Cars, cars, cars...

DeVlaeminck

I was actually the designer of this beauty - I didn't realise until I found an old picture of a car I drew when I was three years old and it's clear Lancia somehow stole the design. I do think they are right up there as one of the best looking cars - used to do gardening work for an old guy who ran a car restoration business and he had one in his barn.

Pross

pinno said:

First.Aspect said:

pinno said:

For a larger picture, visit:

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/img/Bugatti-Type-57-SC-Atlantic-Coupe-2105.html

To me, the most beautiful car ever built.

The Batmobile looks like it sort of. Even uglier than a 911.

FTFY

Your turn to post what you think is a good looking car.

Aston Martin DB5 for me although a D type Jag and Ferrari 250 GTO run it close.

I went to France in 1990 and didn't realise until I got on the ferry that it was Le Mans weekend, there was someone getting on in a D type being interviewed by a local news crew. Not sure I'd have been risking it on a ferry, only 16 road legal versions were made!

pinno

I prefer the DB4. I think it is a more elegant vehicle but the lines aren't particularly flowing.

DeVlaeminck said:

I was actually the designer of this beauty - I didn't realise until I found an old picture of a car I drew when I was three years old and it's clear Lancia somehow stole the design. I do think they are right up there as one of the best looking cars - used to do gardening work for an old guy who ran a car restoration business and he had one in his barn.

Compare:

...and

Pross

Yeah was a bit of a toss up between a DB4 and DB5 to be honest.

First.Aspect

pinno said:

First.Aspect said:

Or if you insist on having a rear engined cars with shitty air cooled engines, a Carmen Ghia.

Karmann.

If you're going to taunt me, at least get it right.
Mine's water cooled thank you.
The last air cooled 911 was the 993 produced after the 964 from 93(?) to 98(?). All editions since are water cooled.
Flat 6 Boxster engines: sh1.t off a shovel.

First.Aspect said:

The original GT40 had a pleasing functional aesthetic.

What?! Horrible thing. Ford won Le man in it and then gave up their interest (won with privateers after that). A fleeting moment in motorsport history where they chucked millions of US dollars at it and put a huge low revving lump in it. Because all Ford wanted to do was beat Ferrari.
Crush the lot of them.

I get that you like the 911, but the engine is fundamentally in the wrong place. This unbalances the styling. It is also not a sensible engineering solution in terms of performance. Part of the visual appeal of a car is whether or not it is a good engineering design, so a mid-engined car wins on that count every time if it is a performance car.

Also, it is a bit misleading to refer to it as a 911 as a single car, any more so than a "Ford Cortina" - which was really four cars with a common name. The original one was actually quite pretty - in the same sort of a VW beetle derivative sort of a way as the Ghia.

If I did go for a Porsche, it would be the 928, for looks. Way ahead of its time.

DeVlaeminck

pinno said:

I prefer the DB4. I think it is a more elegant vehicle but the lines aren't particularly flowing.

DeVlaeminck said:

I was actually the designer of this beauty - I didn't realise until I found an old picture of a car I drew when I was three years old and it's clear Lancia somehow stole the design. I do think they are right up there as one of the best looking cars - used to do gardening work for an old guy who ran a car restoration business and he had one in his barn.

Compare:

...and

I knew someone would point this out - I actually like all three though the Lancia the most - is the middle one a Fiat? I like the MK2 Cortina too which is along similar boxy lines.

There is a biggish 1970s Fiat saloon I like - an acquaintance had one - can't remember the model.

It's actually a regret that I don't have enough mechanical aptitude to own a classic - plus I use the garage for zwifting.

First.Aspect

Although owning a classic is a nice pipe dream (I'd need to rent or purchase a garage somewhere) my main issue with them is safety. I use up all of my "First Aspect died doing something he loved" budget cycling.

Wheelspinner

Pross said:

Yeah was a bit of a toss up between a DB4 and DB5 to be honest.

Mate of mine actually had one of the DB4's. Think there were only ever 5 imported to Australia.

I helped* him do some resto/repair work on it, but he gave up when the cost of parts meant he needed a second mortgage on the house to finance it.

He wanted a new set of pistons and rings. Contacted Aston Martin and was told they'd be delighted to forge him some, which would take several months and cost approximately GBP1000 ex-works UK.

