Cars, cars, cars...
Comments
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They are a bit squeaky inside I'm told. And I do like lumbar support. So it's a no from me.focuszing723 said:
I would mention a certain electrical vehicle with a good charging infrastructure, but I won't because people on here are rather nasty and rather impolite.Stevo_666 said:I prefer practical supercars.
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Horses for courses.First.Aspect said:
Want, can't have. No space for 3 cars, need a car I can rack a 25 ft boat, oars and put a rigger in the back of.
Out of mine too. My 911 cost half the average price of this lot:First.Aspect said:Otherwise I might have something like an F type. That's about my budget limit.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/cars/sale/jaguar/f-type
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I've been seriously considering a van based vehicle as my next car. Problem is the demonisation of diesel engines and not sure I want a petrol engine in a van. Also been considering a van based camper though in which case I'd just stay with a 'normal' car. Would probably go electric if I still had a company car though.0
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Yes it's a bad time to like cars. I don't think electric cars are ready - far too heavy and compromised by infrastructure and going to be rendered instantly obsolete by rapidly evolving technology. ICUs about to be banned by governments, rendering them almost worthless.
Going to hang on to mine for a bit but I won't be getting another nice petrol or diesel car I don't think.0 -
Pross said:
I've been seriously considering a van based vehicle as my next car. Problem is the demonisation of diesel engines and not sure I want a petrol engine in a van. Also been considering a van based camper though in which case I'd just stay with a 'normal' car. Would probably go electric if I still had a company car though.
The thing about diesel engines is they are better for the climate (lower co2) but worse for human health (particulates). If you're not using it in built-up areas, I can't see the problem -other than the stigma.0 -
I'm sure I'll get round to them eventually, but happy with the estate version of the last of the V8 interceptors for now.focuszing723 said:
I would mention a certain electrical vehicle with a good charging infrastructure, but I won't because people on here are rather nasty and rather impolite.Stevo_666 said:I prefer practical supercars.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm surprised Sony are trying to get in on the EV market.0
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I agree - I am struggling to believe the 2030 thang is really going to happen at the moment.First.Aspect said:Yes it's a bad time to like cars. I don't think electric cars are ready - far too heavy and compromised by infrastructure and going to be rendered instantly obsolete by rapidly evolving technology. ICUs about to be banned by governments, rendering them almost worthless.
Going to hang on to mine for a bit but I won't be getting another nice petrol or diesel car I don't think.
(even more so the 2035 thang for motorbikes)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Petrol cars accounted for fewer than 50pc of total sales last month, with electric car giant Tesla becoming the best-selling brand in the UK.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2022/01/06/petrol-accounts-less-half-new-car-sales-last-month/
New electric cars made up just over a quarter of the total sold in December, while petrol cars' market share dipped to 46pc, data from transport researchers New AutoMotive shows.
Electric cars have grown from less than 3pc of new sales two years ago to 26pc last month amid falling prices and regulations encouraging cleaner transport.
In December Tesla's cars made up 9pc of the market, making it the most popular manufacturer in the UK for the first time since April 2020. VW was on 8pc and Audi 7pc.
It was Tesla's best-ever month for UK sales, with the company making up 36pc of all new electric car purchases.
Last month also saw the market share of electric vehicles reach its second-highest level ever, at 26pc, just under the 33pc seen in April 2020, when car purchases fell to their lowest level since 1946 and Tesla's Model 3 became the most popular new car in the UK.0 -
I think that a lot of these sales are being driven by company car tax rates. Essentially if you can persuade your company to fork out the higher monthly lease cost of the electric car then it is a real perk tax wise and much cheaper than owning a car. Whereas with the diesel and petrol options a car allowance if you don't want a new car is often a better option. Outside company cars only wealthy individuals are buying electric cars as it does not make financial sense.0
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That's fair point in terms of EV's0
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The production cost efficiency of 4680 batteries plus the introduction of the smaller Model 2 for the European market should help in terms of cost.0
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I think the issue with EV's is the battery life. After ten years and a 100k miles there is likely to be either a complete failure or significantly reduced range. These may make the car scrap and therefore it is an asset for which you will receive maybe 1-2k for at the end of life if there is value in the batteries. If not 100 pounds.ddraver said:^^^^That's interesting.
