Cars, cars, cars...

pinno

Stevo_666 said:

veronese68 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

photonic69 said:

One of the big costs of EVs is the battery. People have range anxiety so the manufacturers have to factor in large and heavy batteries. If the UK develops a good charging infrastructure network with easy charging* then they can produce smaller, lighter, cheaper cars albeit with less range. Most people on average do 17 miles a day in their car. Pointless having one that does 300 on a charge. It's a bit like obsessively keeping your fuel tank brimmed even when going to the shop and back.

*(it's never going to happen under this government)

Not every day is average though so until that charging network is in place range anxiety is just common sense.

Indeed, half the mileage my car does in a year is bimbling about. The other half is driving to Italy and back. Rather different in way of demand for energy.

Good point. A fair bit of my driving is shortish journeys - maybe 30 miles in a day. But I head North and West to see friends and family quite often and I really don't want to be hanging around waiting for my car to charge (or waiting for a charger), especially when I'm travelling late evening.

Be honest - you wat a fast car to get you out of scouse land without stopping.

Stevo_666

pinno said:

Stevo_666 said:

veronese68 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

photonic69 said:

One of the big costs of EVs is the battery. People have range anxiety so the manufacturers have to factor in large and heavy batteries. If the UK develops a good charging infrastructure network with easy charging* then they can produce smaller, lighter, cheaper cars albeit with less range. Most people on average do 17 miles a day in their car. Pointless having one that does 300 on a charge. It's a bit like obsessively keeping your fuel tank brimmed even when going to the shop and back.

*(it's never going to happen under this government)

Not every day is average though so until that charging network is in place range anxiety is just common sense.

Indeed, half the mileage my car does in a year is bimbling about. The other half is driving to Italy and back. Rather different in way of demand for energy.

Good point. A fair bit of my driving is shortish journeys - maybe 30 miles in a day. But I head North and West to see friends and family quite often and I really don't want to be hanging around waiting for my car to charge (or waiting for a charger), especially when I'm travelling late evening.

Be honest - you wat a fast car to get you out of scouse land without stopping.

That as well.

skyblueamateur

I have an Ioniq 5 and love it but EV’s aren’t yet there. Around town and on short journeys it is mega. I get around 4.6kwh to the mile which is higher than the stated 280 mile range.

On longer runs is nearer 3.8-4kwh but that is on the proviso of not battering it and not having any heating on.

When I’m on my own on business trips it’s not an issue as I just put the heated seats and steering wheel on. Not the case when I’ve got the kids in the car. Need the heating on and I assume in summer will need the AC on. This knocks 40 mile off the range.

The infrastructure isn’t there yet in this country either. I charge solely at work with solar panels. If using the charging network and quick chargers it is as expensive to fill up as an ICE.

Cars with a battery with stated range of less than 200 miles would be pretty useless to be fair.

I’m happy I made the purchase but still have the wife’s XC40 for any drive over 250 mile. I just don’t trust the infrastructure yet.

focuszing723

skyblueamateur said:

I have an Ioniq 5 and love it but EV’s aren’t yet there. Around town and on short journeys it is mega. I get around 4.6kwh to the mile which is higher than the stated 280 mile range.

On longer runs is nearer 3.8-4kwh but that is on the proviso of not battering it and not having any heating on.

When I’m on my own on business trips it’s not an issue as I just put the heated seats and steering wheel on. Not the case when I’ve got the kids in the car. Need the heating on and I assume in summer will need the AC on. This knocks 40 mile off the range.

The infrastructure isn’t there yet in this country either. I charge solely at work with solar panels. If using the charging network and quick chargers it is as expensive to fill up as an ICE.

Cars with a battery with stated range of less than 200 miles would be pretty useless to be fair.

I’m happy I made the purchase but still have the wife’s XC40 for any drive over 250 mile. I just don’t trust the infrastructure yet.

Cheers, nice looking car.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

veronese68 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

photonic69 said:

One of the big costs of EVs is the battery. People have range anxiety so the manufacturers have to factor in large and heavy batteries. If the UK develops a good charging infrastructure network with easy charging* then they can produce smaller, lighter, cheaper cars albeit with less range. Most people on average do 17 miles a day in their car. Pointless having one that does 300 on a charge. It's a bit like obsessively keeping your fuel tank brimmed even when going to the shop and back.

*(it's never going to happen under this government)

Not every day is average though so until that charging network is in place range anxiety is just common sense.

Indeed, half the mileage my car does in a year is bimbling about. The other half is driving to Italy and back. Rather different in way of demand for energy.

Good point. A fair bit of my driving is shortish journeys - maybe 30 miles in a day. But I head North and West to see friends and family quite often and I really don't want to be hanging around waiting for my car to charge (or waiting for a charger), especially when I'm travelling late evening.