Each.

In 1984.

* I passed him spanners and made coffee as instructed. Spent the idle moments hand-polishing the rebuilt Borrani wire-spoke wheels.

pinno

First.Aspect said:

I get that you like the 911, but the engine is fundamentally in the wrong place. This unbalances the styling. It is also not a sensible engineering solution in terms of performance. Part of the visual appeal of a car is whether or not it is a good engineering design, so a mid-engined car wins on that count every time if it is a performance car.

Why is the engine fundamentally in the wrong place?
The 993 (as mentioned previously) was the first 911 to have the engine and box moved forward to the extent that one could call it a mid engine vehicle, though that's arbitrary. Shifting the engine forward meant a different balance and suspension set up.
...and a mid engine car 'wins on performance'?!
The current Porsche 911 GT3 sets a standard that no other car can compete with... this is where you go searching for some 800bhp Lamborghini and that is where you will trip up because for you will not get another supercar for the same money and performance @ £150k; there is nothing out there that can stay with it for the same money.
The title of widow maker has long gone - that was the label given to the turbo charged 964.
The grip and traction you get from the 911 is unbelievable. In fact, I have only come unstuck when I had a bit of understeer but managed to control it and that was because of worn front tyres.
I can get the back end of my perfectly balanced front engine, rear wheel drive 944 to 'pop out' more easily than the 911.

So, the idea that the position of the engine in the 911 makes it an inherently unbalanced car is somewhat presumptive from 2 perspectives. It was unbalanced but tyre technology and a revamp of the back end configuration has moved on since the infamous 964 'widow maker'. However, that's not the whole picture:
1. The weight near the driving wheels provides lots of (potential) traction. The traction gained from putting weight over the rear wheels helps it corner fast but is very dependent on:
2. Porsche discovered the relationship between how the front end influences the back end and vice versa with the Group C Le Mans 962c in an unexpected way.
The traction (different from tyre grip) is determined partly by the front suspension. I'e, the front is the 'pivot' on which the back end relies on and rear end downforce affects the way the front end behaves - and ultimately, how the car corners.

Therefore, you cannot say 'Part of the visual appeal of a car is whether or not it is a good engineering design, so a mid-engined car wins on that count every time if it is a performance car. ' because basically, that is an incorrect presumption. It varies form model to model.
The sheer quantity of engineering and electronics deployed to mitigate the current stock of (often over-powered) mid engine cars is astonishing. That implies a certain fundamental flaw in the theory that mid engine vehicles are somehow better. Its also a naïve presumptive in that mid engine = balance and great handling. It is how the whole package is constructed. A good example is the AMG Mercedes - front engined, rear wheel driven GT3 car that has left the mid engined Ferrari's, McLaren's et al behind in that racing category in the past few years.
An example of how the whole package is put together rather than the basic premise that mid engine = the best configuration.

The 911 sets the benchmark to which all other similar priced cars perform.

pinno

Oh - and the 928: bloody unreliable. Heavy front end. Never cornered as well as it's little brother the 944 turbo.

928 - overpriced fugly.

focuszing723

Tesla is to recall more than 475,000 cars in the US, according to documents filed with the US safety regulator.

The electric vehicle firm announced it was recalling 356,309 vehicles because of potential rear-view camera issues affecting 2017-2020 Model 3 Teslas.

A further 119,009 Model S vehicles will also be recalled because of potential problems with the front trunk, or boot.

The total recall figure is almost equivalent to the 500,000 cars Tesla delivered last year, Reuters reports.

The BBC has approached Tesla for comment.

A safety report, submitted this month, estimates that around 1% of recalled Model 3s may have a defective rear-view camera.

Over time "repeated opening and closing of the trunk lid" may cause excessive wear to a cable that provides the rear-view camera feed, says a Safety Recall report submitted by Tesla to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in the US on the 21 December.

If the wear causes the core of the cable to separate "the rear-view camera feed is not visible on the centre display", the report notes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59818800

Just for clarification, that's a lot of cars.

rick_chasey

Luckily musk dumped his stock *just before* they announced that.

First.Aspect

Can you point to a single rear engined racing car in automotive history that hasn't been a 911 taken racing?

