Cars, cars, cars...

shirley_basso

I'm not sure it was 'so much smarter' by red bull. They had the advantage of being in second place so had the opportunity to play tactics.

focuszing723

That's truly bloody graceful from Hamilton regarding his interview.

focuszing723

Oi, I haven't forgot you Johnson and your mass of Christmas parties mind!

pblakeney

shirley_basso said:

I'm not sure it was 'so much smarter' by red bull. They had the advantage of being in second place so had the opportunity to play tactics.

It wasn't so much smart as it was a gamble that paid off.
Easy to make the call when you have nothing to lose.

First.Aspect

Aaand it's been protested.

Inevitable result of missing out a clear lap behind the safety car after unlapping, and also allowing an arbitrary subset of cars to unlap themselves.

Making up rules on the fly.

Would not be surprised to see this run all winter and go to CAS. Last time this happened was when Senna cut the chicane at Suzuka and then FIA head Balestre decided he would make up a rule about finishing the whole race distance.

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

Aaand it's been protested.

Inevitable result of missing out a clear lap behind the safety car after unlapping, and also allowing an arbitrary subset of cars to unlap themselves.

Making up rules on the fly.

Would not be surprised to see this run all winter and go to CAS. Last time this happened was when Senna cut the chicane at Suzuka and then FIA head Balestre decided he would make up a rule about finishing the whole race distance.

I hate F1 anyway, but reading the Graun live feed, it looks like a completely manufactured ending. They might as well have decided it with a one-lap race. Well, that's what it was, I suppose.

First.Aspect

I love F1, but I always hated US motorsport, because they would arbitrarily throw yellow flags. I don't think I ever watched an indycar race that didn't have some last lap jeopardy.

Now the Americans own F1 and we have the same thing.

Starting with making an unfixable regulation change before the only season where manufacturers couldn't create new cars. Just spice things up a bit.

Finishing with brake testing on a live race circuit being a slap on the wrist, followed by the farce this evening.

photonic69

Really enjoyed today’s F1 finale. Think Max deserved the win. The first and last lap incidents evened out. I’m a Lewis fan, but today’s race was a bit of a farce. Roll on 2022.

focuszing723

photonic69 said:

Really enjoyed today’s F1 finale. Think Max deserved the win. The first and last lap incidents evened out. I’m a Lewis fan, but today’s race was a bit of a farce. Roll on 2022.

I don't get that, Hamilton was leading the race from the start and until the last lap (start to almost finish). I will give you the benefit of the doubt and agree both incidents cancelled each other out, then go on to say your are a Hamilton fan.

Ummm, you think Verstappen deserved to win?

DeVlaeminck

First complete race I've watched in a while - it really is a complete bulls-hit ending - bit like a football team being 3-0 up giving the opposition a penalty and them saying next goal wins.

focuszing723

DeVlaeminck said:

First complete race I've watched in a while - it really is a complete bulls-hit ending - bit like a football team being 3-0 up giving the opposition a penalty and them saying next goal wins.

Yeah, it kind of reminded me of matches before VAR.

First.Aspect

It is desparately bad for the sport, which is going to find itself struggling for relevance the more electrified we go. Today was a rare opportunity to showcase itself as being exciting sport if nothing else. I am sure lots of casual watchers found it entertaining, but didn't really understand what was going on. That's because watchers of 30 years didn't either. That's just not a good thing. It is like WWE.

focuszing723

First.Aspect said:

It is desparately bad for the sport, which is going to find itself struggling for relevance the more electrified we go. Today was a rare opportunity to showcase itself as being exciting sport if nothing else. I am sure lots of casual watchers found it entertaining, but didn't really understand what was going on. That's because watchers of 30 years didn't either. That's just not a good thing. It is like WWE.

Current regulations see cars running on fuel containing 5.75% bio-components.

And while F1 is still working hard to introduce fully sustainable fuel in the near-future, 2022 will see the bio-component ratio rise to 10%. That will be achieved through a move to ‘E10 fuel’ – ‘E’ standing for ethanol, while ‘10’ refers to its percentage in the mixture.

Crucially, though, that ethanol must be a second generation biofuel made in a sustainable way, meaning it will have a near-zero carbon footprint – an “interim step”, in the words of Formula 1’s Chief Technical Officer Pat Symonds, which will also help the sport align with current road car fuel regulations.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-all-new-2022-f1-car.4OLg8DrXyzHzdoGrbqp6ye.html

Yes, they need to get on top of the rules so people can understand them and they seem fair.

Going down the bio fuels route make sense to me.

First.Aspect

focuszing723 said:

First.Aspect said:

It is desparately bad for the sport, which is going to find itself struggling for relevance the more electrified we go. Today was a rare opportunity to showcase itself as being exciting sport if nothing else. I am sure lots of casual watchers found it entertaining, but didn't really understand what was going on. That's because watchers of 30 years didn't either. That's just not a good thing. It is like WWE.