I'm still wondering how they're going to be as second hand cars given that I'd much rather spend my hard-earned on skis and bikes...
I have a 11 year old campervan that has 150k on the clock. It rattles, the interior light sensors on the doors don't work and it is missing bulbs around the heating controls etc. Other than that it works if you want to pay about £500 per year repairing things that either have or are about to fall off. It will probably die eventually or rust will take over in about 5-10 years.
So the crux of the issue is that we are asking people to pay 40-50k for a vehicle that will be worth 1-2k in 10 years time. Most car buyers are in the sub 25k price bracket and not double this and this hard stop is a big issue for most. Those that like cars and status symbols will continue to buy these and those that have more interesting things to buy wont. The company car market is distorting the current market and making people think there is more appetite for electric vehicles that there really is. Don't get me wrong if I was offered a 40-50k EV as a company car I would not take long to bite their hand off. It would likely be the cheapest form of motoring for the last decade the way the current company car tax rate is calculated.0 -
Not a correct understanding of the technology. The evidence to date is that batteries are holding up well over time. And an EV has few moving parts, so our old understanding of a high mileage vehicle will change.
The issue is more that in the next 10 years there might be some big step changes in battery capacity Vs weight, and your latest 2022 EV will be like a 10 year old laptop seems to us now, in 10 year's time.0 -
Basically, put off buying an EV for as long as you can."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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First.Aspect said:
Not a correct understanding of the technology. The evidence to date is that batteries are holding up well over time. And an EV has few moving parts, so our old understanding of a high mileage vehicle will change.
The issue is more that in the next 10 years there might be some big step changes in battery capacity Vs weight, and your latest 2022 EV will be like a 10 year old laptop seems to us now, in 10 year's time.
Tesla will give you a 8 year warranty or 100k miles on the battery whereby it its performance get below 70% they presumably replace it. This is an interesting read.First.Aspect said:Not a correct understanding of the technology. The evidence to date is that batteries are holding up well over time. And an EV has few moving parts, so our old understanding of a high mileage vehicle will change.
The issue is more that in the next 10 years there might be some big step changes in battery capacity Vs weight, and your latest 2022 EV will be like a 10 year old laptop seems to us now, in 10 year's time.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/amp/
So in some aspects you are right that it is more likely to get mechanically to 250k but then there will be diesel taxis that get to this mileage and cost half as much to buy. They also go pretty much the same distance on a tank of fuel from start to finish. If you are happy with reduced range then maybe battery loss over time is not a big deal. I do think you are right regarding battery developments but today's Tesla is pretty good for all but the longest of travellers as even if the range was down to half it would still be a usable car for most.0 -
I've heard that battery capacity is still at about 90% at end of warranty for most Teslas. I you think about it, they are only going to give a warranty that won't cost them much.0
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The same could be said for buying anything though, the next iteration is generally better. Look at car infotainment systems, a couple of years and they are dated. To be honest I would prefer they didn't have them and just had a dock for a Phone or Tablet.Stevo_666 said:Basically, put off buying an EV for as long as you can.
That's one thing with a Tesla, you know they are on the ball in terms of software and you get firmware pushes.0 -
LFP (LifePo4) batteries are even better in terms of recharge cycles and keeping their capacity. The China produced Tesla Model 3 cars are using these. Also it really depends on how people look after their cars, charge between 20-80% and it's a lot less stressful on them akin to charging phones. Granted it depends on the distances people have to generally travel.First.Aspect said:I've heard that battery capacity is still at about 90% at end of warranty for most Teslas. I you think about it, they are only going to give a warranty that won't cost them much.
