S*** Small Races Thread - 2022

Echelons in Etoile as it's blowing a gale around Bellegarde.

Just sayin'
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
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Comments

  • I sense a post in the Viking thread won’t be long….
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,188
    edited February 2022
    This is why energy prices are going up. They're got three men doing the same job


    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 535
    I suppose watching the sand tour makes you appreciate the scenery and atmosphere of other races.
  • bm5 said:

    I suppose watching the sand tour makes you appreciate the scenery and atmosphere of other races.

    Valencia had that covered, yesterday.
    Glorious weather and stunning scenery for Evenepoel to ride off into the rapidly setting Sun.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • The weird thing is that Eurosport's coverage is Geo-restricted in the UK, but Tiz have made it available with English commentary on YouTube.
    Yesterday's echelon stage with Jose Been and Adam Blythe:

    https://tiz-cycling.io/video/etoile-de-besseges-2022-stage-1-full-stage/?tape=2
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,188
    Jakobsen and Groenewegen both won today. This might be the start of something interesting (and no doubt inflammed by the media)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,270
    Remco is clearly a physiological outlier - but I fear his downfall will be psychological. I’m thinking in particular of the downhilling yips. A worse fear is that his youthful exuberance, talent and competitiveness might get ahead him and put him in another situation like his bad crash…
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,188

    Remco is clearly a physiological outlier - but I fear his downfall will be psychological. I’m thinking in particular of the downhilling yips. A worse fear is that his youthful exuberance, talent and competitiveness might get ahead him and put him in another situation like his bad crash…

    His special skill is that he is freakishly aerodynamic. If he gets a gap then he's on to something. And in small races where other riders are not that engaged it works. But when it comes to big races that others have targeted, will he get that gap? He doesn't have any kind of acceleration. So what does he have?

    I think he's his generation's Richie Porte - and I hold the Tasmanian Devil in high regard. But Grand Tours? I'm a sceptic.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,140

    Remco is clearly a physiological outlier - but I fear his downfall will be psychological. I’m thinking in particular of the downhilling yips. A worse fear is that his youthful exuberance, talent and competitiveness might get ahead him and put him in another situation like his bad crash…

    Do we know whether he's done any work on this? It's no good having the engine, w/kg, etc but struggle with descending, technical skills. There does seem to be a number of riders new to the sport who haven't learnt their craft.
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • Remco is clearly a physiological outlier - but I fear his downfall will be psychological. I’m thinking in particular of the downhilling yips. A worse fear is that his youthful exuberance, talent and competitiveness might get ahead him and put him in another situation like his bad crash…

    He wasn’t much of a physiological outlier today.
    The wunderkid just had his bottom spanked by Vlasov and young Carlos Rodriguez.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,188
    Rodriguez is a year younger than him
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,105
    RichN95. said:

    Rodriguez is a year younger than him

    At what age do you reckon Rodriguez will surpass Remco's palmares? My guess is he won't achieve in his entire career what Evenepoel has done to date.

    Rodriguez's palmares to date (excluding today) according to PCS...

    4th
    GC Vuelta a Andalucia Ruta Ciclista Del Sol ('21)
    2nd
    stage Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana ('22)
    10th
    GC Tour of Britain ('21)
    7th
    GP Industria & Artigianato ('21)
    3rd
    stage Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana ('22)
    2nd
    GC Tour de l'Avenir ('21)
    17th
    GC Tour de la Provence ('21)
    33rd
    GC Critérium du Dauphiné ('21)
    44th
    stage UAE Tour ('20)
    stage Tour de l'Avenir ('21)
    27th
    stage Critérium du Dauphiné ('21)
    37th
    KOM Critérium du Dauphiné ('21)

    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,188
    edited February 2022
    DeadCalm said:

    RichN95. said:

    Rodriguez is a year younger than him

    At what age do you reckon Rodriguez will surpass Remco's palmares? My guess is he won't achieve in his entire career what Evenepoel has done to date.