Absolutely no one, even Porsche if what you say about their efforts to move the weight forward is anything to go by, thinks that putting a mass behind the rear axle is a good idea - all other things being equal. Hence no one else has done it again. Even Porsche for their more recent hypercars. Why is that?

Anyhow it is about looks. A mid engined car is better proportioned. So is a front engined car. I'm sure 911s are great to drive though, despite having a big bottom.

masjer

First.Aspect said:

Anyhow it is about looks. A mid engined car is better proportioned. So is a front engined car. I'm sure 911s are great to drive though, despite having a big bottom.

Not all mid-engined are aesthetically beautiful.

Wheelspinner

masjer said:

First.Aspect said:

Anyhow it is about looks. A mid engined car is better proportioned. So is a front engined car. I'm sure 911s are great to drive though, despite having a big bottom.

Not all mid-engined are aesthetically beautiful.

Yeah but those were a hoot to drive. :-)

masjer

Only to be used under the cover of darkness.

masjer

As a money no object classic, I've always loved these. Merc 300sl.

First.Aspect

Wheelspinner said:

masjer said:

First.Aspect said:

Anyhow it is about looks. A mid engined car is better proportioned. So is a front engined car. I'm sure 911s are great to drive though, despite having a big bottom.

Not all mid-engined are aesthetically beautiful.

Yeah but those were a hoot to drive. :-)

That's a design only it's mother could love.

Wheelspinner

First.Aspect said:

Wheelspinner said:

masjer said:

First.Aspect said:

Anyhow it is about looks. A mid engined car is better proportioned. So is a front engined car. I'm sure 911s are great to drive though, despite having a big bottom.

Not all mid-engined are aesthetically beautiful.

Yeah but those were a hoot to drive. :-)

That's a design only it's mother could love.

I'd pick one of those over an awfully long list of other cars, any day.

It's cousin was more fun.

focuszing723

rick_chasey said:

Luckily musk dumped his stock *just before* they announced that.

Isn't he planning to pay an enormous amount of Tax because he asked the population via twitter whether or not he should?

focuszing723

I think the Lancia Delta Integralia

masjer said:

As a money no object classic, I've always loved these. Merc 300sl.

Yep, I like the newer SLS too.

focuszing723

You can't argue with the Lotus Elise either, a great enthusiasts car.

MattFalle

masjer said:

As a money no object classic, I've always loved these. Merc 300sl.

yes, that.

or one of those 1960s Ferraris.

MattFalle

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Luckily musk dumped his stock *just before* they announced that.

Isn't he planning to pay an enormous amount of Tax because he asked the population via twitter whether or not he should?

so you're saying that he's going to pay tax on the lower value of stock after this announcement?

Shurely shome mishtake.....

MattFalle

Anyhow, its just a minor recall in the grand dcheme of things. This stuff happens all the time so its not actually a biggie.

the Anaconda had to go in for something a couple of years ago and I'd wager wuite a lot of Ananananacondas have been sold over the years and i didn't see Honda's stock value CRASH and PLUMMET like a clubbie down a local slope.

focuszing723

MattFalle said:

Anyhow, its just a minor recall in the grand dcheme of things. This stuff happens all the time so its not actually a biggie.

the Anaconda had to go in for something a couple of years ago and I'd wager wuite a lot of Ananananacondas have been sold over the years and i didn't see Honda's stock value CRASH and PLUMMET like a clubbie down a local slope.

Yeah, sure. It just amazes me why it doesn't happen more given how complex a car is to produce. Tesla have been going for 19 odd years, 19!

Musk has been quoted as saying, "Designing products is the easy bit, it's mass production at cost which is 100 times more difficult". Something like that.

MattFalle

French cars.

DS and the ilk, even a CX is far cooler than 98% of other stuff.

Stevo_666

MattFalle said:

French cars.

DS and the ilk, even a CX is far cooler than 98% of other stuff.

My old 205 GTI was pretty cool. Mainly because the heater kept breaking. Great fun car, made out of Kit Kat wrappers and sticky back plastic.

MattFalle

just, just, just, i think i've messed myself.

imagine TDLW in that. just frickin' amazin'.

Everything else is just trash, pure and simple.

masjer

It's got a certain Je ne sais quoi. I'd somehow be a bit self-conscious driving it though. Maybe I'd have to start smoking Gauloise.