Chinese battery cell manufacturer Gotion High-Tech confirmed that it entered into a very important deal to supply LFP battery cells to an unnamed “large US automaker” and partner with that automaker to deploy US production of LFP battery cells.https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/tesla-rumored-behind-giant-deal-gotion-bring-lfp-battery-cell-production-us/
Tesla is rumored to be that unnamed automaker.
Currently, there is no US production of iron phosphate (LFP) battery cells and it’s a problem for Tesla, which recently announced it’s transitioning all its “standard range vehicles” to the battery chemistry globally.0 -
True, but this is expensive pioneering. If as expected they will be way better in 10 years and there are very good internal combustion engined cars on the market now, then I still say hold off. That's my strategy for now anyway.focuszing723 said:
The same could be said for buying anything though, the next iteration is generally better. Look at car infotainment systems, a couple of years and they are dated. To be honest I would prefer they didn't have them and just had a dock for a Phone or Tablet.Stevo_666 said:Basically, put off buying an EV for as long as you can.
That's one thing with a Tesla, you know they are on the ball in terms of software and you get firmware pushes.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Bushless motors and batteries have been around for many years too. An electric motor is much simpler than a combustion engine which requires gearing,oil, fiters...
EV's require very little servicing compared to their competition. The only draw back in my mind is the sound of a V8 or that fantastic v10 in a Huracan/R8, love that.
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Why it's important to look after batteries in terms of charge capacity span.0 -
Your last paragraph is another reason why I am keeping my current car for a good will longer. For all the positives of EV's, they will never make a noise like an approaching thunder stormfocuszing723 said:
Bushless motors and batteries have been around for many years too. An electric motor is much simpler than a combustion engine which requires gearing,oil, fiters...
EV's require very little servicing compared to their competition. The only draw back in my mind is the sound of a V8 or that fantastic v10 in a Huracan/R8, love that.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm sure there's at least one kid on t'internet who could prep you a fxxx off impressive soundtrack to let peeps know you're around.Stevo_666 said:
Your last paragraph is another reason why I am keeping my current car for a good will longer. For all the positives of EV's, they will never make a noise like an approaching thunder stormfocuszing723 said:
Bushless motors and batteries have been around for many years too. An electric motor is much simpler than a combustion engine which requires gearing,oil, fiters...
EV's require very little servicing compared to their competition. The only draw back in my mind is the sound of a V8 or that fantastic v10 in a Huracan/R8, love that.
🤔 maybe I should prep some and then flog NFT versions0 -
Yeah, that's fair. This business of pumping in sound through the speakers to meet Euro ncap emissions/regulations is laughable too, a real shame for people buying the current crop of sports cars.Stevo_666 said:
Your last paragraph is another reason why I am keeping my current car for a good will longer. For all the positives of EV's, they will never make a noise like an approaching thunder stormfocuszing723 said:
Bushless motors and batteries have been around for many years too. An electric motor is much simpler than a combustion engine which requires gearing,oil, fiters...
EV's require very little servicing compared to their competition. The only draw back in my mind is the sound of a V8 or that fantastic v10 in a Huracan/R8, love that.0 -
Obviously the best car you can ever have is the hire car when on holiday, tick the box for insurance cover and drive it like your trousers are on fire. To quote JC "Put your foot hard down and just leave it there".
Joking aside I am a full EV convert here! Had a string of good (Toyota MR2/Focus ST) and bad (Suzuki Celerio / Ford KA) cars over the years but came to the conclusion last year that owning a car was stupid - Nothing else of value tends to depreciate so quickly so given the decision to go lease I had a second epiphany - Why pay £1.40 per litre / 15p per mile and £100+ a year tax when for the same monthly amounts I can get something that cost as near as makes no difference 0p per mile.
So got a DS3 Etense fully electric car. 200 miles real world range (170 in winter or driving in sport mode), I can skip 3 miles of daily traffic by using a ULEV/Bus Lane on the way to work (its hilarious seeing the angry faces on Audi drivers), costs me £5 to 'fill' up and that lasts a week or nothing to 'fill' up if I plug in once a week at work.