    I think your missing my point. Evenepoel is no longer the wonderkid if he's getting beaten by younger riders.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,105
    RichN95. said:

    DeadCalm said:

    RichN95. said:

    Rodriguez is a year younger than him

    At what age do you reckon Rodriguez will surpass Remco's palmares? My guess is he won't achieve in his entire career what Evenepoel has done to date.

    I think your missing my point. Evenepoel is no longer the youngster. He's now getting beaten by younger riders.
    I think you are missing my point. Evenepoel has always been beatable, by younger riders (and older riders too) on days that don't suit him. He's still going to have a way better palmares than the vast majority of them though.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,188
    edited February 2022
    DeadCalm said:



    I think you are missing my point. Evenepoel has always been beatable, by younger riders (and older riders too) on days that don't suit him. He's still going to have a way better palmares than the vast majority of them though.

    We'll see. It's mostly training races that he's won so far.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,491
    The problem Evenepoel will always have is the hype. Lefevre uses him to attract sponsors and has no consideration for the effect it has on the him.

    Re Rich's point, It doesn't matter if younger riders are beating him cos he'll never beat Pogacer who's only a little older.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,767
    edited February 2022
    That was a cracking climb today.

    I'm back in "on season" mood.
  • However one views Evenepoel’s “progression”, I can’t see him adding Strade Bianche to his palmares any time soon. Sterrato did for him at the Giro and he looked all at sea on it again today.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,369
    I'm with Rich on this one. Remco is so aerodynamic he can ride 50 km/h pedaling just 300W. Other tier 1 riders (Roglic, Pogacar, non-injured Bernal) can easily close to his wheel due to his lack of snap.
    It's similar to Sep Vanmarcke. Sep also lacks the sprint and snap to distance other classics riders and hence hardly wins the big races.
    Routinely just riding someone off your wheel is asking for too much in the big leagues.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,140

    However one views Evenepoel’s “progression”, I can’t see him adding Strade Bianche to his palmares any time soon. Sterrato did for him at the Giro and he looked all at sea on it again today.

    No; during that Giro stage, Nathan Haas tweeted on the difference between Remco & Bernal; those who are brought up on it, (Bernal) know how to ride it, with the bike moving around under them.
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • amrushton
    amrushton Posts: 1,257
    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,653
    amrushton said:

    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.

    Is anyone?
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,491
    mrb123 said:

    amrushton said:

    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.

    Is anyone?
    I reckon Bernal could've done on something really high. But that won't be happening anytime soon
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,557
    mrb123 said:

    amrushton said:

    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.

    Is anyone?
    Vingegaard has. Pogacar is an incredible rider, but he's not unbeatable.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,491

    mrb123 said:

    amrushton said:

    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.

    Is anyone?
    Vingegaard has. Pogacar is an incredible rider, but he's not unbeatable.
    He didn't get very far
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,557
    gsk82 said:

    mrb123 said:

    amrushton said:

    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.

    Is anyone?
    Vingegaard has. Pogacar is an incredible rider, but he's not unbeatable.
    He didn't get very far
    He had about 40s at the top and was only brought back on the descent. Pogacar himself said he pushed too hard trying to stay with him and had to ease off and try and manage the gap.

    He literally rode away from Pogacar on a decent climb.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,094
    I see Ganna won the TT yesterday.
  • I see Ganna won the TT yesterday.

    Following our conversation in the rugby thread, throughout Etoile de Besseges, Adam Blythe has referred to him and Ghana.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,646
    Hype for Vingegaard is hardly gonna be low, given the Tour starts in Denmark this year.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,369

    gsk82 said:

    mrb123 said:

    amrushton said:

    Others know his weakness and can exploit it. Schleck on a wet descent was always good for complaints. Remco on gravel or a tricky descent may be another. He isn't going to be riding away from Pogacar on any decent climb.

    Is anyone?
    Vingegaard has. Pogacar is an incredible rider, but he's not unbeatable.
    He didn't get very far
    He had about 40s at the top and was only brought back on the descent. Pogacar himself said he pushed too hard trying to stay with him and had to ease off and try and manage the gap.

    He literally rode away from Pogacar on a decent climb.
    Once. When Pogacar already had a decent lead.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023