A half hour break on a 300 mile journey whilst the car is recharging isn't too big a deal though. When I was was regularly driving long distances I tried to minimise stops but would probably have had a break of about that length on most of them. The problem is that there often aren't enough chargers and those there are aren't the fast ones so that half hour becomes much longer. Or, worse still, you leave it as long a spossible to recharge then pull into services to find none of them working. I was thinking of going full electric a couple of years ago when it was quite a bit cheaper to run them, getting a car through the company I was working for, but that was what put me off. I felt 400 miles was about the cut off as I very rarely did that many miles in a day plus I would want a reasonable amount of contingency. PHEV still feels the best option to me.

Pross

Anyway, on the 'joys' of owning an ICE car. My wife has had a problem with the turbo on her Mini and had a quote of £1500 to replace it with a recondition one. It's an old car (2006) so usually we would be reluctant to fork out that much but with used car prices as they are and hers valued at £2500 we decided to bite the bullet and get it repaired. When it finally went into the garage they discovered it had previously had work done on the turbo but it had been bodged and to put it all right the bill would be £2500!

We had talked about getting by with just one car but having been trying that for the last few weeks concluded that, whilst it was possible 90% of the time the other 10% made it too much hassle. It wouldn't be completely impossible but would just limit what one of us could do, mainly on weekends. Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

Wheelspinner

Pross said:

Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

What year/series?

Pross

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

What year/series?

Think it's 2008

rick_chasey

Would it work without the turbo?

Wheelspinner

Pross said:

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

What year/series?

Think it's 2008

E61 then.

I had one of those in 530i version for 11 years. Currently driving the updated F11 series 535i Touring from 2012.

Lovely cars, super comfortable for long drives. I did plenty of 1000km days in my old one, no problem at all.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Would it work without the turbo?

It's very sluggish, also leads to engine light coming on so would fail its MOT I believe.

Pross

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

What year/series?

Think it's 2008

E61 then.

I had one of those in 530i version for 11 years. Currently driving the updated F11 series 535i Touring from 2012.

Lovely cars, super comfortable for long drives. I did plenty of 1000km days in my old one, no problem at all.

Hoping to take it for a drive later. The interior isn't easy on the eye with beige leather seats and trim plus fairly incongruous walnut inserts but should be a decent drive. It's the 525d auto. My only other experience with BMW was the 3 series compact (I had both versions as my first two company cars).

Wheelspinner

Pross said:

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

What year/series?

Think it's 2008

E61 then.

I had one of those in 530i version for 11 years. Currently driving the updated F11 series 535i Touring from 2012.

Lovely cars, super comfortable for long drives. I did plenty of 1000km days in my old one, no problem at all.

Hoping to take it for a drive later. The interior isn't easy on the eye with beige leather seats and trim plus fairly incongruous walnut inserts but should be a decent drive. It's the 525d auto. My only other experience with BMW was the 3 series compact (I had both versions as my first two company cars).

Yeah mine had the beige leather interior, but black wood trim. Was optioned up and had the most comfortable seats I've ever used, plus a killer hifi.

The diesel is probably a better option too. My old petrol one was still good for around 8L/100km on highway driving, but a bit over 10 in town average.

Sunroof? That's a cause of issues later on if it does...

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Would it work without the turbo?

It's very sluggish, also leads to engine light coming on so would fail its MOT I believe.

Annoying. I guess if the engine is optimised for a turbo then it's not ideal if it's not running.

Wheelspinner

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Would it work without the turbo?

It's very sluggish, also leads to engine light coming on so would fail its MOT I believe.

Annoying. I guess if the engine is optimised for a turbo then it's not ideal if it's not running.

Er, that's an understatement... :-)

Munsford0

A pipe fell off the turbo on my diesel Passat. Acceleration became almost imperceptible...

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

veronese68 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

photonic69 said:

One of the big costs of EVs is the battery. People have range anxiety so the manufacturers have to factor in large and heavy batteries. If the UK develops a good charging infrastructure network with easy charging* then they can produce smaller, lighter, cheaper cars albeit with less range. Most people on average do 17 miles a day in their car. Pointless having one that does 300 on a charge. It's a bit like obsessively keeping your fuel tank brimmed even when going to the shop and back.

*(it's never going to happen under this government)

Not every day is average though so until that charging network is in place range anxiety is just common sense.

Indeed, half the mileage my car does in a year is bimbling about. The other half is driving to Italy and back. Rather different in way of demand for energy.

Good point. A fair bit of my driving is shortish journeys - maybe 30 miles in a day. But I head North and West to see friends and family quite often and I really don't want to be hanging around waiting for my car to charge (or waiting for a charger), especially when I'm travelling late evening.