EV's have lots of torque and it can all be used instantly unlike in a petrol/diesel so for traffic light dashes up to about 40 mph I tend be in front unless its a something like another EV or fast ICE car.
I was sceptical at 1st, I had the usual old view "not enough range" and "takes hours to charge" but its just not the case. Charging my car from 20-80% at home on the home charger takes a few hours or for a few quid the rapid charger at the end of the road takes about 30 mins.
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I don't agree with this at all - older EV's (Nissan Leaf gen 1) had no battery management so no water cooling etc. Even still most still have over 80% battery life after 100k / 10 years (youtube Fully charged for Robert's Nissan leaf as a prime example). The reality is modern EV's deliberately stop you going to zero or full this is why they are listed as "50Kw/h battery - 45Kw/h usable" the battery management system holds back a bit at each end to ensure efficiency and with active cooling/heating the reality is modern EV batteries will last well past 100k and even when they do degrade a bit you simply swap out the cells that are failing - Not the entire battery pack! EV's use 100's or 1000's of cells are strung together. basically loads of laptop batteries connected together.john80 said:
I think the issue with EV's is the battery life. After ten years and a 100k miles there is likely to be either a complete failure or significantly reduced range. These may make the car scrap and therefore it is an asset for which you will receive maybe 1-2k for at the end of life if there is value in the batteries. If not 100 pounds.ddraver said:^^^^That's interesting.
I'm still wondering how they're going to be as second hand cars given that I'd much rather spend my hard-earned on skis and bikes...
I have a 11 year old campervan that has 150k on the clock. It rattles, the interior light sensors on the doors don't work and it is missing bulbs around the heating controls etc. Other than that it works if you want to pay about £500 per year repairing things that either have or are about to fall off. It will probably die eventually or rust will take over in about 5-10 years.
So the crux of the issue is that we are asking people to pay 40-50k for a vehicle that will be worth 1-2k in 10 years time. Most car buyers are in the sub 25k price bracket and not double this and this hard stop is a big issue for most. Those that like cars and status symbols will continue to buy these and those that have more interesting things to buy wont. The company car market is distorting the current market and making people think there is more appetite for electric vehicles that there really is. Don't get me wrong if I was offered a 40-50k EV as a company car I would not take long to bite their hand off. It would likely be the cheapest form of motoring for the last decade the way the current company car tax rate is calculated.
To go back to the Fully Charged / Nissan Leaf point above. On the fully charged show Robert paid £4k for a upgraded battery pack on his 11 year old leaf and it now has TWICE the range it had originally and again this is worse case scenario.
My EV has an 8 year warranty on the battery with no mileage limit listed - if after 8 years it holds less than 80% of its original charge its swapped for free.
And if after 8-10 years a EV owner needs to pay a grand or two to restore the failing cells they will be left with a car that has essentially the same engine as when it was new.
A 10 year old petrol or diesel car with high mileage will almost certainly have gone through numerous parts (clutch / dozens of oil changes / spark plugs / fan belts / coil packs / exhausts / sensors / possibly a gearbox etc etc - That lot will probably cost more over the years than the few grand for new battery cells. Not to mention that EV's tend to wear brakes and pads less (due to regen braking) and the saving for road tax each year, my last mid spec petrol car was £150 a year x 10 years means I would be saving £1500 just on tax (assuming EVs stay tax free).0 -
Piped engine noise? I'll stick with the real thingorraloon said:
I'm sure there's at least one kid on t'internet who could prep you a fxxx off impressive soundtrack to let peeps know you're around.Stevo_666 said:
Your last paragraph is another reason why I am keeping my current car for a good will longer. For all the positives of EV's, they will never make a noise like an approaching thunder stormfocuszing723 said:
Bushless motors and batteries have been around for many years too. An electric motor is much simpler than a combustion engine which requires gearing,oil, fiters...
EV's require very little servicing compared to their competition. The only draw back in my mind is the sound of a V8 or that fantastic v10 in a Huracan/R8, love that.
🤔 maybe I should prep some and then flog NFT versions
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