Current regulations see cars running on fuel containing 5.75% bio-components.

And while F1 is still working hard to introduce fully sustainable fuel in the near-future, 2022 will see the bio-component ratio rise to 10%. That will be achieved through a move to ‘E10 fuel’ – ‘E’ standing for ethanol, while ‘10’ refers to its percentage in the mixture.

Crucially, though, that ethanol must be a second generation biofuel made in a sustainable way, meaning it will have a near-zero carbon footprint – an “interim step”, in the words of Formula 1’s Chief Technical Officer Pat Symonds, which will also help the sport align with current road car fuel regulations.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-all-new-2022-f1-car.4OLg8DrXyzHzdoGrbqp6ye.html

Yes, they need to get on top of the rules so people can understand them and they seem fair.

Going down the bio fuels route make sense to me.

It's the only way to avoid turning off the current eco aware generation, but biofuels aren't a scalable transport solution and so F1 will lose that perceived link to relevance for road cars. (big debate on that ever being the case, mind you).

The point being that if the engines in your car have nothing in common with the engines in the race car wearing the same badge, F1 had better made damn sure it is at least good sport.

Right now, it isn't.

focuszing723

That's true, I do think the sound of the engines adds to it though.

Pross

Sums the sport up that Mercedes actually turned up at the race with a barrister 'just in case'.

shirley_basso

Sounds sensible in hindsight.

ddraver

Hmm, it's felt like this year was the year the Drive to Survive audience really kicked in and started to watch the races.

I don't think this will help keep them watching...

First.Aspect

ddraver said:

Hmm, it's felt like this year was the year the Drive to Survive audience really kicked in and started to watch the races.

I don't think this will help keep them watching...

Couldn't agree more. I've followed this sport assiduously for decades and I'm pretty down on it right now. Is watching Romain Grosjean in indycars going to be more satisfying? Possibly it is.

focuszing723

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1470108100862619653

First.Aspect

Their reasoning is interesting, giving precedence to one rule that was applied before the other rule was complied with. Mercs legal team will go to town on that. The decision also explicitly acknowledges that the previous rule wasnt followed.

I think they will appeal this all the way. This just smacks of today's stewards not wanting to get involved.

Pross

Always find it amusing when the people who make a ruling have to decide whether to uphold a challenge to that ruling.

When the High Court dismissed a case bought by the rugby club I support the judges basically said the governing body were free to make the rules and whilst changing them mid season was unfair it was up to them.

focuszing723

It does seem unfair to me given Hamilton was leading the race from almost start to finish. If it wasn't for that crash and safety car it would have been his (ahh, what if's).

First.Aspect

Pross said:

Always find it amusing when the people who make a ruling have to decide whether to uphold a challenge to that ruling.

When the High Court dismissed a case bought by the rugby club I support the judges basically said the governing body were free to make the rules and whilst changing them mid season was unfair it was up to them.

It isn't quite the same as changing the rules half way through the game though.

Next step is appeal to the FIA, who will reject the appeal. The FIA have a history of making champion who they want to be champion.

After that almost certainly it will go to CAS, who hypothetically are there to uphold sporting integrity. CAS do have jurisdiction, whereas the HC in your case probably didn't.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

ddraver said:

Hmm, it's felt like this year was the year the Drive to Survive audience really kicked in and started to watch the races.

I don't think this will help keep them watching...

Couldn't agree more. I've followed this sport assiduously for decades and I'm pretty down on it right now. Is watching Romain Grosjean in indycars going to be more satisfying? Possibly it is.

I followed it very closely from 1995 but gave up in 2018 after I gave up on sky sports and didn’t think it was worth the faff anymore.

I was so keen that up until around 2012 or so I’d actually wake up for the eastern raves to watch them live.

I love racing, especially tactical racing, hence F1 and cycling, but I struggled with the contrived drs stuff and “overtake boost” stuff.

It seems they’ve added some more interesting tracks since > late 00s was especially bland.

I also lost patience with the lack of wet weather racing - any proper rain and it’s just called off.

This was exciting but it’s quite easy to see it as quite contrived which left a bitter taste.

There does seem to be a lot of jury involvement with every move, but maybe I am too positive about the past.

I am a Ferrari fan so I was pretty chill about the early 00s.

rick_chasey

And for the record, Lewis’ first world champ was won on the final *corner* let alone the final lap.

Massa crossed the finish line as world champion only for Lewis to make up the place on the last order to clinch it.

Man I was sick that day.

I assume it was that that helped Lewis be so gracious today.

focuszing723

focuszing723 said:

Damn, and will Hamilton be out of the big one now, SPOTY?

Yep, he's not on the shortlist, nightmare!

pinno

Lizzie Deignan for SPOTY. What she did was class, pain and determination (as if that will happen).

briantrumpet

I probably shouldn't laugh.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59641534

Hahahahaha.

pinno

briantrumpet said:

I probably shouldn't laugh.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59641534

Hahahahaha.

Yeeha!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-norfolk-49206600