁

    No not really. It dilutes the fields in races people care about while they chase points in races we don't.

    When the winner of the GP Fourmies gets twice as many point as a winner of a Vuelta stage the same day, then the system is broken, or more correctly rigged towards teams from the 'traditional' countries who would be first in line for wildcards anyway. It's stiffling growth outside western Europe in favour of promoting France's sixth best team.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    True. I hadn't considered that. 😅🤭
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    RichN95. said:

    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    Seems like quite a few riders may be getting kept back from the Worlds by their teams who are prioritising the large amount of potential points available in the relegation battle.

    While some in the sport and some pundits are complaining about the relegation system, doesn't it actually make the dog days of cycling considerably more interesting?! 😁

    No not really. It dilutes the fields in races people care about while they chase points in races we don't.

    When the winner of the GP Fourmies gets twice as many point as a winner of a Vuelta stage the same day, then the system is broken, or more correctly rigged towards teams from the 'traditional' countries who would be first in line for wildcards anyway. It's stiffling growth outside western Europe in favour of promoting France's sixth best team.
    Rumour has it that the UCI are going to cave to the bleating of the threatened teams and increase the number of teams in the WT to 20. So much for rider safety!

    As it stands, IPT and Lotto would be relegated with Alpecin and Arkea promoted. Lotto would get automatic invites to all WT races. IPT would be scrabbling for wild cards. Assuming you're not going to make it a closed shop and tell the likes of Alpecin and UNO-X that they can never be WT, that seems a pretty reasonable outcome to me.

    As for the whining about the unfairness of the system, points for stage races are weighted towards the GC. The 60th placed rider in the Vuelta scored points. Also, because only the points of the top 10 riders for each team count, many of the points available in the French one-day races don't get counted. For example, the vast majority of points scored by Barguil (Arkea's top contributor) have been picked up in WT races and / or outside of France.

    And, it's not as though this was sprung on the teams as some great big surprise. They were told about this three years ago. IPT could have been entering all these French races. There's no way an organizer would turn away a WT team. Oh wait, they did enter GP Fourmies and picked up a measly 13 points. The stark reality is that IPT are so rubbish, they would be relegated whatever the system.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? IPT have put together a team of ageing riders in decline and seem surprised that this selection policy doesn't work in the existing points system. Sylvan Adams has now threatened to sue the UCI, his time would be better served reading Moneyball.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    It feels like Alpecin and Arkea are already WT teams as they seem to be at all the top races. Presumably after relegation we’ll end up with the same situation in reverse (assuming IPT don’t fold).

    Just as a counterpoint to DeadCalm’s well argued point, the WT teams are a bit more limited where they can race due to their obligation to send a team to WT races so it isn’t that easy for them to send a team to all rounds of the Coup de France for example especially when there is a GT on that requires larger teams.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    Pross said:

    It feels like Alpecin and Arkea are already WT teams as they seem to be at all the top races. Presumably after relegation we’ll end up with the same situation in reverse (assuming IPT don’t fold).

    As the top 2 pro-conti teams from last year Alpecin and Arkea get automatic invites to all WT races. As things stand, next year those invites would go to Lotto and Total Energies.
    Pross said:


    Just as a counterpoint to DeadCalm’s well argued point, the WT teams are a bit more limited where they can race due to their obligation to send a team to WT races so it isn’t that easy for them to send a team to all rounds of the Coup de France for example especially when there is a GT on that requires larger teams.

    That's a fair point, although most of the other WT teams manage to accrue sufficient points without sending teams to these races.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Just to add to that, as it stands, Israel would get automatic invites to all WT one day races.

    Worth remembering that this is evaluated every season though, while relegation/promotion is every three years. There's no guarantee that Lotto will be getting WT invites in 2024
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,205
    andyp said:

    That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? IPT have put together a team of ageing riders in decline and seem surprised that this selection policy doesn't work in the existing points system. Sylvan Adams has now threatened to sue the UCI, his time would be better served reading Moneyball.

    Relegation is something foreign to many countries......mainly NA sports.

    Saying that, the whole system needs a massive overhaul.
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."

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