A half hour break on a 300 mile journey whilst the car is recharging isn't too big a deal though. When I was was regularly driving long distances I tried to minimise stops but would probably have had a break of about that length on most of them. The problem is that there often aren't enough chargers and those there are aren't the fast ones so that half hour becomes much longer. Or, worse still, you leave it as long a spossible to recharge then pull into services to find none of them working. I was thinking of going full electric a couple of years ago when it was quite a bit cheaper to run them, getting a car through the company I was working for, but that was what put me off. I felt 400 miles was about the cut off as I very rarely did that many miles in a day plus I would want a reasonable amount of contingency. PHEV still feels the best option to me.

As you say, 30 minutes is probably pretty optimistic - especially where there is no charger (fast or otherwise) immediately available. I'm sure the tech will develop, but for now the only thing that gets me from A to B with only a 5 minute p!$$ stop is an internal combustion engine car.

pinno

rick_chasey said:

Would it work without the turbo?

No.
Turbo charging is an extremely efficient method of aspiration.
Compression ratios of engines with turbo's are reduced because the compression of the air driven by the turbo effectively creates higher compression.
If you remove the Turbo, the engine will run very inefficiently.

I have a BMW M turbo diesel. Driven properly, I will get 55mpg. Driven badly, I can get as little as 20mpg.

Stevo_666

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

Would it work without the turbo?

Turbo charging is an extremely efficient method of aspiration.

True that. The previous version of my car had a 6.2l naturally aspirated V8: the downsized the engine to 4l V8 biturbo: more power, more torque and less petrol consumption. And still sounds great.

rick_chasey

I always thought turbo's were less fuel efficient? I guess not.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

I always thought turbo's were less fuel efficient? I guess not.

Nope. It's also why quite a lot of small cars now have low capacity turbocharged engines.

pinno

rick_chasey said:

I always thought turbo's were less fuel efficient? I guess not.

It depends on the size of your right foot.
1980's and 1990's turbo's were terrible affairs but they have become so much more sophisticated.
The Focus and the Fiesta's are fitted with 1 Litre Turbo charged engines and the Skoda Octavia and Superb have options for a 1.5 lite TC engine. They are big cars and they have fantastic fuel economy (if driven properly).
A friend of mine bought a brand new Octavia 1.5L 4 years and loves it to bits.

The only problem is, the smaller TC engines are pretty stressed little units and don't see 125 to 150k.

More on that later... kids to drop off.

photonic69

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

I always thought turbo's were less fuel efficient? I guess not.

The only problem is, the smaller TC engines are pretty stressed little units and don't see 125 to 150k.

More on that later... kids to drop off.

Not strictly true. The guys at work have had a BMW i8 on the chassis dyno running at full tilt for hours at a time under all load conditions, It's been round race tracks and road driving and done over 200,000 miles. THe engine is still as sweet as a nut apparently. I asked them as I thought the same as you. All engines are very well built (from the major players) But NOT Jaguar Landrover. They are sh!te.

Pross

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Wheelspinner said:

Pross said:

Luckily my daughter's boyfriend is selling one of the cars he bought when setting up his business last year so we're now getting a BMW 525 Tourer for less than the repair cost would have been and the wife is offloading the current car to We Buy Any Car. It's a bit bigger than we would like as a second car but my car isn't huge and will probably be the one driven daily.

What year/series?

Think it's 2008

E61 then.

I had one of those in 530i version for 11 years. Currently driving the updated F11 series 535i Touring from 2012.

Lovely cars, super comfortable for long drives. I did plenty of 1000km days in my old one, no problem at all.

Hoping to take it for a drive later. The interior isn't easy on the eye with beige leather seats and trim plus fairly incongruous walnut inserts but should be a decent drive. It's the 525d auto. My only other experience with BMW was the 3 series compact (I had both versions as my first two company cars).

Yeah mine had the beige leather interior, but black wood trim. Was optioned up and had the most comfortable seats I've ever used, plus a killer hifi.

The diesel is probably a better option too. My old petrol one was still good for around 8L/100km on highway driving, but a bit over 10 in town average.

Sunroof? That's a cause of issues later on if it does...

Took it for a spin last night, 15 miles each way on a mixture of dual carriageways, built-up areas and a section of 40mph rural A road. I now understand the reputation the 5 series has always had. It's a 2007 car with 160,000 miles on the clock but everything still felt smooth and firm. Much as I like my Qashaqai I now realise how badly it rolls and how noisy the engine is in comparison. I had to put some fuel in and had a bit of a doubt that it was a diesel at one point. Didn't push it at all as it was wet and horrible out, I was generally very light on the accelerator but did press the pedal down a couple of times and the constant, smooth delivery of power was great.

It wasn't as fun to drive as the Mini Cooper D I had from new in 2008 but I don't think I've driven any other car that felt so good. Hoping the wife decides to by it as it will be the first time I'll be happy for her to use my car and leave me hers to drive around (she's had some shockers!).

pinno

photonic69 said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

I always thought turbo's were less fuel efficient? I guess not.

The only problem is, the smaller TC engines are pretty stressed little units and don't see 125 to 150k.

More on that later... kids to drop off.

Not strictly true. The guys at work have had a BMW i8 on the chassis dyno running at full tilt for hours at a time under all load conditions, It's been round race tracks and road driving and done over 200,000 miles. THe engine is still as sweet as a nut apparently. I asked them as I thought the same as you. All engines are very well built (from the major players) But NOT Jaguar Landrover. They are sh!te.

No hang on - you got me wrong.
The smaller turbo charged engines do not have so much endurance. The slightly bigger one's are much better.
The 1L Ford engines I know are fickle*. Others around the 1000cc mark too.
It seems to currently be the capacity that has the most problems. 1.5 and above seem to have much better longevity.

I expect that BMW engine is far better quality than the Ford units.

Time will tell and technology will move on temporarily (before everyone goes electric). VW recently built a 1.0L Golf/Polo engine. Down from the 1.2 previously.
Jaguars are shyte. They have engines built by Ingenium.
Consider the ICE's built by say, the Mitsubishi who supply many other motor companies. Long history of supplying quality units.

*Cam lobes on all engines are interference fit and not part of the casting. they have a reputation for moving and you can imagine the consequences of that.

DeVlaeminck

I've heard the 0.9 twin-air turbo unit Fiat (maybe others too) is problematic unless the correct oil is used and changed regularly - something to do with a valve related to the turbo getting clogged up - apparently not a cheap fix.

I've been looking for a cheapish second car recently and the Ford Ecoboost engines seem to be a common one to avoid - internal (hence hideously expensive to replace) cambelt that doesn't last as long as they expected. Apparently Ford now say it's a 10 year lifetime - and again that's with regular oil changes and the correct spec oil.

Second gen (early petrol) Skoda Fabia vrs also prone to premature engine failure.

With the cost of used cars and even 10 year old vehicles in decent nick commanding good money it does make buying anything out of warranty but not a complete shed you can afford to write off something of a gamble.

photonic69

pinno said:

photonic69 said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

I always thought turbo's were less fuel efficient? I guess not.

The only problem is, the smaller TC engines are pretty stressed little units and don't see 125 to 150k.

More on that later... kids to drop off.

Not strictly true. The guys at work have had a BMW i8 on the chassis dyno running at full tilt for hours at a time under all load conditions, It's been round race tracks and road driving and done over 200,000 miles. THe engine is still as sweet as a nut apparently. I asked them as I thought the same as you. All engines are very well built (from the major players) But NOT Jaguar Landrover. They are sh!te.

No hang on - you got me wrong.
The smaller turbo charged engines do not have so much endurance. The slightly bigger one's are much better.
The 1L Ford engines I know are fickle*. Others around the 1000cc mark too.
It seems to currently be the capacity that has the most problems. 1.5 and above seem to have much better longevity.

I expect that BMW engine is far better quality than the Ford units.

Time will tell and technology will move on temporarily (before everyone goes electric). VW recently built a 1.0L Golf/Polo engine. Down from the 1.2 previously.
Jaguars are shyte. They have engines built by Ingenium.
Consider the ICE's built by say, the Mitsubishi who supply many other motor companies. Long history of supplying quality units.

*Cam lobes on all engines are interference fit and not part of the casting. they have a reputation for moving and you can imagine the consequences of that.

The BMW i8 engine is a 3 pot 1.5ltr engine. I did discuss the smaller 1.0ltr and smaller 3 pot engines in other cars and queried the stress they must be under, but the research boffins were confident that these new, small engines will outlast the use of the car. Most people don't look after their cars once it's past 3-5 years old. They skimp on servicing, cleaning, and general care etc. By the time it's 10-12 years old it's almost worthless to most people. In this time it's done 100-130,000 miles at most. That is the life of the car. If it does more then good but a lot will be written off or scapped.
I, on the other hand, look after my cars. Always change the oil and use proper spec oils and filters. I expect my current 19 year old car to last a good deal longer and exceed 200,000 miles. Yes, it's a 2.0ltr diesel lump but I'd expect a petrol to last teh same.

Stevo_666

pinno said:

No hang on - you got me wrong.
The smaller turbo charged engines do not have so much endurance. The slightly bigger one's are much better.

Best play it safe and have a big turbocharged engine then

focuszing723

https://twitter.com/aptera_motors/status/1639341196639350786

pinno

Insane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TptzkkbC1vE